VN Ren'Py Blurring the Walls [v0.5.2] [Torimiata]

[hangmansjoke]

This is my observation about the update discussion based on what I've read and experienced with different games.

In my experience, communities on F95 are more satisfied and complain less about creators that release smaller but more frequent updates.

If you're a reasonable person and actually read what Tori says, you know that Tori is working on quality over quantity and packs a lot of stuff into every update, so you know that you just have to let Tori cook and just wait until release for a high quality long update.

The problem is, people don't like waiting. So, even if a creator puts out massive updates every 4 months. They will get a lot more negativity from the community than creators who put out small updates every month.

The other thing is about setting peoples expectations. If people expect an update every 2 months and it's delayed, even for a legitimate reason, they won't be happy as their expectation was broken and they will feel slighted.

My advice to creators would be to set expectations that will be met 100% of the time. This could be done by limiting the scope of updates and trying to work ahead of the timeline. Aka, if you set an expectation of release every two months, complete the smaller update in 1 month and work on the next one so you can guarantee consistent release schedules.

This isn't a criticism of Tori from me, it's just what I've observed based on reading most of the comments in this thread and other communities.

"underpromise and overdeliver"

the problem here is that as things get delayed, the fanboys (and sometimes the dev himself) hypes up the upcoming update to justify the delay. "sorry it's not coming in july, but i think you'll all agree what i'm cooking is worth it!" the hype builds and builds.

so now you've got people expecting a complete remaster of the game with new hi-res art, culminating in a sex scene that we've all been waiting for. even if the update would've been considered very good in any other circumstance, there's absolutely no way it can live up to this amount of cope/hype.

i'm not trying to be doom-and-gloom, i'm just trying to reset expectations back down to reality: i think a lot of people are going to be disappointed by this update. switching AI models is itself a gigantic risk... to over-invest in it with months and months of remasters without any user feedback, and going back and changing old scenes people already loved.... it's kind of a recipe for disaster.

i like this game and want it to succeed but we should all buckle up, this thread might be a bloodbath when the update drops

 

[Kuston]

Sooo diary dev?

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

"underpromise and overdeliver"

the problem here is that as things get delayed, the fanboys (and sometimes the dev himself) hypes up the upcoming update to justify the delay. "sorry it's not coming in july, but i think you'll all agree what i'm cooking is worth it!" the hype builds and builds.

so now you've got people expecting a complete remaster of the game with new hi-res art, culminating in a sex scene that we've all been waiting for. even if the update would've been considered very good in any other circumstance, there's absolutely no way it can live up to this amount of cope/hype.

i'm not trying to be doom-and-gloom, i'm just trying to reset expectations back down to reality: i think a lot of people are going to be disappointed by this update. switching AI models is itself a gigantic risk... to over-invest in it with months and months of remasters without any user feedback, and going back and changing old scenes people already loved.... it's kind of a recipe for disaster.

i like this game and want it to succeed but we should all buckle up, this thread might be a bloodbath when the update drops

That's an intelligent, lucid, well thought-out analysis.

You're probably right, however you haven't taken into account the coomer factor, as in how collectively distorted people's takes on the update may be after it contains the first major sex scene.

 

[Torimiata]

Managing expectations is a tricky balance. The goalposts shift easily from "not enough updates" to "overhyping." At some point, you have to trust what you are doing and act on feedback you believe is fair.

Delays happen, and they're frustrating for everyone. But I'd rather release something I feel is decent than rush out something half-baked. The last update taught me that lesson - some scenes were criticized for feeling unfinished, and they were right.

That one took a while too - tons of complains here about delays and abandonment. It should have taken longer.

This update is ambitious, I won't deny that. Switching models and remastering old content is risky, but it's a calculated risk I believe pays off in overall quality and consistency. I'm aware it might not please everyone but any decision I make can have that consequence. I took great care into training the model into exactly what I envisioned.

Remember, this is a small side project. Some expectations simply don't align with that reality, and that's okay. I've been transparent about the large release cadence and scope of updates. If that doesn't work for some folks, I completely understand if they choose not to support it.

I'm not aiming to overhype, just to share my genuine excitement about the update. When it's ready, I'll release it.

As for the potential "bloodbath" - bring it on, what else? I've always listened to feedback and made significant changes when needed, it genuinely improves the game each time. But a key lesson for developers is that you can't please everyone, and I'm very okay with that.

 

[Druus]

Managing expectations is a tricky balance. The goalposts shift easily from "not enough updates" to "overhyping." At some point, you have to trust what you are doing and act on feedback you believe is fair.

Delays happen, and they're frustrating for everyone. But I'd rather release something I feel is decent than rush out something half-baked. The last update taught me that lesson - some scenes were criticized for feeling unfinished, and they were right.

That one took a while too - tons of complains here about delays and abandonment. It should have taken longer.

This update is ambitious, I won't deny that. Switching models and remastering old content is risky, but it's a calculated risk I believe pays off in overall quality and consistency. I'm aware it might not please everyone but any decision I make can have that consequence. I took great care into training the model into exactly what I envisioned.

Remember, this is a small side project. Some expectations simply don't align with that reality, and that's okay. I've been transparent about the large release cadence and scope of updates. If that doesn't work for some folks, I completely understand if they choose not to support it.

I'm not aiming to overhype, just to share my genuine excitement about the update. When it's ready, I'll release it.

As for the potential "bloodbath" - bring it on, what else? I've always listened to feedback and made significant changes when needed, it genuinely improves the game each time. But a key lesson for developers is that you can't please everyone, and I'm very okay with that.

That's all cool and well delays are must if it needed, but would be cool to know presumable time of the next update

 

[LynxLinks]

Out of all the content here I'm hoping that the dev doesn't drop the ball on this one, please don't introduce a dozen new characters!!

 

[wxwbxx]

Managing expectations is a tricky balance. The goalposts shift easily from "not enough updates" to "overhyping." At some point, you have to trust what you are doing and act on feedback you believe is fair.

Delays happen, and they're frustrating for everyone. But I'd rather release something I feel is decent than rush out something half-baked. The last update taught me that lesson - some scenes were criticized for feeling unfinished, and they were right.

That one took a while too - tons of complains here about delays and abandonment. It should have taken longer.

This update is ambitious, I won't deny that. Switching models and remastering old content is risky, but it's a calculated risk I believe pays off in overall quality and consistency. I'm aware it might not please everyone but any decision I make can have that consequence. I took great care into training the model into exactly what I envisioned.

Remember, this is a small side project. Some expectations simply don't align with that reality, and that's okay. I've been transparent about the large release cadence and scope of updates. If that doesn't work for some folks, I completely understand if they choose not to support it.

I'm not aiming to overhype, just to share my genuine excitement about the update. When it's ready, I'll release it.

As for the potential "bloodbath" - bring it on, what else? I've always listened to feedback and made significant changes when needed, it genuinely improves the game each time. But a key lesson for developers is that you can't please everyone, and I'm very okay with that.

Personally speaking, this game has repeatedly delayed its release and update time. What I would prefer to see is that developers are dissatisfied with the updated content and hope to further advance the story. For example, the original plan was to update at the end of July, but the update content was only pushed forward for 2 days/2 nights after the last update. The developers came up with more interesting content and hope to continue adding it. The developers chose to postpone, and by the end of August, the story content had been pushed forward for 1 day/1 night. The developers felt that there was enough content and only needed to improve the script dialogue. For the previously released updates, such as the images that need to be reset that we already know, they should only have secondary importance. During the production of new content, make use of spare time to modify them, rather than taking up a lot of time for developing new content.
It's just my hope. Developers have the right to choose for themselves. I hope the delay is to see more content, and developers may want their works to be more perfect. I certainly respect everyone's right to make their own choices.

 

[wxwbxx]

Speaking of respect, I have some personal opinions.
In previous announcements, Tori almost always mentioned that he hopes we can play the new version as soon as possible, and he is full of confidence in the new version. However, the announcement does not explicitly state that the update will be delayed. Of course, implying a delay is definitely noticeable. What do supporters think when they see the announcement? Are supporters getting more and more excited about the new version, or are they getting angrier about the delay?
What I can't understand is that Tori is saying that he hopes supporters can play the new version as soon as possible, while also releasing an extension notice. At the same time, he intentionally or unintentionally mentions that even if supporters stop supporting, he must continue his will. He himself believes that this is doing the right thing. Does Tori want more support or not?
I am confused. From my personal perspective, if a developer respects their supporters, they will listen to some of their suggestions. When more and more people ask in the channel why updates have not been released yet, developers will realize that the time interval for updates is too long and need to speed up the development progress and release them quickly. Instead of listening to only a few familiar IDs in the channel and always saying 'let the man cook'. This is disrespectful to others, and when an extension is needed, the developer should provide a clear explanation of the situation, without implying anything. They should simply state how long the extension will last and give an approximate time frame. After all, supporters have spent real money supporting your game.
This leads to another confusing point for me. Supporters must have considered when opening the payment page and choosing to support developers, hoping that the money they spend can truly help developers develop game and make game development more perfect and faster. But Tori said, " I mentioned it before but if the anticipation is killing you and you need to pause your subscription in the meantime, I totally understand ”。 This makes it meaningless for supporters to consider and then pay for it...
English is not my first language, and I don't know if I have expressed myself clearly.
It cannot be denied that Tori is extremely talented. Personally, even if he insists on delaying and resetting the images, which may not be as important for an NTR game that focuses more on the storyline and less on visual details in the eyes of most people. Tori also has the capital to do so. His story is different from other stories that can be seen everywhere, at least I am looking forward to where the story will develop in the future. I haven't lost interest yet due to the long update interval. There are also games with better graphics than Tori, and I believe no developer would say that their game graphics are the best in the world. Everyone's aesthetic and acceptance of graphics are different, and beauty cannot be ranked. But whether the story can attract people or not, people themselves understand in their hearts.

 

[burcounting808]

Speaking of respect, I have some personal opinions.
In previous announcements, Tori almost always mentioned that he hopes we can play the new version as soon as possible, and he is full of confidence in the new version. However, the announcement does not explicitly state that the update will be delayed. Of course, implying a delay is definitely noticeable. What do supporters think when they see the announcement? Are supporters getting more and more excited about the new version, or are they getting angrier about the delay?
What I can't understand is that Tori is saying that he hopes supporters can play the new version as soon as possible, while also releasing an extension notice. At the same time, he intentionally or unintentionally mentions that even if supporters stop supporting, he must continue his will. He himself believes that this is doing the right thing. Does Tori want more support or not?
I am confused. From my personal perspective, if a developer respects their supporters, they will listen to some of their suggestions. When more and more people ask in the channel why updates have not been released yet, developers will realize that the time interval for updates is too long and need to speed up the development progress and release them quickly. Instead of listening to only a few familiar IDs in the channel and always saying 'let the man cook'. This is disrespectful to others, and when an extension is needed, the developer should provide a clear explanation of the situation, without implying anything. They should simply state how long the extension will last and give an approximate time frame. After all, supporters have spent real money supporting your game.
This leads to another confusing point for me. Supporters must have considered when opening the payment page and choosing to support developers, hoping that the money they spend can truly help developers develop game and make game development more perfect and faster. But Tori said, " I mentioned it before but if the anticipation is killing you and you need to pause your subscription in the meantime, I totally understand ”。 This makes it meaningless for supporters to consider and then pay for it...
English is not my first language, and I don't know if I have expressed myself clearly.
It cannot be denied that Tori is extremely talented. Personally, even if he insists on delaying and resetting the images, which may not be as important for an NTR game that focuses more on the storyline and less on visual details in the eyes of most people. Tori also has the capital to do so. His story is different from other stories that can be seen everywhere, at least I am looking forward to where the story will develop in the future. I haven't lost interest yet due to the long update interval. There are also games with better graphics than Tori, and I believe no developer would say that their game graphics are the best in the world. Everyone's aesthetic and acceptance of graphics are different, and beauty cannot be ranked. But whether the story can attract people or not, people themselves understand in their hearts.

The only reason that supporters don't get frustrated is because 1) the quality of work has always delivered 2) you can always get a refund of your payment if you subscribe and aren't satisfied with the updates he provides in discord/patreon. 3) We understand the dev is doing this with no help and only part-time after his actual job. Obviously if this was his full-time job expectations would be different.

A good rule of thumb is just wait for the release then subscribe if you don't want to support monthly. A lot of people are getting mad as if they are monthly subscription supporters being promised an update every month when in fact they don't monetarily support the dev at all and are just horny wanting the update to come out ASAP so it can be leaked sooner.

 

[burcounting808]

That's all cool and well delays are must if it needed, but would be cool to know presumable time of the next update

The thing about presumable timetables is that people will go wild if it's not accurate. So it's smart to not mention anything. Also, since this isn't a full-time thing for him the time it will take to go through and proofread/edit can vary.

For example (making these numbers up): let's say there's 10 hours of work that needs to be done. Since this is only a part time thing what if he only has time to do 30 min a day? That means it could take 20 days. Or what if had 5 hours a day to work on it then it only take 2 days. So how can you give an estimate when it can vary so much based on when he has time or what mistakes he needs to fix.

 

[Lolikanion]

But Tori said, " I mentioned it before but if the anticipation is killing you and you need to pause your subscription in the meantime, I totally understand ”。 This makes it meaningless for supporters to consider and then pay for it...

The reason why you might be confused is that Tori doesnt really "live" on subcribers money like some devs since he has normal job.
He also said (I think on discord) that he would develop this game even if it had much less subsrcibers since it's his personal project.
That is why he doesnt really care if someone subscribes or not since he will still continue developing it.

 

[wxwbxx]

The reason why you might be confused is that Tori doesnt really "live" on subcribers money like some devs since he has normal job.
He also said (I think on discord) that he would develop this game even if it had much less subrcibers since it's his personal project.
That is why he doesnt really care if someone subscribes or not since he will still continue developing it.

This is also where I feel sad. The developer I like is a part-time developer

 

[idkmanerally]

This is also where I feel sad. The developer I like is a part-time developer

i actually think being a "part-time porno game developer" is a little less sad than "full-time porno game developer"

coomerdom is an okay hobby but it's an awful lifestyle

 

[wxwbxx]

i actually think being a "part-time porno game developer" is a little less sad than "full-time porno game developer"

coomerdom is an okay hobby but it's an awful lifestyle

Just to express my personal thoughts on the games I like, full-time pornographic game developer is definitely a profession that is not widely accepted by the public. There are too many things in real life that are more important than pornography, and busy life, work, and family are the main themes of most people's lives. I also hope that everyone is doing well, has a decent job, and can support their families through legitimate work.
I'm not saying this to elevate the conversation to a moral level....

 

[hlfwaycrks]

The only reason that supporters don't get frustrated is because 1) the quality of work has always delivered 2) you can always get a refund of your payment if you subscribe and aren't satisfied with the updates he provides in discord/patreon. 3) We understand the dev is doing this with no help and only part-time after his actual job. Obviously if this was his full-time job expectations would be different.

A good rule of thumb is just wait for the release then subscribe if you don't want to support monthly. A lot of people are getting mad as if they are monthly subscription supporters being promised an update every month when in fact they don't monetarily support the dev at all and are just horny wanting the update to come out ASAP so it can be leaked sooner.

This is my plan, to wait for the new update (I'm a patient guy, I can wait), and finally try this game out for the first time. I fully intend on supporting the dev if I fall for the game, which I'm pretty confident I will after what I've read about it. The delays don't phase me at all, especially with how much the dev does interact with the community here. I'm very much looking forward to playing it. While I can understand some consternation with regard to the slow updates, I do think people should be much more understanding. I was just thinking of what it would be like to develop something of this quality in my free time after a long day at the office each day. That would be a pretty serious sacrifice of free time, so it actually makes me respect the dev much more. On top of that, if he gives refunds to anyone that's not satisfied with the process, in addition to releasing truly quality content when he's able to do so without compromising his vision, it feels pretty fantastical to me that the dev is receiving this much grief. It's not like there aren't enough games to play otherwise, either. I'd rather wait and have it done right than get it sooner and end up feeling dissatisfied and wishing for more.

I'm remaining optimistic and looking forward to the update. Keep up the good work, Torimata.

 

[FMarshallboy]

I'm always waiting for a nice Gang Bang where Kento only watches, hahahahahah

You should look at the Update Diary, the author uploaded a preview CG of Ayumi rubbing the MC's and her friend Terrace Penis, obviously I think it will end up in NTR.

Which seems like a terrible decision to me, because at the moment The NTR only happened in the couple's mind without actually getting to the point (Except for some games where Terrace touched her breasts and spanked her).

 

[idkmanerally]

You should look at the Update Diary, the author uploaded a preview CG of Ayumi rubbing the MC's and her friend Terrace Penis, obviously I think it will end up in NTR.

Which seems like a terrible decision to me, because at the moment The NTR only happened in the couple's mind without actually getting to the point (Except for some games where Terrace touched her breasts and spanked her).

nature is healing, we got an NTR crybaby back in the thread to entertain us while we wait for another 2 weeks

 

[FMarshallboy]

nature is healing, we got an NTR crybaby back in the thread to entertain us while we wait for another 2 weeks

Hahaha, I'm just saying what I think, maybe if it ends with NTR it would be the most normal thing in the real world.

 

[hlfwaycrks]

didn't the dev specifically say this game will never go NTR? or, am I thinking of something else?

 

[idkmanerally]

he did, about 1000 times, but it doesn't stop low T paranoid individuals from sobbing in the thread about it

to be fair the dev also posted a "final countdown" post 18 days ago, so... you know... there are trust issues