VN Ren'Py A Wife and Mother [v0.220] [Lust & Passion]

[GingerSweetGirl]

I can agree with this. However, the 30 day time frame is then in conflict with slow corruption. If he had structured this over a greater time frame it would be more believable. He could have easily skipped whole weeks, months as any story line progressed as he desired. He did not and the result is this horrible production rate with a story that has so many paths it is exploding out of control and realism. The only slow is the production. The reality, in game time, is in less than two weeks Sophia is on the edge of sleeping with multiple characters, flashing herself to everyone and yet two weeks ago she freaked at her undies being seen on the floor. She is taking super leaps not baby steps.

He has an interesting concept that had some serious possibilities that he has missed the target on. Step back and think of the speed of this slow corruption that isn't. I think of how so much of this could have been avoided if he had a team supporting him, as he planned. I am always surprised at this process that really points to an incomplete story and how that could have prevented so many of these issues. The production rate alone would have been improved.

I totally understand what you're getting at, and they're valid criticisms.

To some extent I guess I'm willing to give leeway and consideration that honest mistakes were made. He's a first time game developer who has made errors. I have long said that starting Sophia off so sexually naive was a mistake. This mistake was compounded by the decision to set the game across 30 days. I think it's important that we keep in mind that any developer is allowed to make mistakes, and that not all mistakes are as easy to fix as we think. Sometimes you're better off sticking with the error because fixing it can cause other problems. I don't know the in-and-outs of game development, and neither do I know what he plans for the future, and since he doesn't seem to have any time jumps planned I have to believe that he's determined that they aren't practical. Otherwise, you're right, time jumps would fix a lot of the game's issues with pacing.

But I'm also willing to accept that this is a work of fiction and is supposed to be entertaining. Everyone has their threshold for suspension of disbelief, how much they're willing to accept from a story before it becomes too outrageous to accept. It's like watching Star Trek, you suspend your disbelief for faster-than-light travel because otherwise everything is impossible to accept. I'm willing to suspend my disbelief on certain elements of the story because it's just a game and sometimes it's better to have fun than strict accuracy. But things like the second side-job have really pushed me to my limit, and have opened the door for me to express criticism. I agree with you in the sense that his choices and mistakes are beginning to pile up and compound on each other, and that opens the game up to severe criticism.

But again, I think all of this could be greatly mitigated if the relationship between the dev and the audience weren't so openly hostile. If he was more active on his Patreon, and on forums like this, and communicated more clearly with the audience about his choices and design philosophy, it would go a long way to improving the overall climate. I would love to hear him explain why time jumps aren't planned because even if I disagreed with the decision at least we would have a reason. I would love to hear him talk about changes he'd make to the game's structure if he knew then what he knows now. A lot of devs have these conversations with their audience, but of anyone I follow none are as cryptic or standoffish as L&P. And that's resulted in a terrible cycle where he operates largely in secret, and shuns this community. I'm sure he still lurks around here and he probably rolls his eyes at everything we say, but I really do wish he'd participate more- even if in the short term he received some withering criticism. Long-term I think it would work out really well for him and it would make this thread less toxic because, less admit, this thread has gone off the rails more than once.

 

[L&P's Father-in-Law]

View attachment 1442760
As we all know, "somebody" posted this image with L&P's patreon link, pretending that it is from L&P. I rolled my eyes with people who were actually deceived. The somebody now claims that L&P must have been milking because he was able to make this render in a short time frame.

I don't have any intention to offend him. Actually, I thought it's one of sound renders from a newbie using pre-made lightings, poses and expressions. But he started comparing his work with L&P's. Let's find out why I immediately noticed it's not from L&P.

• Focus of the image: Story of the scene seems to be about Sophia riding the bull but she was not focused. I can guess it's because her pose turns out ugly and unnatural. But that's a huge lost opportunity there.
• Camera headlamp turned on: A typical newbie mistake. You forgot to turn off camera headlamp and the lighting is visibly noticeable in the image and breaking realism of the scene because everything (e.g., eyes, skins, ...) is shiny and bright in the front part of the scene. It also means he does not have the renderer's eyes yet.
• Lighting: Basically no lighting effort. I am not sure what L&P does for his lighting. But his scene includes volumetric ray and HDRI (high-dynamic-range imaging) feel. There is none in the image above because "somebody" just used the light from the environment as it is.
• Poses and expressions: Somebody tried to express people in the scene amused by Sophia riding bull. But since he used default poses and expression, emotion of the scene feels like a fake smile or a bad acting. And as for Sophia pose, somebody tried to blur, but the unnatural hand/leg poses were noticeable. This would not happen in L&P's
• Empty tables: OK Let's assume everybody in the scene came to see Sophia but nothing in the tables?
• Camera angle: not optimized at all. I don't see basics of scene composition. I don't think he even experimented many angles whether focus is on the people or on Sophia.

In summary, the somebody made the scene with pre-made lighting, poses, expression, and so on without optimizing them. And the speedy result may be good for fan art and for some VN, but I don't expect it from L&P's. Ultimately, here is decision you can make. If you are satisfied with this kind of render for VN, go find one. There are hundreds of them, if not thousands. If you not satisfied and you still feel his milking, you might have text fetish. Go to literotica.com and enjoy.

thanks t3alqdansam for his suggestion.

So many words, so much shit wrong.
Let's start: First of all I didn't compare my work with L&P like they were the same quality. But since you're talking about comparisons: go compare my renders after 50h of DAZ with L&P's work when he had 50 hours of Daz.

2. Focus of the image: Your opinion.
3. Camera headlamp turned on? No, it's not. That's wrong. There's a lightsource right above her, maybe shined too bright but no headlamp, good try buddy.
4. There's actually hdri in there but no volumetric rays inside. You want what? Particles? Godrays inside a bar at night? It's doable but unecessary for what was a joke. Good try again buddy.
5. Poses and expressions: Absolutely wrong. No presets at all in anything, I'm not L&P (he does use preset expressions and I can even tell you which packs he does use). Every face expression and movement from the torso up was changed (and some clipping feet here and there). Wrong again buddy. The only poses that were used were horse riding poses to make it easier to pose her on top of something. You really think L&P doesn't use pose packs?
6. Empty tables: why put people in there for a fan art render? I could always argue everyone came to see her and the bartender is fucking Sam in the back. Done
7. Camera angle "I don't think he even experimente angles whether focus is on the people or on Sophia". This is how it's noticeable you're just full of shit, you and t3, because 18 renders were posted on the fan art topic with 4 different angles. Wrong again buddy.

I'm not saying they are good or bad. I'm saying I made them like that and some dudes fell for it. Hell even showed up on some youtube video as spoiler.
In 2something hours, I inserted the scene, put some props on the bar, got all the characters added, everyone dressed, everyone posed differently, cameras set up, tried some shit with lights like volumetric lighting, rendered + post process and did the renders attached.
Thats what someone absolutely new with no intention whatsoever of ever having any sort of business in this space does with 50h of experience to post on a fan art thread expecting absolutely 0 reward.


This is what someone whose livelihood is this business with 15000 of DAZ does right now with 2something hours:

Spoiler

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I don't mean to offend but next time, don't make a fool out of yourself "somebody" and if t3alqdansam wants to say something he can do it on his main account.

 

[L&P's Father-in-Law]

Notice anything here mr error inspector? Does this look like the MC? Because this sure reminds me of a pack preset. Whats up with those eyelids? Are they stretching?
What's that on the forehead? Oh shit is that a glitch?

Cant be, L&P wouldnt do this. He doesn't make mistakes!!!!11

What's this? Wait, what? Is this some new Ikea furniture? What's up with her face?

I expect you to go on his Patron and get this straight mr render inspector!!1

And before some smooth brain comes out again putting words in my mouth I'll repeat what's on one of the last pages and in my review of the game in the rating page: L&P renders are great. I personally don't care about these mistakes, it doesn't prevent the story to be told. I'd prefer errors here and there and a pace of 10-15 renders per day than the absolute misery of 5 renders per day someone with almost 2 years worth of non stop 24/7 DAZ3d pushed out in the last update.
Now t3 sub account after you're done reading this, do the same as your main account and click ignore on my nickname, so we can all move on and I don't waste my time answering anymore of your assumptions.

 

[Deleted member 3325933]

I totally understand what you're getting at, and they're valid criticisms.

To some extent I guess I'm willing to give leeway and consideration that honest mistakes were made. He's a first time game developer who has made errors. I have long said that starting Sophia off so sexually naive was a mistake. This mistake was compounded by the decision to set the game across 30 days. I think it's important that we keep in mind that any developer is allowed to make mistakes, and that not all mistakes are as easy to fix as we think. Sometimes you're better off sticking with the error because fixing it can cause other problems. I don't know the in-and-outs of game development, and neither do I know what he plans for the future, and since he doesn't seem to have any time jumps planned I have to believe that he's determined that they aren't practical. Otherwise, you're right, time jumps would fix a lot of the game's issues with pacing.

But I'm also willing to accept that this is a work of fiction and is supposed to be entertaining. Everyone has their threshold for suspension of disbelief, how much they're willing to accept from a story before it becomes too outrageous to accept. It's like watching Star Trek, you suspend your disbelief for faster-than-light travel because otherwise everything is impossible to accept. I'm willing to suspend my disbelief on certain elements of the story because it's just a game and sometimes it's better to have fun than strict accuracy. But things like the second side-job have really pushed me to my limit, and have opened the door for me to express criticism. I agree with you in the sense that his choices and mistakes are beginning to pile up and compound on each other, and that opens the game up to severe criticism.

But again, I think all of this could be greatly mitigated if the relationship between the dev and the audience weren't so openly hostile. If he was more active on his Patreon, and on forums like this, and communicated more clearly with the audience about his choices and design philosophy, it would go a long way to improving the overall climate. I would love to hear him explain why time jumps aren't planned because even if I disagreed with the decision at least we would have a reason. I would love to hear him talk about changes he'd make to the game's structure if he knew then what he knows now. A lot of devs have these conversations with their audience, but of anyone I follow none are as cryptic or standoffish as L&P. And that's resulted in a terrible cycle where he operates largely in secret, and shuns this community. I'm sure he still lurks around here and he probably rolls his eyes at everything we say, but I really do wish he'd participate more- even if in the short term he received some withering criticism. Long-term I think it would work out really well for him and it would make this thread less toxic because, less admit, this thread has gone off the rails more than once.

Rails? There are rails? I know what you are saying.

If you read the Where the Heart is Thread right now the team is chatting away and there is a reasonably good back and forth. There is support for the devs and the naysayers have very little traction. How refreshing! I agree that communication would have been good. However, I think that bridge is burning. He made choices that may be the result of past experiences or just his own traits. BUT, he has failed at having a team and unless he has a team (I.e. outside eyes) he has no credibility in his communications. He is in that locked tower working away and the rails seem to be spreading apart. Oh dang. there are rails!

 

[mad_hungarian]

I'm pretty sure everybody uses the left hand for a wedding ring I think you have it on the right if you are a widow/widower. Also the fake teaser shows the ring finger not middle.

nope,, depending on the country. EU countries such as germany use the right hand ring finger for marriage.

 

[Sabertooth__]

Notice anything here mr error inspector? Does this look like the MC? Because this sure reminds me of a pack preset. Whats up with those eyelids? Are they stretching?
What's that on the forehead? Oh shit is that a glitch?

Cant be, L&P wouldnt do this. He doesn't make mistakes!!!!11

What's this? Wait, what? Is this some new Ikea furniture? What's up with her face?

I expect you to go on his Patron and get this straight mr render inspector!!1

And before some smooth brain comes out again putting words in my mouth I'll repeat what's on one of the last pages and in my review of the game in the rating page: L&P renders are great. I personally don't care about these mistakes, it doesn't prevent the story to be told. I'd prefer errors here and there and a pace of 10-15 renders per day than the absolute misery of 5 renders per day someone with almost 2 years worth of non stop 24/7 DAZ3d pushed out in the last update.
Now t3 sub account after you're done reading this, do the same as your main account and click ignore on my nickname, so we can all move on and I don't waste my time answering anymore of your assumptions.

The second image is indeed a mistake but I don't feel anything weird about the first one. Makeup can make it look like that. It's easy for women.

As for the face. I asked many fan artists here on why Sophia looks so different in different scenes and lot of them told me lighting is a very key factor along with the angles chosen.

 

[GingerSweetGirl]

The second image is indeed a mistake but I don't feel anything weird about the first one. Makeup can make it look like that. It's easy for women.

As for the face. I asked many fan artists here on why Sophia looks so different in different scenes and lot of them told me lighting is a very key factor along with the angles chosen.

I would kill for my makeup to look that good. Like, ok maybe not kill, but I would certainly very much want someone in my house to do my makeup like that every day. There is nothing easy about it. People get paid good money to do that kind of makeup.

But I think the issue with the first image is that there's a...crack on Sophia's face. Look at her right (our left) eyebrow. Is that what I'm seeing? It's a weird line. In the end it isn't a big deal to me but it's hard to miss if you're really looking for mistakes.

I actually don't see anything wrong with her face in the second image.

 

[Sabertooth__]

I would kill for my makeup to look that good. Like, ok maybe not kill, but I would certainly very much want someone in my house to do my makeup like that every day. There is nothing easy about it. People get paid good money to do that kind of makeup.

But I think the issue with the first image is that there's a...crack on Sophia's face. Look at her right (our left) eyebrow. Is that what I'm seeing? It's a weird line. In the end it isn't a big deal to me but it's hard to miss if you're really looking for mistakes.

I actually don't see anything wrong with her face in the second image.

Okay maybe I presumed a bit too much. Not so easy to do that kind of makeup. I noticed that crack too. Indeed difficult to miss but I don't know daz so I have no idea why such lines occur.

The second image, her face kinda looks different. It's still okay here but in some events there's too much difference.

 

[Alley_Cat]

I would kill for my makeup to look that good. Like, ok maybe not kill, but I would certainly very much want someone in my house to do my makeup like that every day. There is nothing easy about it. People get paid good money to do that kind of makeup.

But I think the issue with the first image is that there's a...crack on Sophia's face. Look at her right (our left) eyebrow. Is that what I'm seeing? It's a weird line. In the end it isn't a big deal to me but it's hard to miss if you're really looking for mistakes.

I actually don't see anything wrong with her face in the second image.

That "crack" happens when hair isn't fitted properly. It only comes up when rendering, but it's pretty easy to fix. Since L&P has been using the two assets together for a while now, it's a sloppy error.

 

[Alley_Cat]

Thanks for that info. But I have a question. If the cause for the error is the hair not being fit properly why is it not there in the other renders. I just checked. I don't think the model is adjusted after every render so why does only one render have that error and not others.

I'm just guessing, but it may depend on how he originally fixed it, since there are numerous approaches. But it's still odd that it came up after he's been using the model and the hair together for a while now.

This is the problem with not sharing assets. I'm just about to spend a few hours investigating something for another dev, which will give him more options for his game later. But with L&P, without having the exact model, there's no way to be sure how to fix the issue.

 

[GingerSweetGirl]

I'm just guessing, but it may depend on how he originally fixed it, since there are numerous approaches. But it's still odd that it came up after he's been using the model and the hair together for a while now.

This is the problem with not sharing assets. I'm just about to spend a few hours investigating something for another dev, which will give him more options for his game later. But with L&P, without having the exact model, there's no way to be sure how to fix the issue.

Interesting, thanks for the great insights. Is it possible he fixes it through Photoshop? Still though, it wouldn't explain why he'd miss that very glaring issue.

 

[Alley_Cat]

Interesting, thanks for the great insights. Is it possible he fixes it through Photoshop? Still though, it wouldn't explain why he'd miss that very glaring issue.

Fixing it through PS instead of in the model is one method of correcting it, but that's got to get tiresome for him

 

[GingerSweetGirl]

Fixing it through PS instead of in the model is one method of correcting it, but that's got to get tiresome for him

I guess that's what I'm getting at though. Is it possible that he's never actually corrected the problem with the model and always does it through PS?

 

[I_Love_Moms]

I need to learn DAZ. I feel like a chimp here.

 

[BRTT]

now and expects the update

 

[chtouvidel]

Hello. And can someone do I do not know, a mod, a script that would remove the constant introduction of the name of the save. For example, I like to do a lot of save games, and when you constantly need to enter a name for each save, well, it strains, and interferes with the comfort of the gameplay. Well, and don't enjoy the game, can anyone help with that?

 

[I_Love_Moms]

Hello. And can someone do I do not know, a mod, a script that would remove the constant introduction of the name of the save. For example, I like to do a lot of save games, and when you constantly need to enter a name for each save, well, it strains, and interferes with the comfort of the gameplay. Well, and don't enjoy the game, can anyone help with that?

You don't need to enter the name every time you create a new save. Simply press the Enter(Return) key and it will be saved as an unnamed save.

 

[lancelotdulak]

I guess that's what I'm getting at though. Is it possible that he's never actually corrected the problem with the model and always does it through PS?

Theres zero chance any artist with a brain fixes basic mistakes through ps. If you had a lot of renders with the same MINOR mistake in the same place.. or color problem or whatever you might macro fix them.

In my experience here's how daz creation goes. First you load a model. Deciding which one can take a bit and you often spend a lot of time developing one you really like and it.. just doesnt work. So you trash it. When you have one that works for what you want you then spend a LOT of time tweaking it. Then save it. Then you select hair etc etc .. make some renders.. go back and make more tweaks "damn her neck is too fat.. her breasts arent quite right" etc. I have models with hundreds of revisions. One of my Favorite models i had .. god knows how many renders of that are game quality.. ive decided the hair Just doesnt work.. and gone back and changed it and started over. When you make a "model" youre building a person. To me they become someone. Eventually you found your person. Now you build your scenes around them. This can take a while. Then you find mistakes and go back and redo it. Tiny mistakes "Dammit her toe is clipping through the floor".. then add other models etc. Once you do all this you start posing. With some experience this gets >relatively< quick. You know what you want and you know how to do it. And anyone who doesnt use any presets at all as a starting point is an idiot. Then add other characters youve built etc. And here is another problem. Once you see that Entire scene... you may realise it just doesnt work. It's just missing something. Wipe and change.
Once you have all of this done producing more scenes is just render time. You see those scenes where characters are talking and they slightly move each screen? That's easy it's just render time. And a good use of time honestly.
It's the Base building and the actual "art" part that take all the time. Because once youve spent hundreds or thousands of hours in daz if it doesnt work it makes you nuts. And youre not going to go into photoshop and do hackish bullshit to whitewash the mistakes because you will Always know theyre there. Youre going to go back, fix the saved scene (i save EVERYTHING) and re render .
THIS stuff is why it takes, especially,the best devs so long to produce an update. Theyre not willing to hack some shit together and slather hackish fixes over it in photoshop. Theyre creating art and they want it right. Ya it sucks when you reeeeeally want Big Brother or AWAM to produce an update NOW!! But it takes time.I dont have criticisms of devs not producing monthy updates to please a rabid fanbase ... art. takes. time

heres a render of my most recent model (from a base character etc i didnt hand sculpt her). Id say ive spent 50 hours getting her finished. She still needs tweeks.


Now having said that.. i have a big problem with the .. well lets say bizarre entitled loser mentality of some devs. I dont mean guys who do it as a hobby.. maybe make 400 a month in sidechange for spending 100+ hours in their free time. I have a HUGE problem with a dev bringing in 5 or 10 grand a month who doesnt have another job who cant produce 100 new renders a month. That's ludicrous and theyll eventually go back to flipping burgers

 

[nexer]

Notice anything here mr error inspector? Does this look like the MC? Because this sure reminds me of a pack preset. Whats up with those eyelids? Are they stretching?
What's that on the forehead? Oh shit is that a glitch?

Cant be, L&P wouldnt do this. He doesn't make mistakes!!!!11

IMO it's an error of whoever created the hair. It should have been fixed, but I guess he didn't notice it.
In the picture, Sophia raises her eyebrows, which causes a change in the character's mesh, and the hair mesh remains fixed.

The line you see on her forehead is a hairline, and we can see that it's on the "right" side as well.

 

[Piat]

Cute and hilarious to see salty knighty boys riding their ponnies with elaborated posts about perfectionalism, 11-hours working days and other unbelievable bullshits defending his worshiped lazzy ass diety. Lol man, you are all quite creative, congratulations, honestly. Just a pity he/she or whatever does not share the benefits with you, am I right? LOL

See ya in the next update. Maybe summer 2022 or later? Who knows, this kind of devs got that, elaborating god-art and all that process mortal plebs can't understand, so thanks god we have you all to explain and tell us why he needs more than 6 months to do what other devs do just in a 1 month or 2 in a regular basis.

All this, if Lazzy&Pedant does no get another psycho attack on delivering, like the last time.

(Unwatching this post, everything has a limit)