Are there Awards and if not why?

fakemail77

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Jan 3, 2019
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I like Awards! Must not even be with a prize but it gives recognition to good games and its a way to find new games if your looking for them!
What do you think about it and what categories would the f95zone awards need?
I saw there was something like it in 2018 but i didnt find the results just a thread that asks for nominees..
Wasnt it popular in the end?
 

anne O'nymous

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What do you think about it and what categories would the f95zone awards need?
Just look at all the threads talking about how inaccurate ratings are, about how reviews are full of bullshit, and about how many games are overrated.

Not only having awards would only had threads saying that the said awards are decided by people who know nothing, but also it would not "gives recognition to good games". Games that are overrated would receive all the prizes, and good game underrated would stay hidden ; worse, those underrated games would be seen as even shittier since they didn't even made it to the final list.

If awards there's, they should be decided by people who effectively have a strong knowledge in game making, artistic creation, writing (both dialogs and stories), and that are impartial. But there's no one here that check them all, and too few that check most of them.
 

fakemail77

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Jan 3, 2019
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Just look at all the threads talking about how inaccurate ratings are, about how reviews are full of bullshit, and about how many games are overrated.

Not only having awards would only had threads saying that the said awards are decided by people who know nothing, but also it would not "gives recognition to good games". Games that are overrated would receive all the prizes, and good game underrated would stay hidden ; worse, those underrated games would be seen as even shittier since they didn't even made it to the final list.

If awards there's, they should be decided by people who effectively have a strong knowledge in game making, artistic creation, writing (both dialogs and stories), and that are impartial. But there's no one here that check them all, and too few that check most of them.
I know from my job that a mix always is the best!
Suggestions could be made by anyone and then the "experts" could decide or the other way around.
For me its hard to find games i like for the same reasons you gave but it would be fatal just to sit around and not even try to give good games a platform
 

Droid Productions

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If awards there's, they should be decided by people who effectively have a strong knowledge in game making, artistic creation, writing (both dialogs and stories), and that are impartial. But there's no one here that check them all, and too few that check most of them.
GameDevs, but you're ineligible from voting for any game where you're a developer or supporter?

But that very quickly becomes an in-crowd thing; a lot of us play so many of these games that our tastes go out of synch with the players. I guess making it a gamedev thing would make it into an 'Oscars'-style award; I suspect it would premier the more cerebral games, like DeLuca and Light of My Life, or the game that try new things, or experiment with the art-form, games that change up the visual framing or style. It wouldn't necessarily map to popularity, but it would be an interesting alternative, I guess.
 

Baka_Energy_studios

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Awards are stupid. Has anyone watched any movie that got an Oscar? Not really.
Has anyone watched one pornmovie that got an AVN award? Probably not.
Anyone watched a BAFTA awarded movie? Nope.
Did someone watched a movie that was praised on the Cannes film festival? No-o.
There are dozens upon dozens of those awards and award shows in movie, tv, games, literature and so on which i don´t care for
because those are reigned by a "selected" board of judges who think they know better what i like than myself.
I don´t say that some of those movies didn´t deserve an award but most of us never watch those films
or sometimes even heard of them. Award shows are selfpraising wankshows most of the time for a miniscule
minority of people and so are the awards that they give away.
 

fakemail77

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Jan 3, 2019
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Awards are stupid. Has anyone watched any movie that got an Oscar? Not really.
Has anyone watched one pornmovie that got an AVN award? Probably not.
Anyone watched a BAFTA awarded movie? Nope.
Did someone watched a movie that was praised on the Cannes film festival? No-o.
There are dozens upon dozens of those awards and award shows in movie, tv, games, literature and so on which i don´t care for
because those are reigned by a "selected" board of judges who think they know better what i like than myself.
I don´t say that some of those movies didn´t deserve an award but most of us never watch those films
or sometimes even heard of them. Award shows are selfpraising wankshows most of the time for a miniscule
minority of people and so are the awards that they give away.
I like the Steam Awards!
 

anne O'nymous

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GameDevs, but you're ineligible from voting for any game where you're a developer or supporter?
Are they really better for this ?
Obviously, if someone like Philly, Hopes or Nottravis way that "those renders suck", I'll believe them without question ; they clearly know what they talk about. But they are artists, therefore most of their talent is instinctive, what make difficult to effectively judge what others do. It's not how they would have done it, but does it really mean that it's bad ?
I have the same problem when I look at the code of games. I can tell when a code really suck, but it's more difficult to say when it's a good one. Yet it's the most technical part of game making, the one where the artistic part is the less significant.
And it's where your comparison with Oscars is relevant. The jury either fall for the artistic view or at the opposite limit to the pure technical aspect.


I suspect it would premier the more cerebral games, like DeLuca and Light of My Life,
And continue to forgot about pure gems like Heavy Five, that have absolutely nothing to envy to those two.

This said, the fact that you named Light of My Life is a good illustration of what I said above. Technically it's a really good game, with an amazingly good writing. A so good writing that, being a widow myself, I just can't play it. It's not the only story involving a widow, but the only one that carry the emotion so perfectly that it hurt playing it. But practically speaking, there's flaws in the story, the CG are average (latex-like clothes, visual rarely effectively accurate, etc.), and few more that I forgot.
And it's the same for The DeLuca Family. Hopes know that I'm in love with his game, but despite all its qualities, the story isn't for everyone because family's members are too cartoonish. It's what make the game amazing, but also what make some people say that it's totally overrated and stupid.



To this have to be added the reaction of some morons around there. If an overrated game don't win an award, be sure that you'll hear them talk shit about the jury and its supposed jealousy because "this game" have more success than their stupid own game.
It works for the Oscars because there's tenths thousands of persons to vote, even just for the initial list. It don't prevent the result to be contestable, but at least it feel right, just based on wrong criterias. But here there just too few peoples in position to effectively judge, for awards to works smoothly.
 
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Droid Productions

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It works for the Oscars because there's tenths thousands of persons to vote, even just for the initial list. It don't prevent the result to be contestable, but at least it feel right, just based on wrong criterias. But here there just too few peoples in position to effectively judge, for awards to works smoothly.
There's a lot of devs, as these things go... Probably 200-300 that are active here. Some are great, some are just starting, but if you're looking for a baseline of "people who at least understand some part of the craft", that's not a bad sub-section. It'll help filter out the "blockbuster" syndrome; people voting for what's popular so the awards looks identical to the top 10 games list.
 
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HandofVecna

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I'd like to see something. Have Devs vote for most of the awards in my opinion but have a peoples choice category too.
20XX
1. Best New Game of 20XX - Devs and Players
2. Best New Screen Play - Devs
3. Best New RPGM - Devs
4. Best New VN - Devs
5. Best New Art -
6. Best New Animations
7. Best New Mechanics
etc.
Then
1. Best Game 20XX - Devs and Players
etc etc.

It would be a lot of work as you'd need people to submit candidates for each category and you would need to whittle it down somehow for each category to like five and then you'd need to do a poll for each and get Devs and Players to vote.

I think if you are/were a Dev it would lend some credence to your whittling down of 100 games to 5 or whatever. Like why did people listen to Ebert? Because he had gone to film school and directed a movie. Otherwise you'd likely be just another dude in the dark maybe.

I'd probably stick to the Best New for the year. It would help new developers get some exposure as they already get drowned out by the big boys a bit.

Good luck.
 
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fakemail77

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Jan 3, 2019
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There need to be people that take care of the awards that rly want them to be good. If not the awards will probably be rather useless. It wasnt my intention to say that there need to be some kind of award, I just wanted to start a discussion..

I think there is no need to be pessemistic! It takes work to make some good awards but i believe that it could be good and I like the Idea HandofVecna had and I think Droid Productions is right that its possible to get good games into the awards if a good selection of devs play a role in the planning. In another comment you said that only devs would be counter productive too because its not all about the craft. Thats why I think that the awards need trusted users that are actively writing reviews that people like and trust.
 
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Nottravis

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Obviously, if someone like Philly, Hopes or Nottravis way that "those renders suck", I'll believe them without question ; they clearly know what they talk about. But they are artists
*blinks*

*is just a scrappy underdog!*
 

Nottravis

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I'd like to see something. Have Devs vote for most of the awards in my opinion but have a peoples choice category too.
20XX
1. Best New Game of 20XX - Devs and Players
2. Best New Screen Play - Devs
3. Best New RPGM - Devs
4. Best New VN - Devs
5. Best New Art -
6. Best New Animations
7. Best New Mechanics
etc.
Then
1. Best Game 20XX - Devs and Players
etc etc.

It would be a lot of work as you'd need people to submit candidates for each category and you would need to whittle it down somehow for each category to like five and then you'd need to do a poll for each and get Devs and Players to vote.

I think if you are/were a Dev it would lend some credence to your whittling down of 100 games to 5 or whatever. Like why did people listen to Ebert? Because he had gone to film school and directed a movie. Otherwise you'd likely be just another dude in the dark maybe.

I'd probably stick to the Best New for the year. It would help new developers get some exposure as they already get drowned out by the big boys a bit.

Good luck.
I think this has some mileage as an idea. If we had just a single "best game" going to a popular vote, well we could draw up a list of three or four now and call it a night.

But categories....that could well spread the load around a bit. One of the things I like about film awards etc is they sometimes do highlight something I might have missed. Not always ofc but if I've never heard of something and it gets an award for best screenplay or something I might just check it out.

The challenge tho, as others have said is ...who judges? And there are a lot of games out there these days for the poor bastards to have to shift through.

That said just because something is hard to do doesn't mean we shouldn't think about it.



Edit: I'd also lobby for a "scrappy underdog" award as well or "most renders made on a single PC" award because..... ;)
 
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anne O'nymous

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It'll help filter out the "blockbuster" syndrome; people voting for what's popular so the awards looks identical to the top 10 games list.
Yes they can, possibly, filter the list, but it would still be a too small jury.

[Note: I use "you", but it's not a criticism, nor effectively directed to you. It's plural, so "all the devs that would be members of the jury"]

Firstly the list will still be limited to the games they tried, therefore some games deserving an award will still be totally forgotten, because missed by a too big part of the jury. There's around 2000 living games, do you really have the time to test at least a fourth of them, and to test them seriously enough to be able to judge them ? This in just a month, because it's obviously the last update that have to be judged. Even if you follow most of them regularly, it will take all your month, so no job and no works on your game, just testing and testing.
Testing less than that would make the selection insignificant ; hidden gems would not have been tested by enough people to make it into the selection. In fact, even testing just a fourth of the games can be too small. Every one will test the most popular games, mostly because they already play them, and lets say 200 other games. Therefore, like you said, great popular games will have 70% of the votes or more, while hidden gems will have what ? At max 20% of them, not enough to be in the list even if they are better than the ones that will finally be awarded.
And recommendation between members of the jury isn't the answer here. If someone say, "hey, you should try this game, it's a hidden gem", those who'll do it would play it with a positive bias that will prevent them to see the flaw missed by those who recommended the game. And it will also make the jury focus on some games, so forgot even more some more deeply hidden gems.

Secondly, do you really think that you can project enough in the future to judge a story ? Most of the games are works in progress, to see if the writing is good or not, you need to see where it seem to lead. A game like Shatered, by example, is a pure gem, but it needed four/five updates before the accuracy of the writing effectively hit the players ; before that it looked like an uselessly too verbose writing.
And there's also games like Love And Submission, alas abandoned because life happened. The relation between the MC and his neighbors is seen in the dialogs and story right from the first update, but it's only when they finally say it louder that it became obvious. Do you think that you're in position to judge such writing ?
Many (well, all is relative) people say that I have good eyes for this, yet I don't feel that I can judge. Until the moment it's finally explicitly stated by the story, it's just subjective speculations. And before this moment, it can be sign of great writing skills, as well as it can be sign of a totally incoherent writing. It's not impossible to make the difference between the two, but you need to look at the game in its whole for this, to give 110% of your attention to each single CG and text of the game, for 500 games, in a month, while working because you need to live, and also while making your game.

Thirdly there's the kinks, genre and fetishes of the game. Do you think that you can judge if a femdom, sissy, gay, whatever, story is accurately wrote ? Take femdom games by example. I like the genre in stories, but it's not my kink in real life, therefore I can't say if it's correctly wrote or not. All I can say is that it feel right for someone who like this kind of stories. But it can be totally stupid and outside of the reality for someone who is effectively into femdom.
Of course, with 200/300 devs in the jury, there will be some that are really familiar with the kinks, genre or fetishes, and that can say "this is accurate". But whatever they can say, if you really dislike this kink, genre or fetish, you'll not be able to see the positive points in the game. Many, even among devs, hate NTR, and few among them would be able to bypass this bias and possibly give their vote to a NTR game.


It works for the Oscars, and also music, book and all, because among the members of the jury, there's critics ; people who do nothing else than judge movies/musics/books, that learned how to do it, and that also learned with the time to make abstraction of their own taste. Yet, like you implied, there's still bias in the end.
But there's no such persons in the community.


The challenge tho, as others have said is ...who judges?
Which is my main point. I'm 100% for awards, just because they would do good on your shelf, but I know that it's not something that can happen actually, and even less be done here. It would need to include the whole scene, so VNDB, LewdPixels, LewdGamers, and others, not just one of the communities, even if it's the biggest, that is part of the scene.


Edit: I'd also lobby for a "scrappy underdog" award as well or "most renders made on a single PC" award because..... ;)
Too soon for a "most computers blown up" award ?
 
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Papa Lewd

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I'm not going to pretend to know what the best way would be to go about it, but if done right, I think it could be a great thing for the community and industry. There are definitely valid concerns and many ways it could go wrong, but it would be really interesting to see how it could be done. I especially like the idea of having many unique categories to highlight things that some lesser known games could really benefit from.