Behind Closed Doors - New game cast poll

Favorite Cast Member

  • Wife

    Votes: 3 13.0%
  • Older Sister

    Votes: 9 39.1%
  • Younger Sister

    Votes: 13 56.5%
  • Son's Girlfriend

    Votes: 7 30.4%

  • Total voters
    23

kgirlffx

Member
Nov 9, 2019
276
427
Making a new game called "Behind Closed Doors," and would love feedback on the main female cast. Please vote the two you like the most, and comment in thread why!


All feedback is helpful to make the game that you want to play most. So don't by shy, once I have them locked in I'll be spinning out renders so hard to change later.



Wife Red Spot Light Pose.png Wife1Front.png Wife1Side.png Older Sister Blue Light.png MainOlderFace1.png MainOlderFaceSide1.png Young Sister Green Light SPot Rocket.png YoungMainFace1.png Son's GF Yellow Light.png GirlFriendFront.png GirlFriendside.png
 

desmosome

Conversation Conqueror
Sep 5, 2018
6,186
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Is this the NTR game?

Just to make sure, those older and younger sister are the MC's son's sisters right (aka MC's daughters)? Their age wouldn't make sense if it was MC's siblings.
 

desmosome

Conversation Conqueror
Sep 5, 2018
6,186
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Yes, a NTR first path, harem/domination second path game. Main cast is MC's wife, daughters, and son's GF.
Cool. Is it still the "old friend" that is the antagonist? Father+son getting double NTRed is always hilarious lol.
 
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desmosome

Conversation Conqueror
Sep 5, 2018
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So you are going with the NTR route vs Harem domination route right?

What is your plans for the route determination? Is it a fluid thing that is occurring within a single common storyline? For example, there is a free flowing story and at various junctions, you check the variables and display the appropriate scene. Or are you planning on doing a route locking style where you pick at the beginning or enter into a specific route early in the game?

There are pros and cons to both styles. The single common story lets the players feel a bit more involved, and some people really do enjoy having a fail condition while they work on beating the antagonist and claiming the girls for themselves. The very big issue with this is that it's incredibly hard to write and code for this in a way that satisfies both routes. It very often leads to holes in the story and character motivations, or it ends up sacrificing one route to better set up the other route. For example, there are many examples of NTR games that give a cursory non-NTR route which is kinda shitty in comparison. Others have optional NTR that is just minor additions that don't even feel like NTR because the common story cannot function if the girls are really being stolen or whatever.

Route locking early on lets you cater the story progression specifically for that route, but it could seem like there is less agency for the player. That said, you could route lock and then create subroutes to get the players involved more. For example, the NTR could have the various subtypes of NTR while the Harem route could split into love vs domination subroutes. That said, more subroutes means more work, so there is always that tradeoff too.

Just some food for thought. Good luck on the game. I look forward to playing it.
 

kgirlffx

Member
Nov 9, 2019
276
427
So you are going with the NTR route vs Harem domination route right?

What is your plans for the route determination? Is it a fluid thing that is occurring within a single common storyline? For example, there is a free flowing story and at various junctions, you check the variables and display the appropriate scene. Or are you planning on doing a route locking style where you pick at the beginning or enter into a specific route early in the game?

There are pros and cons to both styles. The single common story lets the players feel a bit more involved, and some people really do enjoy having a fail condition while they work on beating the antagonist and claiming the girls for themselves. The very big issue with this is that it's incredibly hard to write and code for this in a way that satisfies both routes. It very often leads to holes in the story and character motivations, or it ends up sacrificing one route to better set up the other route. For example, there are many examples of NTR games that give a cursory non-NTR route which is kinda shitty in comparison. Others have optional NTR that is just minor additions that don't even feel like NTR because the common story cannot function if the girls are really being stolen or whatever.

Route locking early on lets you cater the story progression specifically for that route, but it could seem like there is less agency for the player. That said, you could route lock and then create subroutes to get the players involved more. For example, the NTR could have the various subtypes of NTR while the Harem route could split into love vs domination subroutes. That said, more subroutes means more work, so there is always that tradeoff too.

Just some food for thought. Good luck on the game. I look forward to playing it.

Thanks, will be a while until a intro demo is out, but this is a passion project - making the kind of game I would want to play - so excited it is getting off the ground.

I am still working through how I want to approach the route split. I keep going back and forth on route locking.

I'm open to opinion on this and have not 100% come down one way or the other yet.

My current prevailing thought process is to do a true route with player choice and consequence. Meaning, you can end up with a harem, NTR, or some split - like kept the Older Daughter but lost the Younger and Wife.

AND

Also offer a pure NTR path and a pure Harem path.

My method to do this would mostly be changing certain point values of choices in the pure paths to ensure it is impossible to not achieve said goal. This would allow players to see the kind of story they want with no chance of seeing anything else, or to go in bare knuckled and fight it out with the Old Friend if they so choose.

I'm not too concerned about either route being less interesting. I have plenty of ideas that would appeal to both crowds. No boring sex scenes for one and pure kink for the other.

My only concern with this method is that it will take longer. I have seen a lot of angry fans in game threads that one route got a patch over their preferred path, and vice versa.

Then again, it is impossible to make everyone happy all the time.
 
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desmosome

Conversation Conqueror
Sep 5, 2018
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Thanks, will be a while until a intro demo is out, but this is a passion project - making the kind of game I would want to play - so excited it is getting off the ground.

I am still working through how I want to approach the route split. I keep going back and forth on route locking.

I'm open to opinion on this and have not 100% come down one way or the other yet.

My current prevailing thought process is to do a true route with player choice and consequence. Meaning, you can end up with a harem, NTR, or some split - like kept the Older Daughter but lost the Younger and Wife.

AND

Also offer a pure NTR path and a pure Harem path.

My method to do this would mostly be changing certain point values of choices in the pure paths to ensure it is impossible to not achieve said goal. This would allow players to see the kind of story they want with no chance of seeing anything else, or to go in bare knuckled and fight it out with the Old Friend if they so choose.

I'm not too concerned about either route being less interesting. I have plenty of ideas that would appeal to both crowds. No boring sex scenes for one and pure kink for the other.

My only concern with this method is that it will take longer. I have seen a lot of angry fans in game threads that one route got a patch over their preferred path, and vice versa.

Then again, it is impossible to make everyone happy all the time.
It's worth thinking about. The real problem with a common story that incorporates both routes is not really that players might pick the wrong stuff and end up in wrong routes. That's easy to deal with. The biggest issue in any game that offers routes like (love vs corruption, good vs evil, male dom vs fem dom, NTR vs non-NTR) is maintaining the correct character progression, motivations, personality, and story progression. This is because there will obviously be common lines of dialogue or internal monologues that are independent of variables. In so many games, these common lines of text are leaning too much to one route or even inconsistent with possible events that happened on various routes. The MC might look bipolar and all over the place mentally. The girls might act in the wrong way.

There are a couple ways devs try to deal with such issues.
  1. Make the common route dialogues neutral so that it could fit both routes. That said, trying to do this in and of itself is a constraint on the set up and progression of both routes when it's diametrically opposed. That leads to the next method.
  2. Make a shitload of conditionals. Whenever you have a conversation, check for flags and variables to display the fitting dialogue. Check variables and conditionals to change the events that trigger. Make conditional internal monologues.
That #2 method is essentially similar to route locking in effect (if a player picks consistent choices for a route). It does let you be more fluid in going in and out of routes and things like that, but it's a huge amount of work. If you were doing a dom route, but throw the run and slip into NTR later on, can the game keep track of this turn of events and react accordingly? We can also look at the possibility you laid out. If you dominate the wife but the daughters are NTRed, that would be a HUGE shift in the relationship dynamics of these characters. You need to essentially create a unique route for that possibility and every other combination, OR you need to keep all those characters compartmentalized and unable to interact too much with each other. So we end up with the dilemma of making concessions in storytelling or adding a truckload of work in coding and writing the variations (Check out Our Red Strings for an example of massive conditional variations).

I think a single story with variations can work for personality types like good vs evil. It's obviously used in the vast majority of choice based VNs to various degrees. NTR is a special case though because it requires so much set up and dedicated progression in the story. Plus, NTR is diametrically opposed to a Dominant MC route. I can kinda see NTR vs loving husband/father work out in a single plot. A loving husband is generally an easy target for NTR, so it shouldn't feel that out of place if you slip into NTR later on after building up a loving relationship. I personally don't like asshole/dominant MC getting NTRed in general, so maybe take this next point with a grain of salt. I think it would be harder to make a consistent story that mixes this type of MC with a possible NTR route.

Basically, route locking is a shortcut for the dev. You can make a very different set of events and story progression on those routes without too much worry (although that leads to more writing as well). It's less elegant, but probably MUCH easier to manage for a first time dev.

Sorry for the long ass posts. It's just my personal opinion. There is no right answer. Anything is possible, but some plans require more work for potentially greater payoffs.
 
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kgirlffx

Member
Nov 9, 2019
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It's worth thinking about. The real problem with a common story that incorporates both routes is not really that players might pick the wrong stuff and end up in wrong routes. That's easy to deal with. The biggest issue in any game that offers routes like (love vs corruption, good vs evil, male dom vs fem dom, NTR vs non-NTR) is maintaining the correct character progression, motivations, personality, and story progression. This is because there will obviously be common lines of dialogue or internal monologues that are independent of variables. In so many games, these common lines of text are leaning too much to one route or even inconsistent with possible events that happened on various routes. The MC might look bipolar and all over the place mentally. The girls might act in the wrong way.

There are a couple ways devs try to deal with such issues.
  1. Make the common route dialogues neutral so that it could fit both routes. That said, trying to do this in and of itself is a constraint on the set up and progression of both routes when it's diametrically opposed. That leads to the next method.
  2. Make a shitload of conditionals. Whenever you have a conversation, check for flags and variables to display the fitting dialogue. Check variables and conditionals to change the events that trigger. Make conditional internal monologues.
That #2 method is essentially similar to route locking in effect (if a player picks consistent choices for a route). It does let you be more fluid in going in and out of routes and things like that, but it's a huge amount of work. If you were doing a dom route, but throw the run and slip into NTR later on, can the game keep track of this turn of events and react accordingly? We can also look at the possibility you laid out. If you dominate the wife but the daughters are NTRed, that would be a HUGE shift in the relationship dynamics of these characters. You need to essentially create a unique route for that possibility and every other combination, OR you need to keep all those characters compartmentalized and unable to interact too much with each other. So we end up with the dilemma of making concessions in storytelling or adding a truckload of work in coding and writing the variations (Check out Our Red Strings for an example of massive conditional variations).

I think a single story with variations can work for personality types like good vs evil. It's obviously used in the vast majority of choice based VNs to various degrees. NTR is a special case though because it requires so much set up and dedicated progression in the story. Plus, NTR is diametrically opposed to a Dominant MC route. I can kinda see NTR vs loving husband/father work out in a single plot. A loving husband is generally an easy target for NTR, so it shouldn't feel that out of place if you slip into NTR later on after building up a loving relationship. I personally don't like asshole/dominant MC getting NTRed in general, so maybe take this next point with a grain of salt. I think it would be harder to make a consistent story that mixes this type of MC with a possible NTR route.

Basically, route locking is a shortcut for the dev. You can make a very different set of events and story progression on those routes without too much worry (although that leads to more writing as well). It's less elegant, but probably MUCH easier to manage for a first time dev.

Sorry for the long ass posts. It's just my personal opinion. There is no right answer. Anything is possible, but some plans require more work for potentially greater payoffs.
Sorry it took a while for my response.

I appreciate long posts and lots of thought, so no problem there.


I am a bit torn on the direction. Once I settle I don't intend to change as that would cause a mess in the code. Strict routes would be easier - a lot easier. But, in my opinion, much less fun.

I want there to be a real competitive element to this game. I want players to feel like they could win, or lose. Now, they could lose intentionally over and over to be NTR'ed, but that is their choice - not a requirement. I would also like the situation at any given time to be fluid. Obviously certain plot points will happen that are static and change the situation, but how you get to those points should be fluid, and the situation that you arrive there different based on how you played.

To do so, as you noted, this means variables, and lots of them. Which on its own is not too hard or even time consuming. The hard of variables is more a organizational issue than a technical issue. That, and story continuity and renders. It would not be hard to have a variable that shows younger daughter NTR lvl 4, wife ntr 1, older sister pure 2, and such. To me the hard part is in the sheer number of additional renders and story boards that need to happen to make this fluidity.

Another issue with the fluid-style story is that it takes longer due to the extra work. Meaning, players will be frustrated. Players will especially be frustrated if they feel 'their' content is getting a back seat. For instance, whenever a more ntr focused patch rolls out, the vanilla players will be upset. Whenever a vanilla content patch rolls, the ntr people will be upset.

Strict routes eliminates that issue.

or, I could just be upfront and clear that every patch will see both styles of content and will take longer - which then adds the story need to always have both kinds of content at the same time, which will not always organically happen.


I'm mulling around some more complex ideas but they are not fully formed enough to discuss. I think there may be a happy middle ground though.
 
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desmosome

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Sep 5, 2018
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To do so, as you noted, this means variables, and lots of them. Which on its own is not too hard or even time consuming. The hard of variables is more a organizational issue than a technical issue. That, and story continuity and renders. It would not be hard to have a variable that shows younger daughter NTR lvl 4, wife ntr 1, older sister pure 2, and such. To me the hard part is in the sheer number of additional renders and story boards that need to happen to make this fluidity.
Exactly. I mean, even I can code variables and flags on renpy, and I don't actually know coding. I was talking precisely about supporting those variables and the resulting variability in the story and character interactions.

This is a question of feasibility and how ambitious you want to get to satisfy your vision. If you are confident that you can create a free flowing narrative that can honor the players choices throughout and present a consistent story/characters for each variation, then go for it. Frankly, it doesn't even have to be perfect. There is "good enough" that is still very satisfying. It's just that there is a drop off point where it goes from "good enough" to "detrimental to the storytelling" if you are not careful.

If you think you will regret it and lose motivation by compromising on your vision, then absolutely go with your preferred style. Better to have tried than wonder what could have been.
 

kgirlffx

Member
Nov 9, 2019
276
427
Well, wife looks good. Glad I kept reading though. View attachment 1885694


Thank you for the feedback. Intention is to at some point have a route where NTR is impossible that would appeal more to romance/dom preferences.

Out of curiosity, would you be interested in the game if you could play from the PoV of the Antagonist corrupting Johns family instead of only as John facing NTR? A NTR path with the John PoV would still exist, but only for those who wanted it.

Or is the corruption elements/cheating element, even if it is you doing the taking, simply not of interest?