RPGM Below the Fold [Ep.5 R2] [iLTinoBambino]

[TinoBambino]

If there is no art... That means that text is the strong point of this game? Are there long conversations and detailled descriptions of scenes and situations? Or just the clasic two or three lines of text of most of this kind of games?

It's a dialogue driven story analogous to a binge watch. It's like if Riverdale had nudity. There isn't any third person narration and any props the characters use are visible to the player. At no point is there a text box like "She walks up to the door and opens it."

However I truly believe that what exists now is adequately erotic, there current amount of art and the sprites paint enough of a picture to titillate the senses. Art is my number one focus now that the gameplay and story segments are locked in, however.

Any single conversation isn't very long on its own, but there is 60-80 minutes of an introductory sequence before the player is put in the interactive portion of the game, which is capped off by a 20 minute outro. Further episodes will have 20-30 minute intros and outros. This was done for two reasons:

I hate when I'm in control of a character before there is any choice. Too many western RPGM games start with a little city to explore, but only one place to go at a time for 6 months of updates. I just skipped that whole part of my dev cycle.

I'm trying to capture the magic of late 90s, 2000s sci-fi and fantasy TV like Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Stargate, and Battlestar Galactica which opened with movies/mini series.

 

[88Michele88]

It's a dialogue driven story analogous to a binge watch. It's like if Riverdale had nudity. There isn't any third person narration and any props the characters use are visible to the player. At no point is there a text box like "She walks up to the door and opens it."

However I truly believe that what exists now is adequately erotic, there current amount of art and the sprites paint enough of a picture to titillate the senses. Art is my number one focus now that the gameplay and story segments are locked in, however.

Any single conversation isn't very long on its own, but there is 60-80 minutes of an introductory sequence before the player is put in the interactive portion of the game, which is capped off by a 20 minute outro. Further episodes will have 20-30 minute intros and outros. This was done for two reasons:

I hate when I'm in control of a character before there is any choice. Too many western RPGM games start with a little city to explore, but only one place to go at a time for 6 months of updates. I just skipped that whole part of my dev cycle.

I'm trying to capture the magic of late 90s, 2000s sci-fi and fantasy TV like Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Stargate, and Battlestar Galactica which opened with movies/mini series.

I hate when i don't con do anything in intro o outro, i wont able to choise phat or situation, I hate when it be imposed in al games.

 

[TinoBambino]

I hate when i don't con do anything in intro o outro, i wont able to choise phat or situation, I hate when it be imposed in al games.

I understand your position. I went back and forth between a few different ideas while developing the story of Below the Fold, initially starting with an amnesiac player character to better facilitate a more sandbox-y, player character as player avatar feel.
Over multiple story drafts and a significant paring down of the sci-fi elements in the day-to-day gameplay, I ended up increasing the amount of dramatic potential several times over by putting you in the shoes of rounded off and complete characters.

Choices can be made as to which story lines the player character actively pursues, and there are options to have scenes play out in different ways based on the player preference. However, you're still assuming the role of Amber Gold on her personal quest for truth, justice, and the pursuit of happiness.

There's a codec conversation in Metal Gear Solid 2 where Campbell breaks the fourth wall to suggest that the tactical espionage action of the Metal Gear franchise is in fact a type of role playing game. While you have an incredible amount of freedom in the ways you eliminate, evade, distract, and incapacitate enemies, at the end of the day you're still playing the role of Solid Snake, Raiden, Big Boss in those games.

Below the Fold borrows from the world building school of thought that produces games like those in The Witcher franchise, and not from the Bethesda approach to open worlds. There are pros and cons to both methods, I hear your criticism and take it to heart, but ultimately I decided the most enthralling perspective from which to enjoy my story is from that of the painstakingly authored experiences of my point-of-view characters Amber and Maple Gold.

 

[ciaoGintoki]

I just added a screenshot of the world map to hopefully alleviate some of your concerns. RPG Maker maps frustrate the hell out of me too. Thats why I put everything off of a central road, and disabled collision on most objects so you never have to move more than 20 or so grid spaces from one location to the next, and never find yourself stuck between a lamp post and a wandering NPC.

I knew I was basically volunteering for this early criticism when I decided to use RPGM, but I truly believe that most of the frustrations people have with RPG Maker is due to shitty devs who never ever cared about end user experience. I understand that pretty much everyone prefers exploration like the kind in an Akabur game where you just click on a world map, and so I tried my absolute best to replicate that in Below the Fold.

My main problem with the standard visual novel dialogue system is that, as a writer by trade, I simply can't escape the feeling that I'm just looking at paper dolls and reading some guy's script. I've always felt like the depth of characterization in JRPG style cutscenes far exceeds that of even the most well written visual novels because the motions of the actors makes it all seem just a little bit more real. Being aware of the space of the world, even when it's 2d pixel art, makes a huge difference in our ability to interface emotionally with the action on the screen.

There's a reason why Stardew Valley is almost certainly the most successful dating sim of all time, and that's because while the player is pursuing their own goals, NPCs are allowed to exist visually and spatially in a shared world. There's really no understating the effect that has on people emotionally.

There's a fairly popular ROM Hack of The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time that you may have heard of called Majora's Mask which features an extensive sidequest/romantic subplot about an innkeeper (historically one of the most under served characters in the history of videogame narratives) that resonated deeply with a generation of middle schoolers who stalked the low poly models of Anju and Kafei for hours and hours, trying to find the windows in their schedules that would allow their version of Link to save both the world and the marriage of the reused asset of the chicken lady from the previous game.

You're not wrong, I'm not right, but there's a reason I've elected to do things this way and I will stand on my sinking ship if I have to and defend my use of RPG Maker all the way down to the bottom of the ocean, where I will hopefully still be able to find an audience. I really hope if you do end up trusting me enough to give me a download that you are not disappointed. I'm here to entertain you guys with my story and I hope that I can at least make you smile a few times while you're saving and loading.

I for one am glad that you are using RPGM, i see a lot of successful hentai games that uses RPGM namely "Legend of Queen Opala, Fallen Makina and the city of ruins, Meritocracy of the Oni and Blade, The Heiress, Treasure Hunter Claire, Tiina Swordwoman of Scarlet Prison, Liz of the Tower, and Elise the Devil". And some of them are available on steam and has high positive reviews and downloads. I am not really a fan of Ren'py so i can't criticise it that much but some of it are not successful in a way and abandoned. Just look at Bone's Tale: The Manor, it is trending and updated because a lot of people really like that art style and story of it, and guess what its RPGM, i know that will be successful one day.

I totally agree with the "I'm just looking at paper dolls and reading some guy's script" xD, but their are a few exceptions tho like Kingdom of Deception, tho i'm really disappointed that KoD wasn't RPGM but that's just my opinion.

Hope you put more genres there like monsters and stuff to keep it more interesting(in my opinion anyways).

That being said, I don't even know how hard it is to create a game using RPGM and how frustrating it is on your end, but i am assuming that you are doing what you love and doing a heck of a great job at it. I really appreciate that you are making a game that is RPGM and hope to see more of the art style that you want for the game. Goodluck!

 

[Elven_D]

Jesus Christ the amount of exposition and filler story is absolutely insane. I understand this is supposed to be like a novel but the pacing between plot-points takes almost ages. However, playing more of the game it seems the story picks up. Just the beginning of the story seems way too long.

 

[TinoBambino]

Jesus Christ the amount of exposition and filler story is absolutely insane. I understand this is supposed to be like a novel but the pacing between plot-points takes almost ages. However, playing more of the game it seems the story picks up. Just the beginning of the story seems way too long.

I feel you buddy, but yeah you'll get to the action eventually and all the details in the beginning do matter. Episode 2 will have much less on rails story at the start, so rest easy knowing you slogged through something that will enrich your experience moving forward.

 

[selectivepaperclip]

I still think that the ability to block out a scene with sprites, and let my 'actors' move about a space as they deliver their lines is the best medium for the story I want to tell. I'm certainly chasing after the cinematic feel of classic scenes from games like Chrono Trigger and RPG Maker gets me closer to that place. I chose RPG Maker MV because it runs at 60fps (for some people) which feels more fluid.

I don't think I want the thing that you're selling, but props for having the conviction to Do A Thing and the words to back up why you're doing it.

If you think having the little RPGM people move around helps you tell the story, more power to you. It's a better reason than most who choose to author in RPGM could offer, which I often suspect is "I don't know how to open a text editor".

I personally cannot stand the artificially imposed delays that most RPGM games have, be it waiting for a character to walk across a screen, waiting for the text to blip-blip-blip into the window, waiting for fade-outs between maps, etc etc. It really grates the first time around and even more so on replay. But there's room for a lot of opinions in the world.

 

[TinoBambino]

I personally cannot stand the artificially imposed delays that most RPGM games have, be it waiting for a character to walk across a screen, waiting for the text to blip-blip-blip into the window, waiting for fade-outs between maps, etc etc. It really grates the first time around and even more so on replay. But there's room for a lot of opinions in the world.

Yeah man I know what you're talking about and I 100% agree with you. The first thing I do when I open an RPGM game is launch CheatEngine and set it to 5x speed. I'm constantly in the editor like, "fuck I should add a second or two pause here for dramatic effect" but I almost always don't do it and just let it ride fast because the loss of dramatic tension in a few scenes is definitely worth the couple minutes I save the player after the cumulative effect of pruning as many little pauses over the course of the game as I can.

Time is money. Your time and energy is important to me. Thanks for chiming in.

 

[lil rain]

nanomachines, son!

 

[TinoBambino]

nanomachines, son!

You guys love nanomachines! I'm so happy!​

 

[Dripping]

The game is clearly tagged as RPGM. Those who don't like it can piss off and look elsewhere for a game they might like. Or, better even, make their own game. They're the kind of idiots who buy tickets for an opera and then complain how they hate opera.

 

[TinoBambino]

The game is clearly tagged as RPGM. Those who don't like it can piss off and look elsewhere for a game they might like. Or, better even, make their own game. They're the kind of idiots who buy tickets for an opera and then complain how they hate opera.

I don't mind fielding questions from the people who hate RPGM. There's a general sense of RPGM fatigue on this board due almost entirely to playing a ton of very poorly written games developed in the engine a year or two ago. The negative effect of this onslaught of bad games was made several times worse by assholes who took advantage of their patrons and in general treated their audience like they were subhuman garbage. I want anyone who finds this game to know that it's created by someone who seriously only cares about entertaining people and spreading joy.

There are many limitations to using this particular software package to tell narrative games, but there have been plenty of RPGM games over the last few years that were major critical successes such as To the Moon and LISA. If you play the game and find a spot where the pacing is off, or something wasn't made clear and you couldn't go back in time like you can in Renpy, please tell me. I can always go back and rewrite something to read more easily in fast forward, or speed up the movement in a scene that people are finding particularly tedious.

I know that if people give Below the Fold a chance they will agree with me that the graphics and cinematography provides an not-insignificant amount of charm that would be missing in a visual novel format. I'm trying to capture the imagination of people with my story the way my imagination was captured by similar titles in the early 2000s.

Any time someone brings this issue up is another chance for me to let people here know that I know what they're saying.

I know guys, I was there too. It all sucked. I get it, I know what happened before, it's not happening this time though.

The difference is that I'm in charge now, and all the same fucking things that drive you up the wall? Well, they drive me right up the wall after you. I did my best to keep those things out of my game. If you play it I think you'll agree with me.

I'm never going to stop moving the goal post from myself; there's always something I can make a little bit closer to perfect. Any engagement I can get with anyone in my potential audience is a good thing that will only make the game better.

Let me show you that hating RPGM is like hating a paperback. Ebooks might not weigh anything, can't be destroyed, don't require doing things irl to purchase, etc... but there's still always going to be something special about holding a book in your hands.

Below the Fold isn't about its engine, it's about the road we are traveling on together.

 

[rahmoon]

S.H.I.T

 

[fidless]

RPGM is a good engine, people underestimate it because you need put some time into it making your game good. You don't have to rely on sprite-based mapping which many complaints about, you can make VN type of game with it too, with clickable characters, etc. The editor is great, easy to use, no actual coding required. I have like 200 plugins on my rpgm game, it's heavily modified and has no problem with performance, no crashes, no slowdowns, though I still yet to test on a low-end laptop. Just by looking at your plugin folder I can tell it's pretty basic. The use of default faces and tiles doesn't really impress. It just looks like any other rpgm game. I suggest using a custom tile pack, they're cheap and will make your game stand out.
For better performance use Yanfly Core Engine and Core Updates and Desktop Optimization. Developing RPGM with the newest updated editor and those two plugins, performance problems shouldn't even be a thing, at least on any laptop/pc with above low end dedicated gpu. Another two plugins I can recommend is "Yanfly Call Event" and "Conditional "Show Choices" made by Aloe. Those two will help tremendously creating events. Galv movement plugins also worth a try if you're interested in making movement pixel based instead of the grid and with diagonal movement. The best about RPGM editor is the community and plugins they make.
Renpy is great (and if someone making just a VN, they should definitely stick with it), but if you want to make an interactive game (walking/combat/interacting with the world) without having actual coding skills, RPGM is an excellent choice. The critique towards the choice of engine is unwarranted.
Just look at "Cherry tree high comedy club" and how awesome and unique it looks.

 

[TinoBambino]

S.H.I.T

That's So Helpful (I Think) feedback, thank you.

The use of default faces and tiles doesn't really impress. It just looks like any other rpgm game. I suggest using a custom tile pack, they're cheap and will make your game stand out.

I'm not going to move past default faces for the vast majority of the characters because I want patrons to be able to download a free trial of RPGM MV and make their own face and character .pngs with the character editor built in to that program if they have no other options for bringing their vision to life. In that case, their default face images won't look chintzy because it matches the existing aesthetic of the game. The point of view characters will be getting their own art, however, with the younger one getting a standing portrait within the next two or three updates. That is a very important goal for me.

I'm currently working on custom tilesets which will be used mainly in the Mother storylines, and the Daughter storyline's family home. However, I want all of the town where the majority of the gameplay (and almost all of the patron content) takes place in to have the same look and feel. I'm very excited to begin work with my Gold level patrons drafting meaningful character arcs for their avatars, creating the locations they'll inhabit, and mapping out the several budding potential relationships (Gold patron and otherwise) Amber has already begun building at the end of Episode 1. The pricing model just can't account for the production of custom tiles, and even if it did, I don't think it's the best choice for maintaining a brisk development pace. I realize I could replace all of the original tilesets with something more unique, but then I feel like I'll lose access to using the tried and true vanilla assets because the juxtaposition will look like later content didn't have the same amount of effort put into it. This is another example of like, I know exactly what you guys mean but I'm doing something untested and unorthodox, and I know everyone is going to agree it kicks ass after a few more months.

As for plugins, I changed the menu because having the default menu in a game without combat is a huge faux pas. I haven't encountered any issues in shooting a scene that I couldn't overcome with event flags and the resulting if-then statements that make scenes work. I don't think I'm going to need anywhere approaching 200 plug ins until I jump the shark next season.

Two of your suggestions, however, are very much appreciated. I've always been a big fan of the movement in games like Golden Sun which take place on a grid, but your player sprite can stand between the grid marks. I hadn't gotten around to researching a solution to implement that yet. The Conditional Show Choices plugin will also help me out tremendously because there's some upcoming content that relies on solving puzzles by interacting with objects in the environment using learned abilities (again, much like Golden Sun.) I immediately had some ideas about how I can use that to make these interactions seem more meaningful when I clicked on that page.

I'm a little busy right this second but in a few hours I'm gonna check out Hentai Punch! and hopefully give you a favorable review. Thank you so much for your feedback.

 

[fidless]

It's not out yet, I'll be releasing this or next week, but this is not about my game. Just tired of seeing rpgm threads spammed with the same comments and wanted to share some useful plugins.

 

[dirtyphoenix]

I am intrigued and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

 

[TinoBambino]

I am intrigued and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Are you saying you played the game and are now invested in the story, or are you saying you agree with my design philosophy as stated in this thread?

Either way thank you, what you said means so much to me.

 

[dirtyphoenix]

I haven't played the game yet, but I am intrigued.

 

[Theguywiththequestions]

past trauma, trust issues, nanomachines, audience participation, naked for pizza guy, only one naked, groping, quid pro quo sex,

congrats, you've one the award for most confusing tags