A bit of an observation from a sudo-developer to devs and Players

[gamersglory]

So a bit of an observation I've made and some things I have noticed that don't make a lot of sense. Yes, I work with Ptolemy but first off these are my thoughts and not his. The first thing that gets me is Devs having a $1 support level on Patreon. Let's be honest you never really get anything for it and Devs after the BS and fees from Patreon it only adds up to a few cents after that my advice is to get rid of that tier. if you want to do dollar donations get an account with

You must be registered to see the links

that way it's only a 1% overall fee so you get more out of the donation. Also, something I've learned from Ptolemy is don't hold out on game material and make high priced Special versions with more content just to milk it. As he would tell me why set on Content and material if I can't give it to all my Regular supporters at the same time. It's just stupid and makes you look greedy. I don't make any money off of doing what I do as any of the money I make goes to power bills and other bills so I don't profit from it and to be honest if I did make a profit I would use it to upgrade or build a new better rig for rendering so I could step up quality and quantity. I do this because I enjoy hearing compliments and enjoy running renders as it gives me something to do. That being said I love how supportive the Developer community can be with new devs wanting to start out and while sites like F95 can be a bit of a blessing and a curse. I know that everyone here is passionate about the games and that's what I love about this community

 

[Domiek]

The first thing that gets me is Devs having a $1 support level on Patreon. Let's be honest you never really get anything for it and Devs after the BS and fees from Patreon it only adds up to a few cents after that my advice is to get rid of that tier.

I agree, the $1 pledge takes a big cut and there usually isn't a big reward for the patron. However since Patreon is enforcing all NSFW content be hidden from public, the $1 tier serves the purpose of NSFW previews of content that's being developed.

don't hold out on game material and make high priced Special versions with more content just to milk it. As he would tell me why set on Content and material if I can't give it to all my Regular supporters at the same time. It's just stupid and makes you look greedy.

I agree. I absolutely don't understand how someone can finish an update, release it 2 weeks early and call it an "early release". Let's be real, this is an artificially delayed release for lower tiered supporters. Same with the special versions. Seems unfair to dedicate a huge part of your monthly development time towards higher paid tiers while snubbing your other supporters who are usually the bread and butter of your income anyways.

Having said that, it seems most financially successful games here have some form of "early release" tier. I don't like it and refuse to do it but the fact of the matter is that people still pledge to it. Maybe they would pledge regardless of the early release or not simply to support the game and I'm just coming up with excuses for my low pledge numbers?

 

[gamersglory]

@Domiek You can use

You must be registered to see the links

as a pay gate for that stuff as well. They only take 1%. Just have a blog you can host it on outside of Patreon

 

[RogueKnightUK]

An observation often has more weight when you're certain the observer knows the difference between 'pseudo' and 'sudoku' Come on, if a point is worth making, then it is worth making the effort to make it well.

To be completely honest, I see variations on the same underlying issue in almost every endeavor people can have to make money.

I've seen people write books without ever bothering to research the fact that having a published book, even one that sells well, isn't what makes the money. You make the money either from getting signed to a contract for X number of sequels, from TV, Radio or Movie studios buying the rights to adapt the book, or most commonly, from getting to do paid speaking or signing gigs. You actually lose money on a single successful book. I kid you not.

I've seen (first hand) entire companies built around ridiculously flawed expectations. Some of them manage to get tens of millions of dollars from venture capitalists even, and fail simply because they failed to understand the basic laws of supply and demand.

Here's the simplest form I can make the basic first law of supply and demand: You don't automatically get market share by having a product as good as everyone else's. If it is only as good, then why would they switch from the supply and supplier they already have a relationship with, trust in, and have invested time into getting used to?

You also don't win market share by being a bit better than whatever they already buy, use, etc. You actually need to be 'better' in 3 or more separate regards to actually get people to switch their limited budget from what it already gets spent on, to ditching something to buy your product instead.

If you want Patreon donations, then you have to aim at creating something that makes them decide to switch from supporting something else to supporting you. And when you consider that they already are sure of what they get from the thing they already support while you'll be an unknown (whatever you promise, it's not like nobody ever didn't deliver what was promised before), and that people can feel guilt over stopping supporting something, you start to understand the reason you have to be better on 3 separate fronts.

Now, it is possible to attract first time Patreons. People who don't support a lot of other stuff and have some spare cash ... but honestly, ask yourself, how often in life have you gone around thinking to yourself, "Oh, I have way more money than I need, and nothing left to spend it on - I should go find a developer on Patreon". Never? Right.

The biggest market are people already prepared (and proven) to support game devs on Patreon, which means they are already doing it. If you can't convince those people to switch their budget, which is limited by their income, to supporting you instead of what they already do, then you are dealing with a very specific, very small sub-set of the market. Patreon virgins who have more money than things to support.

 

[Urok]

This is a quite interesting topic for me, as I am already in the middle of my game development process and I'm starting to think about the tiers I'd like to include. So far I'm looking at the successful games out there and follow their models with some small tweaks.

 

[gamersglory]

In some cases, you try to get some devs to change things but they just don't want to or Know-how too. Some developers are not really good at communication and updating there Patreon but make a good game. Having one of your games hit the top list on F95 causes a curse in a piracy upsurge. Mind you we are not an Indie studio where just a couple of people who make games for fun but would like to see is our work rewarded to the point they pay for themselves and maybe a few upgrades to our rigs. Not that I see much of it myself.

 

[RogueKnightUK]

Having one of your games hit the top list on F95 causes a curse in a piracy upsurge.

The two things aren't actually related.

You don't buy games on Patreon - you choose to sponsor a developer. It's all about the support, not the product. Piracy is all about the product. Piracy would affect sales on Steam, certainly. But if it is affecting sponsorship levels in a negative sense, then it is absolutely a sign that the devs were trying the wrong monetization method - trying to rent out the game for a forever-recurring monthly sum, and not actually engendering support for their work itself, only for it's product.

To do well on Patreon, you absolutely need to be focusing on the relationship between the artists and their patrons. Properly letting Patrons know that they are supporting artists, and what that support means. It's personal.

Or put an even simpler way, piracy simply steals what you already produced. Patreon isn't there to sell what you already produced at all - it's entire purpose is to let people sponsor you for what you will produce in future. Patreons give money to support what you have not yet created, not what you have.

The only effect of piracy on patronage is wider publicity, exposure, and word of mouth. If you aren't converting that added exposure to support, that's not the fault of the piracy...

 

[gamersglory]

The two things aren't actually related.

You don't buy games on Patreon - you choose to sponsor a developer. It's all about the support, not the product. Piracy is all about the product. Piracy would affect sales on Steam, certainly. But if it is affecting sponsorship levels in a negative sense, then it is absolutely a sign that the devs were trying the wrong monetization method - trying to rent out the game for a forever-recurring monthly sum, and not actually engendering support for their work itself, only for it's product.

To do well on Patreon, you absolutely need to be focusing on the relationship between the artists and their patrons. Properly letting Patrons know that they are supporting artists, and what that support means. It's personal.

Or put an even simpler way, piracy simply steals what you already produced. Patreon isn't there to sell what you already produced at all - it's entire purpose is to let people sponsor you for what you will produce in future. Patreons give money to support what you have not yet created, not what you have.

The only effect of piracy on patronage is wider publicity, exposure, and word of mouth. If you aren't converting that added exposure to support, that's not the fault of the piracy...

Your logic seems flawed as the whole point of Patreon is to Monetize your content why do you think game devs have different levels of support to lock people out of content they did not pay for. Also the view that I have gotten from most devs I talk to is the modal we use on Patreon is a Software as a service Payment modal where the end user has no ownership over the game. there copy of the game is rented and each subscription payment is a license for 30 days of use. If there was no intent to monetize then they can use a blog or F95 directly. We don't use DRM because of the expense. Same reason we don't issue DMCA takedowns cost.

 

[RogueKnightUK]

Your logic seems flawed as the whole point of Patreon is to Monetize your content why do you think game devs have different levels of support to lock people out of content they did not pay for. Also the view that I have gotten from most devs I talk to is the modal we use on Patreon is a Software as a service Payment modal where the end user has no ownership over the game. there copy of the game is rented and each subscription payment is a license for 30 days of use. If there was no intent to monetize then they can use a blog or F95 directly. We don't use DRM because of the expense. Same reason we don't issue DMCA takedowns cost.

No, my logic is simply more logical.

You're basing yours on what the platform itself is capable of and has the buttons for. That's fairly typical for a programmer-like mindset, and not at all uncommon or anything to be ashamed of, so don't take it as a put down.

I'm a marketing geek. It means that I look at things more from the perspective of the psychology of the actual customers, because that's where the actual money comes from. I don't so much care what the platform does, other than where it can marry up with what the actual customers want, and where it really doesn't.

Patreon, as a platform, is simply a twist on the ideas of Kickstarter, GoFundMe, etc, where the developers (not one of them with a degree in psychology or a long history in sales and marketing) thought of how to turn it into a recurring fee platform for patronage. It's a useful twist, and thus is doing okay. The users getting the most out of it are the ones using it in the ways that connect with what customers want to achieve - which is the psychology side.

Now, SAAS for games is a tricky and complex issue, and there are way, way more failures than successes. In fact, the entire gaming industry was turned upside down by, in particular, World of Warcraft, and the obsession companies suddenly all felt to try to copy and emulate it's success. And not one single game, even those with billion-dollar backing, has ever managed to actually rival it.

The SAAS model absolutely depends on the Freemium model. Free to Play, but paid membership gets you extras of various kinds, mostly around quality of life and speed of progression, and that in turn depends on being MMO - massively multiplayer, where all those free accounts actually add value to the experience of those who pay (even if only by giving them more trade options, more targets, etc).

Can you think of a single example of a successful game studio using SAAS for a non-multiplayer game? I honestly can't.

 

[W65]

Patreon really isn't pitched to be a distribution platform... but adult game purveyors don't exactly have a lot of options.