A much needed discussion about incest games.

[wewlad]

I'm looking for a discussion on the current trend of incest games that i've been seeing and i'm honestly curious if i'm alone in thinking what I think because as it stands, these recent incest games are straight fucking garbage in my opinion.

I've always said and will continue to always say, that good incest, no matter the medium (obviously from a fetish perspective), has to have fucking build up.

This is partly why I am just absolutely disinterested in hentai games/doujins featuring this fetish. They pretty much skip the build up entirely with it going something like this:

"Hey mom, my penis hurts can you do something to it?"
"Oh son, it's wrong!"
"But MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM"
"Ok honey, just this once!"

Now I know this is a total strawman but what I find hilarious is that this isn't even an exaggeration. Go read any doujin, play any hentai game and that's almost exactly what happens.

The problem is I am now noticing this in the recent slew of 3D games we've been getting. They just skimp out on the build up or they attempt it for 2~ minutes and then just go "fuck that" and skip to the sex.

If anyone notices the most popular incest games, they at least TRY to have some build up. Dreams of Desire, Big Brother, Dating My Daughter. So this fact has me optimistic.

When I say build up, I don't just mean a few "romantic scenes" before the sex (which is sadly, pretty much the best case scenario for most games these days). I mean actual build up. Take Mother-Son games for instance. I genuinely feel that people need their games to show their interactions as just that, Mother and Son. Have the son do chores, get help with his homework etc, have them engage in non sexual attractions first. Have them "living" with each other and let the attraction gradually build up. Because if you start off your game and skip this part, then i'm left there just wondering "why did they wait this long before having sex anyway if they don't even acknowledge how taboo and wrong it is?". Have something change the dynamics of their relationship, like the son catching the mother wearing a thong or something like that, something that makes him think "Holy shit, she's actually has a nice ass".

The only way you can successfully avoid that aspect is by doing what "Dating My Daughter" did, which is have the Parent not see their child for a while and then reunite with them once they've "grown up". Only then can you successfully avoid the "living together" part.

So what do you all think? Is this just lazy developers? Do the majority not care about build up? With the slew of recent Incest games that i'm seeing that absolutely skip out on the "build up", you would think I was alone in thinking this but seeing how successful Dating My Daughter is (which is literally nothing but build up), I know that this simply isn't the case.

Do you all agree? Do you all disagree? Do you "somewhat agree"? Looking forward to seeing what you guys think.


TL;DR - Build up in Incest games is arguably the most important thing and i'm absolutely sick over how most Incest games don't acknowledge that

 

[polywog]

I support you in your quest, but there's no needle in your haystack. DMD broke new ground, injecting romantic fantasy into an incest story, which is why it's so popular, but it is fantasy far removed from reality. Mr Dots has thus far only hinted at how vile the girl's Mother is, and the horrible abuse she inflicted, which caused Allie to be the way she is at the present time-in-game. So while there is some build up between the characters, even this story skipped, what you and I might call "the good part" and jumped right into the more common male-female incest, that others are looking for.

 

[Malkav]

I see your point. Anyone who plays erotic games has to agree that some sort of build up pays off with a larger reward. Why else would we play games instead of just watching a pornographic movie.

You also have to acknowledge that reading / playing about chores and daily life runs the risk of being incredibly boring. That is why I prefer a grindy / strategic element with constant, gradually, increasing rewards.

You use dating my daughter as an example. This game has no value to me, as I know there is no payoff, yet. The patreon model requires you to have something to show, which I suspect can be a cause of the lacking build up experience you mention, since no one would back a game that was still just basically text.

 

[styggtuff12]

You use dating my daughter as an example. This game has no value to me, as I know there is no payoff, yet. The patreon model requires you to have something to show, which I suspect can be a cause of the lacking build up experience you mention, since no one would back a game that was still just basically text.

i was on the DMD hype train and really liking it until the dev said fuck you and retconned the daughter and the dad actually developing their relationship further. they had good buildup but then just a big middle finger from the dev.

 

[MantisK]

Well, incest, like any sex, involves people (at least) and inklings of sexuality and desire may lay dormant for long periods. This gives us the movie perspective, you just happen to begin your telling of the story towards the middle with a build towards a climax, throw in a sprinkle of random life and friends, shake and pour into hard drive.
But, incest is like any other sex, except for who exactly is participating. It still requires comforting, nudging and courting.

 

[Mark600601]

i was on the DMD hype train and really liking it until the dev said fuck you and retconned the daughter and the dad actually developing their relationship further. they had good buildup but then just a big middle finger from the dev.

Im not sure what youre referring to when you say he retconned the relationship and stopped it from developing further.
Even the last 2 steps have had huge steps in the relationship developing between the dad and daughter.
Probably the biggest steps ive seen tbh.

 

[LeopoldWilliamReynolds]

You're absolutely right in that these games are fucking stupid without build up, but the reason so many developers don't work at it is because development of these games takes an enormous amount of time for people who are operating at their level and many people don't have the patience to wait a full year to see a handjob, regardless of how tantalizing the buildup was to begin with. That's why games that people general consider to be well made are bombarded with idiots screaming "milking!" every time an update comes out that doesn't let you fuck a family member in the ass within the first 15 seconds.

For some the vehicle of incest is unimportant to their main goal, which is to see some PIV sex with a hot looking character. There are plenty of games that let you do that, but everyone wants every game to be tailored to their individual interests (without paying for it of course). However incest as a fetish doesn't work without the real world implications of breaking a taboo. Without that taboo, it's just a game of trying to seduce someone who you see fairly often. It would work with a classmate or a neighbor too, but family is easier because you can lure in the incest demographic too.

However, for incest, the key is taboo. Familial relation as an object of sexual attraction is fairly unimportant actually. I like incest games, but I'm not interested in fucking any of my family members, the family part of it isn't as important as the taboo and subverting it. People are not going to stop complaining though, and devs aren't going to start caring about the integrity of the product when they rely on hooking in viewers in the early stages of development just to keep the project going. DMD launched a wave, but the reason it was successful was because it had compelling characters, good graphics, and established a deep dynamic between the main character and the daughter that blossomed beautifully as the game expanded. This is hard to do. Additionally, THIS WOULD HAVE LITERALLY BEEN IMPOSSIBLE IF YOU FUCKED THE DAUGHTER FIVE DAYS INTO THE STORY. Some people don't get that, and until they do, developers are not going to find it feasible to make games like this. People forget but even in Dating my Daughter the game progressed at a slightly faster pace, and in multiple updates the developers went back and retconned some of the relationship progression to make it go a little bit slower. Maintaining an organic feel is a necessity for this type of game to work.

 

[styggtuff12]

Im not sure what youre referring to when you say he retconned the relationship and stopped it from developing further.
Even the last 2 steps have had huge steps in the relationship developing between the dad and daughter.
Probably the biggest steps ive seen tbh.

either in 0.9 or 0.10, at the end of it the daughter ask you if you would like to date for real and you agree. huge step forward right? but i guess the dev thought he would lose out on to many shekels if that happened to when the next episode came out the last 2-3 min worth of gameplay was removed, including the asking out scene and it was instead replace with them just talking.

after that i quit playing, fuck the dev for doing that. its not the end goal, theres no reason to think everyone would stop supporting him on patreon just because the dating finally started, its not even the halfway point.

 

[polywog]

There are basically two types of fap game. Heathen, and Catholic. The hedonistic click-fuck, or the "you must pay for your sins before you masturbate" grindy game. I was raised Catholic, before I was excommunicated, so I know the drill, both ways. You're asking for a catholic style game but disrespecting Mary at the same time, and I don't see that happening, any time soon.

 

[Mark600601]

either in 0.9 or 0.10, at the end of it the daughter ask you if you would like to date for real and you agree. huge step forward right? but i guess the dev thought he would lose out on to many shekels if that happened to when the next episode came out the last 2-3 min worth of gameplay was removed, including the asking out scene and it was instead replace with them just talking.

after that i quit playing, fuck the dev for doing that. its not the end goal, theres no reason to think everyone would stop supporting him on patreon just because the dating finally started, its not even the halfway point.

They do starting "dating" tho. Kind of a non sexual casual thing. They act like bf gf when alone or away from people they know just without anything past 2nd base.
Its safe to assume itll start to move farther than that as well. Hes made it clear from the very beginning its going to be a slow burn game

 

[there]

I'm looking for a discussion on the current trend of incest games that i've been seeing and i'm honestly curious if i'm alone in thinking what I think because as it stands, these recent incest games are straight fucking garbage in my opinion.

I've always said and will continue to always say, that good incest, no matter the medium (obviously from a fetish perspective), has to have fucking build up.

This is partly why I am just absolutely disinterested in hentai games/doujins featuring this fetish. They pretty much skip the build up entirely with it going something like this:

"Hey mom, my penis hurts can you do something to it?"
"Oh son, it's wrong!"
"But MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM"
"Ok honey, just this once!"

Now I know this is a total strawman but what I find hilarious is that this isn't even an exaggeration. Go read any doujin, play any hentai game and that's almost exactly what happens.

The problem is I am now noticing this in the recent slew of 3D games we've been getting. They just skimp out on the build up or they attempt it for 2~ minutes and then just go "fuck that" and skip to the sex.

If anyone notices the most popular incest games, they at least TRY to have some build up. Dreams of Desire, Big Brother, Dating My Daughter. So this fact has me optimistic.

When I say build up, I don't just mean a few "romantic scenes" before the sex (which is sadly, pretty much the best case scenario for most games these days). I mean actual build up. Take Mother-Son games for instance. I genuinely feel that people need their games to show their interactions as just that, Mother and Son. Have the son do chores, get help with his homework etc, have them engage in non sexual attractions first. Have them "living" with each other and let the attraction gradually build up. Because if you start off your game and skip this part, then i'm left there just wondering "why did they wait this long before having sex anyway if they don't even acknowledge how taboo and wrong it is?". Have something change the dynamics of their relationship, like the son catching the mother wearing a thong or something like that, something that makes him think "Holy shit, she's actually has a nice ass".

The only way you can successfully avoid that aspect is by doing what "Dating My Daughter" did, which is have the Parent not see their child for a while and then reunite with them once they've "grown up". Only then can you successfully avoid the "living together" part.

So what do you all think? Is this just lazy developers? Do the majority not care about build up? With the slew of recent Incest games that i'm seeing that absolutely skip out on the "build up", you would think I was alone in thinking this but seeing how successful Dating My Daughter is (which is literally nothing but build up), I know that this simply isn't the case.

Do you all agree? Do you all disagree? Do you "somewhat agree"? Looking forward to seeing what you guys think.


TL;DR - Build up in Incest games is arguably the most important thing and i'm absolutely sick over how most Incest games don't acknowledge that

Honestly, what I really care for is true romance in such cases. I do not care that they jump right into the incest but what I care for is that the person is truly able to love the mother or the incest member as a family member and a romantic partner.

I hate it when you see in such incest hentai games/doujins the main character treats the partner as a throwable fuck toy because I feel that you would only go so far as to commit incest if you love the person very much and also because you cannot do something so casually otherwise. Therefore, if in such incest hentai games/doujins they incorporate why they love the person so much well enough and show just how far are they willing to go for them other then just having sex, then I am happy.

 

[Walt Dee]

I'd say there are some that drag out the build up waaay too long (cough! Big Brother!), others that are just creating novels just to jerk off themselves or they think they'll attract Patreons, and then there are a handful who actually try to pen meaningful visual novels. I'd include Dating My Daughter, Dreaming of Dana, and Summertime Saga in that category.

I'm starting to look at the version numbers and read the reviews well before I decide to download.

 

[Adoringfan]

@polywog Sexy games come in two varieties: eroge or nukige. Eroges are a visual novel where story is prioritized over cgs. Nukige literally means masturbation aid, these games prioritze sex over story and try to cram as much sex into every scene as possible.

My take on everything is there are a lot of devs that are just lazy when it comes to story. Many of them will abuse plot devices in place of buildup or development. Most characters are one dimensional fuck dolls that I could care less about. Basically everything is awful, most devs suck and fuck socialism.

Anyway, I think instead of us sitting around bellyaching about how shitty things are, folks could start getting involved more. Try to help newer developers where you can, when you can, because these rookies are going to be the ones making the games you'll be playing in the near future, or hell, start your own project even. Maybe we aught to focus less on the bad and try to think on how we can improve it? Just my take on it.

 

[polywog]

@Adoringfan
blurring weg with Japan? All Japaneses stories are incest, it's not even called incest it's just called normal.

 

[polywog]

New weg genre unlike anything before. Not a typical incest story, but stories catering to children who didn't have fathers in the home. Single mom, divorced, unwed mother, whatever the reason... Big brother is a good example, if it weren't for Eric mom would be "available" how dare he... If it were a Japanese story, mom would bow to max and call him master, simply because he's male. but due to feminism and equal rights in the west... males aren't master anymore. so these young western males are being abused by their feminist mothers and there's no male in the house to defend them.

from a young age the boy begins questioning, "why mommy, why don't you love me?" hid desire for romance grows over the years, and all the while seeking approval of his mother which he will never get simply because he's "a male"
we will call this new genre femincest. an intense desire to be loved by one's mother, that will never happen, because he was born with a penis. the only way his feminist mother could love him, is if he underwent a transformation of some kind.

Animal perhaps? unwed mother feminists are capable of having pursedogs are they not.... but are they dogs loved?
Dress as a girl, so mom can love you? might work getting breast implants might make her jealous tho

 

[OhWee]

I'm going do disagree with a statement here. I don't feel like Dating My Daughter has broken any new ground. Sure, it's a quality product, but we had incest games long before it appeared on the scene.

Sure, until recently a number of these games were 'text based', some with images, and there are more traditional VNs as well. But the Japanese porn community has been obsessed with this subject for a long time now, and I've seen some pretty hot stories long before it became fashionable in western erotic games. And I remember playing a few 'romantic-based' incest stories several years before I ever discovered DMD.

On a somewhat unrelated note, I watched some video from some Japanese game show where the guy would fuck his relatives without being able to see their faces (just their asses), and then have to guess which relative he was fucking. Yeah, they get pretty bizarre sometimes in Japanese porn (it was hot to watch though, of course). Heck, they're doing porn game shows!!! I wouldn't mind seeing more of that here in the US, I have to admit (porn game shows).

----

As for the subject of this thread, i think Mantisk has it right. You are generally beginning at the 'middle' of these stories. In order to truly start at the beginning (as far as being interested in your sister, etc.), well you'd probably have to start when they are two years old and play out the next 16 years, which of course would violate several laws even if they didn't do anything sexual (because you would have included a child in your porn game).

So I don't mind 'shortcutting' things a bit, as the two of you may have already developed a very close relationship. I view the start of the story as the point when something 'clicks' that changes how the two of you feel about each other.

DMD did the 'estranged daughter' thing, so it makes sense to have a more gradual build up in that case. But, like others, nothing annoys me more than story revisions between updates, especially when it's becoming more and more obvious that they are being done solely to 'keep people on the hook'... in my case, all this has done has burned me out on DMD for a bit.

One thing that I will agree on, for erotic games in general, is that I'm not a fan of 'wham bam thank you ma'am', where shortcuts are used. Thinking serums, spells, that sort of thing. If these concepts are done right, I don't mind them (thinking Dreams of Desire here, I like how that is progressing, even though I dislike creepydude), but if they simply unlock activities without much backstory, and no serious attempt to represent a relationship outside of the 'mind-control widget' framework, yeah I lose interest.

But, this is the cool new way to make bucks using Patreon, so we are going to get a lot of fluff now, along with a few gems of course. The sheer number of games that have threads on this forum, which has been around for only a little over a year now, speak to that fact.

It's all fantasy anyways. Mainly I'm looking for hot 3d imagery these days, with a hot story to go along with the images to help add context, and make the visual story more titillating... Dragging out the buildup to the sexy 3d stuff too much just annoys me. On the opposite spectrum, if the story is weak, yeah I'll lose interest. It's a balancing act.

So yeah, I do agree that some developers should work on developing more immersive stories, and maybe on not being so greedy in some cases, but some people just won't have the 'knack' for this. It's a skill, after all.

 

[polywog]

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[LeopoldWilliamReynolds]

New weg genre unlike anything before. Not a typical incest story, but stories catering to children who didn't have fathers in the home. Single mom, divorced, unwed mother, whatever the reason... Big brother is a good example, if it weren't for Eric mom would be "available" how dare he... If it were a Japanese story, mom would bow to max and call him master, simply because he's male. but due to feminism and equal rights in the west... males aren't master anymore. so these young western males are being abused by their feminist mothers and there's no male in the house to defend them.

from a young age the boy begins questioning, "why mommy, why don't you love me?" hid desire for romance grows over the years, and all the while seeking approval of his mother which he will never get simply because he's "a male"
we will call this new genre femincest. an intense desire to be loved by one's mother, that will never happen, because he was born with a penis. the only way his feminist mother could love him, is if he underwent a transformation of some kind.

Animal perhaps? unwed mother feminists are capable of having pursedogs are they not.... but are they dogs loved?
Dress as a girl, so mom can love you? might work getting breast implants might make her jealous tho

Fucking lol. What is this, the chauvinist equivalent of cuck porn? This reads like a Jack Chick tract

 

[muttdoggy]

It's a tale of the fox and the henhouse.

Spoiler: TL;DR

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[Gozer]

Depends on the mom for me actually. If she's gives the vibe of a dirty slut then I feel the storyline needs to be rushed to treat her as such like bb for example. The mom is a total slut that likes to be dominated (and is easily dominated) but the MC is a total beta so the story can't progress in that method (Somehow cock blocks itself?????). Best bet for something better are games like Summertime saga and that's ONLY IF they add more story into getting into his moms panties. Other than the above listed would probably be a novel game and that's just a meh roller coaster or completed Jap game which always includes weird shit like Shiza or urine in it for some damn reason,idk I blame the radiation damage over generations.