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anne O'nymous

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The entire point to most script kiddie grade malware is that they're hoping to bypass common anti-malware protections by having it evade detection.
The level of irony in that sentence is so high that Mitnick turned into a Lich the instant you've hit the "post reply" button...


This is radically different than a day zero attack.
I'm pretty sure that I explicitly said that "zero day" isn't limited to exploits, and therefore to attacks...


No anti-virus can help you if you deliberately install a RAT on your own system.
If by "deliberately" you mean "telling to your anti-virus that the software is good", then you're right. Else, you should warn , or , to only point to twos.


And because of the nature of this website you have tons of users who are already in the practice of telling Windows 10 / 11 to run unsigned software.
You're nice to assume that they are using a two digits version of Windows...


Anti-virus software is massively unnecessary. Windows Defender works just fine.
See c3p0 answer...


Because of the nature of this website your best bet to be safe is to run all unsigned software in a sandbox, or an isolated physical machine that you only use for this website's software.
Because of the nature of internet, your best bet whatever the software that you download, and whatever the place you downloaded it from, it to run all software, even signed ones, in isolation.


You do know that Windows Defender is an Anti-virus software?
You've read his post, and still have to ask? ;)
 

c3p0

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You've read his post, and still have to ask? ;)
You know that with hope and what will die at last?;)

And I'm happy if the malware that I may have is on a system level that I have fully access to and can purge and it is not on one that even admin/root have no access to it.:whistle::poop:
 

lamba

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You do know that Windows Defender is an Anti-virus software?
Yes, very good. And if you can recognize that you'd understand why a second is even less necessary. As a broad category, yes, anti-viruses are massively unnecessary for your average user. This includes Windows Defender. But if you did have to run one, I'd pick Defender because it's on your machine whether you like it or not. Unless you're on Linux / Apple, in which case I have no idea why you'd even be here.

You generally don't need an anti-virus because in this day and age any kind of risky behavior is better headed off by using a sand box or a burner machine. You're running unsigned software, from an untrusted source, lets not be silly.


You're nice to assume that they are using a two digits version of Windows...
If you're running anything older than 10, it's probably bootleg (no judgement here) to begin with and you should already be in the practice of doing things like clean installs and not doing anything that'd cause heartburn when you have to start over from scratch. The loss of performance- especially if you're trying to run a modern anti-virus on old hardware- just isn't worth trying to run one, never mind TWO, anti-viruses on your computer.


You've read his post, and still have to ask? ;)
The people who latch onto any lapse of logic, even where it doesn't exist, are always the least fun to engage with.

You do not need an anti-virus. Your anti-virus will not save you from yourself. If you're engaging in deliberately risky behavior online, an anti-virus generally wont help you. Your best courses of action are sand box environments or a burner machine because all a modern anti-virus is going to do is tell you that the software is unsigned and can't be trusted and then you'll say, "OK, run it anyways" because that's what this website trained you to do.

McAfee wont help you there. Neither will Kapersky. The files in question will be too novel for Virus Total to recognize them. You should get help if you think Norton is worth it. So you're installing software on your computer to make it run worse so that it can tell you, "This program looks suspicious." Which is an utterly meaningless gesture because you're going to run it anyways. And for that, yeah, Windows Defender is made by the people who administrate the software signing service for Windows so it's both the best at it and the one you already have. I personally don't run it because it's massively unnecessary, but for the average end user who I can't vouch for in terms of security awareness and internet hygiene, yeah. Windows Defender is sufficient.

And I'm happy if the malware that I may have is on a system level that I have fully access to and can purge and it is not on one that even admin/root have no access to it.
If you run a variety of modern games on your machine you already have a kernel level backdoor installed in the form of most commonly available kernel level anti-cheats. This is why I harp on about virtual machines, sandboxes and burner machines as much as I do. Expecting an anti-virus to keep you safe is incredibly naive. On a long enough timeline, your machine will be compromised. Wasting system resources on an anti-virus that wont protect you from it is foolish at best. And at worst it'll give someone a false sense of security and make them an easy target. I have dealt with far too many customers who did the, "But I'm paying for (insert commonly pushed AV service like McAfee or Norton) and it says I'm protected!" thing.

Ironically in your day-to-day activities the thing that will protect you the best is a web browser that lets you control what scripts are run and has an ad blocker.
 
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c3p0

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If you run a variety of modern games on your machine you already have a kernel level backdoor installed in the form of most commonly available kernel level anti-cheats. This is why I harp on about virtual machines, sandboxes and burner machines as much as I do. Expecting an anti-virus to keep you safe is incredibly naive. On a long enough timeline, your machine will be compromised. Wasting system resources on an anti-virus that wont protect you from it is foolish at best. And at worst it'll give someone a false sense of security and make them an easy target. I have dealt with far too many customers who did the, "But I'm paying for (insert commonly pushed AV service like McAfee or Norton) and it says I'm protected!" thing.
You're not on the wrong path, but one the wrong see.

Anne, I give up.;)
 
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anne O'nymous

I'm not grumpy, I'm just coded that way.
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The people who latch onto any lapse of logic, even where it doesn't exist, are always the least fun to engage with.
Don't sell yourself short like that, you're funnier than you think.


Your best courses of action are sand box environments or a burner machine because all a modern anti-virus is going to do is tell you that the software is unsigned and can't be trusted and then you'll say, "OK, run it anyways" because that's what this website trained you to do.
I'm pretty sure that my formation, then years of practice, as security admin trained me to do more than this.
As for anti-viruses behavior, even me I prefer to not answer by fear to be too rude...


The files in question will be too novel for Virus Total to recognize them.
You know that Virus Total is an aggregator and nothing more, right?


[...] I personally don't run it because it's massively unnecessary, but for the average end user who I can't vouch for in terms of security awareness and internet hygiene, yeah. Windows Defender is sufficient.
There's a contradiction in this sentence. Reader, can you see it?


On a long enough timeline, your machine will be compromised. Wasting system resources on an anti-virus that wont protect you from it is foolish at best.
24 years on internet, preceded by around 10 years of BBS. Is it a "long enough timeline" for you?
And during all those times, not a single computer in my LAN have been compromised; this not being just due to the bridge gateway for the said LAN...


I have dealt with far too many customers [...]
Oh sweet gods, have pity for them...
 

lamba

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And during all those times, not a single computer in my LAN have been compromised; this not being just due to the bridge gateway for the said LAN...
Mmm, I doubt that. But even if it's true, you're not the average user.

There's a contradiction in this sentence. Reader, can you see it?
My internet hygiene is good enough that I don't need to. Your average user should absolutely use Windows Defender.

You know that Virus Total is an aggregator and nothing more, right?
That's the entire point.

I'm pretty sure that my formation, then years of practice, as security admin trained me to do more than this.
...There isn't much more to do than what I described. Remember, we're talking about the average user, not the kind of person who's going to configure port configs, vlans and firewall settings.

The average user is not going to be helped by installing an AV on their system. It's a waste of resources. The average user is going to be just fine with Windows Defender. They could install four AV's and it wouldn't matter if they're in the practice of treating every alert from software off this website as a false positive.

And if that's the case the only correct answers are, "Wait a week or two and see if anyone else gets compromised from an update" and "spin it up in a sandbox because you can't trust these things."

Oh sweet gods, have pity for them...
Oh, goodness, you didn't include the other part for some reason. The part where I describe users dealing with the fact that their anti-virus is about as useful as a boat that can't float?

I wonder why.
 

anne O'nymous

I'm not grumpy, I'm just coded that way.
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The week started, so I'll just address this point:

They could install four AV's and it wouldn't matter if they're in the practice of treating every alert from software off this website as a false positive.
It's not the first time you address the possibility to have more than one anti-virus. Of course, you do it to say that it wouldn't help, but what bother me is that at no time you are addressing the fact that having more than one anti-viruses installed in fact lower the security level. Something that, beyond your "it will not protect you more", is way more important to point...
 
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c3p0

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What I find it more, lamba assessment is that the average (l)user click on everything even willingly install some malware. Then he advice that the same (l)user shall install a VM or a sandbox and run the software in it (obviously) both tools would need to be configured that they eg. don't run with network access.

In my eyes, he write many things that contradict themself and also write doesn't consider the whole thing (at best).

TL;DR: If you have user that click on everything like a chicken, then you need to educate them before all and any other measurements.
 
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anne O'nymous

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Then he advice that the same (l)user shall install a VM or a sandbox and run the software in it [...]
You fool, it is know that one can evade kernel securities, but not VM/sandbox layers...
do I really need to remind readers how sarcastic I am?
 

anne O'nymous

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Friendly reminder that the poster above is British... His taste is as questionable as aliens' love for anal probing. :whistle:
 

Icarus Media

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How have I missed it.:cry:
Good to know that this is back to normal. Do you two need a room or is everything OK? Blink twice if not.:oops::unsure:
Nah he already posting from his laptop as he limps with severe flatulence and a sore arse from the hotel room.
 

anne O'nymous

I'm not grumpy, I'm just coded that way.
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How have I missed it.:cry:
Good to know that this is back to normal. Do you two need a room or is everything OK? Blink twice if not.:oops::unsure:
Icarus Media couldn't Bear to feel ignored... But everything is fine on my side. As proof, here's a funny image presenting a totally innocent text...
bearWithMe.jpg

Rafster nothing against you, I swear...