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GingerSweetGirl

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Don uses the word debt until the very last part of the conversation where debts and all of them were used. So then the logical conclusion would be Liam was visiting that casino more than once, which means he was hiding and lying to Sophia or Don Morello has no intention of letting Sophia go that easy.

Debt Quote - Don Morello

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and finally "Debts & All of Them"
View attachment 1060879
Hmmmmm that's a good pickup. He does deliberately change to the plural in that last frame. This could definitely recontextualize Liam as a more severe gambling addict than we previously thought.
 

Dr.SigmundFap

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Hmmmmm that's a good pickup. He does deliberately change to the plural in that last frame. This could definitely recontextualize Liam as a more severe gambling addict than we previously thought.
This is why I said in a previous statement several months ago, from a realistic standpoint, why did they choose to go to a casino if she knew he was an addict.
 
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GingerSweetGirl

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This is why I said in a previous statement several months ago, from a realistic standpoint, why did they choose to go to a casino if she knew he was an addict.
Well she may not know the extent of the problem. If he's successfully hiding it from her and it's only gotten worse recently, then Sophia may not have had any reason for concern.
 

Dr.SigmundFap

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Well she may not know the extent of the problem. If he's successfully hiding it from her and it's only gotten worse recently, then Sophia may not have had any reason for concern.
These scenes actually debunk the extent of the problem with his gambling and the thing is that at the start of the novel, Sophia's narration explains that Liam has a "little gambling problem."

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Narration - Liam's little weakness for gambling.
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Talcum Powder

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Feb 14, 2018
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In poker, only 10% is your skills, the other 90% is luck, any professional poker player will say the same.
Someone disagrees with you:
“Everyone gets lucky once in a while, but no one is consistently lucky.” ~ Doyle Brunson

Luck is getting a great starting hand, skill is knowing how to play any and every hand.
 
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GingerSweetGirl

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These scenes actually debunk the extent of the problem with his gambling and the thing is that at the start of the novel, Sophia's narration explains that Liam has a "little gambling problem."

View attachment 1061046
View attachment 1061047

Narration - Liam's little weakness for gambling.
View attachment 1061120
I read their comments the night of the casino disaster as him defensively passing responsibility (like addicts do) and Sophia radically revaluating his addiction in realtime. My read on that scene is, if you reverse time 12 hours he would never say that and she would never think that. Gambling away the house causes him to reflexively ignore his responsibility while she realizes it's not a little issue anymore.
 

hzjujk

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I would just like to point out, as a native speaker, that in German one speaks of debts when it comes to money.
When it comes to personal guilt, the singular is often used.
Nevertheless, I cannot completely escape the lines of argument here. The reason is not the linguistic subtleties
but Liam's clothing and behavior during the "negotiation" with Morello. Relatively carefree and disrespectful.
On the other hand, his dress style and behavior during the incident in prison.
But it doesn't matter!
The mafia will not give up its money. And a mafia boss who waives 400,000 because of a woman would quickly be
considered weak. There will be an offer that will only be made if both brothers are satisfied.
For example, Morello's entry into the fashion industry. Liam as a money launderer. Something like that.
Maybe something that Sophia can do without Liam. But whatever it is, Morello cannot afford to go without the
money / business.
 

xxxorro

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At this point we can go even wilder and speculate that he had been at the casino and lost many times, he had to sit down with Morello and he offered Sophia as an "asset" to pay back (something that an addict in desperate need may come to). Then the night at the casino Morello checked out Sophia and agreed to the deal. Then they played pretend the whole time telling Sophia it was only that time etc. beside that slip of "debts". Liam could have also pretended to have a phone call to leave the jail room to give Sophia the opportunity to do what asked.
I don't like it, but since we are speculating... :)
 

nexer

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At this point we can go even wilder and speculate that he had been at the casino and lost many times, he had to sit down with Morello and he offered Sophia as an "asset" to pay back (something that an addict in desperate need may come to). Then the night at the casino Morello checked out Sophia and agreed to the deal. Then they played pretend the whole time telling Sophia it was only that time etc. beside that slip of "debts". Liam could have also pretended to have a phone call to leave the jail room to give Sophia the opportunity to do what asked.
I don't like it, but since we are speculating... :)
I was thinking the same thing, but it would be too much.
We can add Ellie, a manipulator who plays with her mother, first she tells her that she always uses protection and then that she is a virgin.

Let's not forget the eliminated Twist. The initial script of the game was quite twisted, and we can think that not only Dylan has/had a very dark side.

These are just speculations.

But one thing puts Liam in a very bad situation. How quickly he agreed to let Sophia go cheer up another man. Will Sophia think about her husband's attitude towards this?
 
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Jude6

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... Let's not forget the eliminated Twist. The initial script of the game was quite twisted ...
Clearly I've forgotten things - what was the more twisted version of the game early on?

Although you did also remind me, the early version of this game had Liam as a dual-protagonist.
I don't know how early into development L&P scrapped that idea so who knows what affect it had on subsequent story-lines, but I can image how the dual-viewpoint dynamic would have played out, likely switching back and forth each day, you play the day as Sophia then replay the same day as Liam.

It lends weight to the idea that xxxorro put forward about Liam secretly offering his wife as collateral, if you play the day of the Casino from Sophia's perspective, find out about the debt for a nice big 'Oh no!' moment - then replay the evening from Liam's perspective to deliver an even bigger 'OH NO!'

Having said that, it would be a pretty massive turn for Liam as a character - so doubtful.
At worst so far Liam has only really been depicted as neglectful and insensitive.
 
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Dr.SigmundFap

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Apr 23, 2017
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Well, let's say that the "not so good" news for you will turn into much better news for you shortly afterwards.
So, the "not so good" news for you are that I will have a post-correction surgery (of the surgery in Korea last year) on Wednesday this week. But it will take place in Germany, so I will already be back home one day after. This means I won't be able to work only Tue, Wed and Thu. So here we come to the good news. I got all my things done the last days/weeks, so that I won't even leave my apartment for min. 3-4 weeks after the surgery. And I also didn't plan anything for April, May, June and July. So, I will focus all my time on the game which will be more than the weeks before! Or more precisely: around 11 working hours per day Mon-Sun.

What's already done?

I finished the first two side job events. The 1st one has 123 renders and the 2nd one around 222.
So, only two bigger events left. I don't count the Liam and the Dylan/Emma events, because they're too small. I'll start working on the next event (Aiden) on Friday and try to release a first teaser of it this weekend.
 

Lederzar

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Mar 5, 2020
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Well, let's say that the "not so good" news for you will turn into much better news for you shortly afterwards.
So, the "not so good" news for you are that I will have a post-correction surgery (of the surgery in Korea last year) on Wednesday this week. But it will take place in Germany, so I will already be back home one day after. This means I won't be able to work only Tue, Wed and Thu. So here we come to the good news. I got all my things done the last days/weeks, so that I won't even leave my apartment for min. 3-4 weeks after the surgery. And I also didn't plan anything for April, May, June and July. So, I will focus all my time on the game which will be more than the weeks before! Or more precisely: around 11 working hours per day Mon-Sun.

What's already done?

I finished the first two side job events. The 1st one has 123 renders and the 2nd one around 222.
So, only two bigger events left. I don't count the Liam and the Dylan/Emma events, because they're too small. I'll start working on the next event (Aiden) on Friday and try to release a first teaser of it this weekend.
I really don't remember the last time L&P had a smooth development period, we had the surgery last year, then we had to wait 5 months because the yoga event was too big, then came the move out, the failure of the graphic cards and now we return to another surgery, we’re really out of luck

Well let’s ask for a quick and good recovery ( and that nothing else happens)
 

xxxorro

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Jan 18, 2021
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Clearly I've forgotten things - what was the more twisted version of the game early on?

Although you did also remind me, the early version of this game had Liam as a dual-protagonist.
I don't know how early into development L&P scrapped that idea so who knows what affect it had on subsequent story-lines, but I can image how the dual-viewpoint dynamic would have played out, likely switching back and forth each day, you play the day as Sophia then replay the same day as Liam.

It lends weight to the idea that xxxorro put forward about Liam secretly offering his wife as collateral, if you play the day of the Casino from Sophia's perspective, find out about the debt for a nice big 'Oh no!' moment - then replay the evening from Liam's perspective to deliver an even bigger 'OH NO!'

Having said that, it would be a pretty massive turn for Liam as a character - so doubtful.
At worst so far Liam has only really been depicted as neglectful and insensitive.
As I said I don't like that and I too think it's a little bit too twisted for a side storyline. And like for the removed Twist, it shed a very dark light on the character.

However, I don't think that the Morello part can be over with the visit in jail.
Ok the "Conditional Realism" (Bane71), but it's hard to believe that a mafia boss, even a well mannered one like Morello, gives up that much money for a 10mins show! :) This doesn't necessarily means more Sophia's action, but probably as hzjujk suggested he could be interested in getting involved in Liam's business once/if he becomes the CEO. I mean, I don't care about the business part, but as a reader I would find really unrealistic if in the next meeting he says "Good job Sophia, you guys can go, forget about your debt".

I also wondered if Morello meeting Sophia at the table was just a coincidence or something more. I think that we all can agree that the coincidence is quite odd, but again it could be just a way to introduce the character (and mislead us a bit ;-)). On the contrary, the other opens the way to all scenarios mentioned before, even the casino setting up Liam option by nexer (like he got interested by the short flirt with Sophia, found out Liam was her husband and somehow accepted the high-stake gamble because... well, the house knows how to win :))

I hope that with the big news of the day we will soon (!!) find out :)
 

L&P's Father-in-Law

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Jun 25, 2017
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Well, let's say that the "not so good" news for you will turn into much better news for you shortly afterwards.
So, the "not so good" news for you are that I will have a post-correction surgery (of the surgery in Korea last year) on Wednesday this week. But it will take place in Germany, so I will already be back home one day after. This means I won't be able to work only Tue, Wed and Thu. So here we come to the good news. I got all my things done the last days/weeks, so that I won't even leave my apartment for min. 3-4 weeks after the surgery. And I also didn't plan anything for April, May, June and July. So, I will focus all my time on the game which will be more than the weeks before! Or more precisely: around 11 working hours per day Mon-Sun.

What's already done?

I finished the first two side job events. The 1st one has 123 renders and the 2nd one around 222.
So, only two bigger events left. I don't count the Liam and the Dylan/Emma events, because they're too small. I'll start working on the next event (Aiden) on Friday and try to release a first teaser of it this weekend.
:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 
Nov 21, 2019
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Well, let's say that the "not so good" news for you will turn into much better news for you shortly afterwards.
So, the "not so good" news for you are that I will have a post-correction surgery (of the surgery in Korea last year) on Wednesday this week. But it will take place in Germany, so I will already be back home one day after. This means I won't be able to work only Tue, Wed and Thu. So here we come to the good news. I got all my things done the last days/weeks, so that I won't even leave my apartment for min. 3-4 weeks after the surgery. And I also didn't plan anything for April, May, June and July. So, I will focus all my time on the game which will be more than the weeks before! Or more precisely: around 11 working hours per day Mon-Sun.

What's already done?

I finished the first two side job events. The 1st one has 123 renders and the 2nd one around 222.
So, only two bigger events left. I don't count the Liam and the Dylan/Emma events, because they're too small. I'll start working on the next event (Aiden) on Friday and try to release a first teaser of it this weekend.
lol, get your face right dev.
 
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Jude6

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Sep 17, 2017
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... However, I don't think that the Morello part can be over with the visit in jail....
100% agree, there's no way that the prison meeting is the end of that storyline.
The next Morello scene will presumably setup Sophia's requirement to go back to the jail or do something else for the Morello family.

I'm hoping the storyline will incorporate the whole Cumare (Mob Mistress) thing, Larry says if she shows him her breasts he'll tell his brother that she's his Cumare, and entitled to certain privileges - then she shows him, unwittingly agreeing to his offer.
Hopefully the next Don Morello scene will include a line like: 'Well you visited Larry and from what I heard you made his day, for that I will agree to a repayment plan you and your husband can afford - but then Larry tells me you agreed to be his Cumare...? So now you're obliged to go back and see him whenever he asks. And he's already asking.'


Also, for the people arguing about Luck vs Skill in a poker game... do keep in mind that the poker game where Liam lost the house didn't actually happen.
L&P wasn't crunching numbers and studying card-counting to figure out if Liam would be able to win, Liam lost because the game's narrative said he had to lose.
The line from the intro about "... He's also a good poker player, but he has a little weakness for gambling" was written to instill the player with a sense of 'Oh, this guy is pretty good at poker' - so that later when we find out he lost the house in a poker game, we are left with a sense of 'How did this pretty good poker player lose so badly, unless there's something fishy going on.'


Also (since L&P skims this thread sometimes), hope your surgery goes well dude, don't rush that post-surgery recovery and take care of yourself.
 

ancienregimele

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Sep 27, 2017
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If it takes that long for the update, then maybe the game will end for about a decade Lol
It is seriously proposed that this IS how long it will take. L&P has even defended this timescale & to be fair, it doesn't bother me that much. (Like most people I have more than enough to worry about right now, without bothering about how daft a 10-year long game sounds). If you think of it like a soap opera, it may not seem so bad. I know of one soap that has run for 61 years........aargh!
 

ancienregimele

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Something strange happened in the casino. Liam is a good poker player but he lost playing poker.
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The casino accepted a bet, supposedly a very large one. Hundreds of thousands.
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This smells really bad.
As soon as this sequence was shown I said that Sophia's mini winning streak had been engineered by the Don, so that he could meet her, comment on her beautiful eyes etc. There wasn't complete agreement but now I think most fans accept that everything that occurred was no accident. Just how deeply Liam is implicated is one the major points of speculation & leads to a sense of anticipation for future revelations. I think that it's quite possible that he was gambling while supposedly 'working late.' I'm not so sure of whether he offered Sophia as a kind of collateral but after all, people don't always act in predictable ways.
 
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