Any devs with actual experience of Patreon "review"?

[79flavors]

I wonder if there any devs out there who have fallen foul of the dreaded Patreon "under review" and then continued with their project?

I'm asking for a specific recent reason (no reason to draw too much attention to it here), of a dev who's written a clearly incest centric game and Patreon have put his page under review.
However, I figure any concrete information would also be handy for anyone else trying to stay on the right side of Patreon (not the "I assume..." or "I know a guy who knew a guy..." type stories).

Once involved... what sort of rewrite are Patreon looking for? I'm guessing reunited childhood sweethearts would be fine, but step-siblings would still be a no-no?

How closely are Patreon looking after the fact? Are they looking at code? I know they could... but are they? Could a dev leave in their original code but add a "Patreon Friendly" flag to make the released code compliant with their rules?

Any first hand information gratefully received.
Cheers.

 

[User_920791]

Tip regarding code (for renpy games)

 

[79flavors]

Tip regarding code for renpy games

Cheers. I'm already very familiar with that thread.

It makes the assumption that Patreon are all seeing and all knowing. Which may or may not be the case... Which is partly what I'm trying to figure out.

 

[recreation]

I know someone who knows someone...
@Runey might be able to answer your question.

 

[Perverteer]

I've been under review, but not because of incest content, which is very much central to my VN Sisterly Lust.

During the first waves of reviews I scrubbed my Patreon page of incest references, also deleted a couple of comments and I created a Patreon version of Sisterly Lust.

The review of my page concerned implied nudity and was after the reviews that got Mr. Dots to stop working on Dating My Daughter. A couple of my tier images had the women cover their naked breasts with their hands. Giving them bras and replacing the header image was enough for the Patreon reviewer. I don't think they even started the game to check the content, just scanned the page.

I've also read about Patreon employees going through the actual code of a game, but I'm not sure if that's actually happening. It involves some technical skills most content moderators probably don't possess.

I know of the creator @79flavors is referring to and it always amazed me that his page escaped the Patreon review process, because he kept mentioning all the taboo things even after the enforcement of Patreon's content guidelines. In his case I'd advise a more radical approach and scrub everything, take the game down for the time being and work on a censored version in order to get the page up again as soon as possible. Haven't played the new game, but SSS is very problematic (incest, mind control) with regard to Patreon's guidelines.

 

[79flavors]

Yeah. I haven't spoke to him... but I'm guessing that the new game is going to get a partial rewrite to accommodate a revised backstory for some of the related characters and the older game dropped completely... at least from Patreon.

That's if he continues at all.

I've found him quite insular. This thread is partly my way of being the opposite... rather than solving it myself... using the power of the community to find actual facts and solutions.
Personally, I'm never likely to write my own game. But it wouldn't be the first time I've thought about "what are are they really checking?" And as I said in the OP, partly it so someone in the future would have an actual answer rather than trying to guess in the same way I am now.

 

[jamdan]

@Runey had a review when a character from his game was wearing "underage" clothing. Game isn't focused on incest though, but IMO clothing is even more ridiculous.

Patreon generally doesn't know anything unless someone reports something, they aren't playing through the game to find stuff to review. They just look at the name of the game and posts the account makes.

 

[Perverteer]

Yeah. I haven't spoke to him... but I'm guessing that the new game is going to get a partial rewrite to accommodate a revised backstory for some of the related characters and the older game dropped completely... at least from Patreon.

That's if he continues at all.

I've found him quite insular. This thread is partly my way of being the opposite... rather than solving it myself... using the power of the community to find actual facts and solutions.
Personally, I'm never likely to write my own game. But it wouldn't be the first time I've thought about "what are are they really checking?" And as I said in the OP, partly it so someone in the future would have an actual answer rather than trying to guess in the same way I am now.

Getting hit with such a notice isn't good for morale, that's for sure. Hope he continues, having come out of that recent Ren'Py conversion.

Patreon checks based on reports. So if someone reports actual content in the game, they'll point that out, but I don't think they actually play through the games itself. That said, it varies between content moderator. Some creators have had very relaxed reviews, mine included. The moderator just quoted some Patreon boilerplate and after my assurances everything was in order, the ban was lifted.

@Runey had a review when a character from his game was wearing "underage" clothing. Game isn't focused on incest though, but IMO clothing is even more ridiculous.

That review was prompted by those Italian scammers reselling games on their own website, right? I'm curious what steps Patreon forced @Runey to make, has anything changed in Harem Hotel?

 

[recreation]

Getting hit with such a notice isn't good for morale, that's for sure. Hope he continues, having come out of that recent Ren'Py conversion.

Patreon checks based on reports. So if someone reports actual content in the game, they'll point that out, but I don't think they actually play through the games itself. That said, it varies between content moderator. Some creators have had very relaxed reviews, mine included. The moderator just quoted some Patreon boilerplate and after my assurances everything was in order, the ban was lifted.

That review was prompted by those Italian scammers reselling games on their own website, right? I'm curious what steps Patreon forced @Runey to make, has anything changed in Harem Hotel?

He had to put the character in question in some new clothes to make her look older, thats it. (Still a lot of work to redo all the images, but he sure got lucky with "just" that)

 

[Runey]

My Patreon page hasn't been taken down, I was just put into contact with someone at Patreon. But I think I can still help a little bit.

Patreon aren't playing these games. I would say they never will, but I don't want those words to bite me in the ass some day. They're actually just getting reports from players, real or not. As Jamdan mentioned, Patreon contacted me telling me Ashley looked too young, so I informed them that she's 19, and clearly stated in the game she's 19, and clearly shown in game that she isn't meant to be or look or act under aged, so they settled on letting me change her clothes, or change her breast size.

You can show Patreon your side of the story, but no matter what, don't fight them. People get banned off Patreon for fighting a decision. Rather let them know your side, and accept whatever they want you to do.

For incest, they want you to make which ever characters be not related. I assume you just need to change "sister" to "childhood friend" or something similar.

Getting hit with such a notice isn't good for morale, that's for sure. Hope he continues, having come out of that recent Ren'Py conversion.

Patreon checks based on reports. So if someone reports actual content in the game, they'll point that out, but I don't think they actually play through the games itself. That said, it varies between content moderator. Some creators have had very relaxed reviews, mine included. The moderator just quoted some Patreon boilerplate and after my assurances everything was in order, the ban was lifted.

That review was prompted by those Italian scammers reselling games on their own website, right? I'm curious what steps Patreon forced @Runey to make, has anything changed in Harem Hotel?

Patreon made me turn this:

Into this:

(visuals needed updating anyway)

 

[79flavors]

Patreon generally doesn't know anything unless someone reports something, they aren't playing through the game to find stuff to review. They just look at the name of the game and posts the account makes.

Aye.

And I suppose that's one aspect I'm looking for direct confirmation about.
I mean... I can assume they don't look at code. I can even code as if they did. But if someone actually knows, that's so much better than any assumptions on my part.

At the end of this day, this isn't "my" problem. Which isn't to say I'm not interested in the answer.

 

[User_920791]

Cheers. I'm already very familiar with that thread.

It makes the assumption that Patreon are all seeing and all knowing. Which may or may not be the case... Which is partly what I'm trying to figure out.

In fact, that procedure is more focused on protecting the developer from certain reports coming from haters.

If all prohibited content is included directly in the game code (Milfy City, for example) and your account receive a report showing in detail that you are breaking the rules, you are screwed.

 

[Perverteer]

My Patreon page hasn't been taken down, I was just put into contact with someone at Patreon. But I think I can still help a little bit.

Patreon aren't playing these games. I would say they never will, but I don't want those words to bite me in the ass some day. They're actually just getting reports from players, real or not. As Jamdan mentioned, Patreon contacted me telling me Ashley looked too young, so I informed them that she's 19, and clearly stated in the game she's 19, and clearly shown in game that she isn't meant to be or look or act under aged, so they settled on letting me change her clothes, or change her breast size.

You can show Patreon your side of the story, but no matter what, don't fight them. People get banned off Patreon for fighting a decision. Rather let them know your side, and accept whatever they want you to do.

For incest, they want you to make which ever characters be not related. I assume you just need to change "sister" to "childhood friend" or something similar.



Patreon made me turn this:

Into this:

(visuals needed updating anyway)

Rather arbitrary choice, changing her boobs or her clothing. I'm happy you didn't chose the boobs.

I'm not entirely sure what made the difference for Patreon, or maybe just the willingness to change the content was enough for them.

Antagonizing them isn't going to work, I agree. I think that's why Mr. Dots was treated so severely. He almost taunted them by handing out the code to unlock the incest in the comments, so they had to show him they were serious at one point.

In fact, that procedure is more focused on protecting the developer from certain reports coming from haters.

If all prohibited content is included directly in the game code (Milfy City, for example) and your account receive a report showing in detail that you are breaking the rules, you are screwed.

That would get a lot of high-profile creators in hot water. I think Dr. Sin's latest game, created in Unity, also has the offending content in the game's code. Unity is a little harder to decompile compared to Ren'Py, but still...

 

[79flavors]

In fact, that procedure is more focused on protecting the developer from certain reports coming from haters.

Hmmm. I hadn't thought about the other thread that way. Good point.

Though you mention Milfy City. Has that ever been under review?
You appear to be highlighting it as being potentially at risk... and looking at the code, there's definitely a lot of if renpy.loadable("patch.rpy"): in the last version I downloaded... but has it ever cause a problem for the dev?

Don't get me wrong. I'm as much a fan of highly complex, over the top solutions as the next programmer...
... but if Patreon are only looking at the Patreon page itself and the comments... then why create a headache for yourself?

 

[recreation]

Hmmm. I hadn't thought about the other thread that way. Good point.

Though you mention Milfy City. Has that ever been under review?
You appear to be highlighting it as being potentially at risk... and looking at the code, there's definitely a lot of if renpy.loadable("patch.rpy"): in the last version I downloaded... but has it ever cause a problem for the dev?

Don't get me wrong. I'm as much a fan of highly complex, over the top solutions as the next programmer...
... but if Patreon are only looking at the Patreon page itself and the comments... then why create a headache for yourself?

Easiest solution: Don't make the game accessible via patreon. As far as I know most of the patreons know the game before they pledge and therefore know how to get it elsewhere.

 

[User_920791]

Hmmm. I hadn't thought about the other thread that way. Good point.

Though you mention Milfy City. Has that ever been under review?
You appear to be highlighting it as being potentially at risk... and looking at the code, there's definitely a lot of if renpy.loadable("patch.rpy"): in the last version I downloaded... but has it ever cause a problem for the dev?

Don't get me wrong. I'm as much a fan of highly complex, over the top solutions as the next programmer...
... but if Patreon are only looking at the Patreon page itself and the comments... then why create a headache for yourself?

The case involving the website giochipremium has clearly demonstrated that any developer is at constant risk of receiving reports on their patreon accounts as a form of retaliation. In such a "hostile scenario", developers need to take certain precautions, even if this makes some aspects of the development more difficult.

 

[stevedave83]

Big thanks to 79flavors for starting this thread, and to everyone who has chimed in so far. I don't post here very often, but I do lurk quite a bit. I knew it was a matter of time before my page got suspended. I've been skirting the rules for quite some time and I knew I'd get busted eventually. I'm not about to put up a fight with Patreon. I know that they hold all the cards at this point. I am exploring other options, however. I have spent the last couple of days rewriting all of my existing dialogue for the current game, and I just scrubbed every post from my Patreon from before this month. I'm going to make some minor changes to some graphics tomorrow, then upload the new version of the game and submit my page for re-review.

I'm also looking seriously at other subscription services. The problem with Patreon is that it's kind of a necessary evil. They have the largest market share, which means we as creators get more visibility and discoverability. What we need are more creators to jump ship and switch to another platform en masse. I don't think Patreon will miss us...in fact, they'll probably be glad to see us go. I don't want to do it to 'hurt' them, but rather to save our community. If enough creators went to another platform, we would take subscribers with us and we would be able to thrive with fewer restrictions on our content.

I'm currently waiting on my Subscribestar page to be reviewed. Apparently, it takes some time, due to an influx of new creators. I suppose that's a good thing. Maybe an exodus is already happening. I'm considering restructuring my pricing tier, offering better benefits at lower levels in order to entice my existing supporters to switch over. Does anyone have any thought on Subscribestar? I haven't found a lot of adult video game or VN makers on their page, but I do know that Mr. Dots is testing it as an option and hasn't seemed to have any problems as yet. He's even attracting supporters at a pretty good rate. I also know that PayPal pulled from Subscribestar a few months ago and demanded that they institute broad, sweeping content guidelines to which Subscribestar replied (essentially) 'go fuck yourself'. The fact that they have the guts to stand up to PP is a HUGE deal to me.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Perverteer]

I've been following SubscribeStar for a while and with the split they've created between the erotica (on subscribestar.adult) and the other stuff, I think they have a chance of becoming a viable platform. The fees have gone up, which is supposedly because they had to switch to a high risk payment processor.

SubscribeStar supposedly knows they're handling risky content, so I hope they stand a chance against the power of the credit card companies and aren't forced to implement stricter rules. I just hope the erotica doesn't become a victim of one of a political controversy generated by their more political "stars".

Mr. Dots is doing quite well over there, finally getting some support for Dating My Daughter again. I've created

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as well and will be offering the uncensored versions of Sisterly Lust there, included the Extra Scenes edition for PC, Mac and Android. The review team of SubscribeStar doesn't seem to have a problem with the overt references to incest and the other fetishes I've listed, so so far, so good.

 

[EpicLust]

I haven't been under review despite my game having incest and underage teen characters.
Why?
Because I don't post links of the game on my patreon page. I email my processed patrons with the link.
So I'm not breaking any rules. Even if a player reported me, there's nothing patreon could do since I'm not posting links from their actual platform.

 

[recreation]

I haven't been under review despite my game having incest and underage teen characters.
Why?
Because I don't post links of the game on my patreon page. I email my processed patrons with the link.
So I'm not breaking any rules. Even if a player reported me, there's nothing patreon could do since I'm not posting links from their actual platform.

I'm doing the same, my patreon is basically empty and everything I posted so far is SFW despite being marked as 18+
Anyway I'm under review for 2 days now...