VN Ren'Py Blurring the Walls [v0.5.2] [Torimiata]

[yonatan]

This is sad.

To be honest I was kinda expecting not for the update itself but a concrete date for update 0.6.

I didn't know Tori is developing the game on offtime work, which kinda makes sense why it is taking so long and sometimes the lack of devs diary or concrete coments. Now that I know about the situation I don't mind waiting the time it's necessary for an update that satisfy Tori, or even replying the whole game even though I was hopping to skip since it is still fresh to me.

The sad situation is that I think this is gonna backfire him to a degree that Tori might lose interest in keeping the development (which I really hope won't happen). What I do not understand is that if you are aware that the remaster or the 0.6 are so far to be ready, why did Tori tease with countdown and cocky replies.

That said I really hope Tori keeps working on the game as it is one of the few games I really had enjoy playing.

Happy anniversary!

 

[pirohiro]

If I told my boss my work wasn't done because I was doing it in my spare time I would lose my job.

If I told him my work wasn't done because I was busy re-doing the work I'd already done, I would lose my job.

Fair play to Torimiata, he knows the required formula to get his patrons to re-subscribe for the notion of a release on the horizon. If he had said half a year ago that the next update would take this long, most would have unsubscribed. That is the kind of hustling that pays.

I am especially fond of him moving the goal posts so that the last release is officially the most recent mini-update with more changes to work already completed. Or announcing a final countdown to his patrons 2 months ago with the countdown officially being "choose a number". Or when shit really gets hot, hit the emergency button of dropping CG of a long awaited scene (BJ). And when even that passes, hit the next emergency button of straight up posting non-canon events just to have something to post. This man can stretch his patrons like a pizza maker with dough. And they will think they are getting an artisan Italian experience when they are actually at Domino's. Fair play. Looking forward to the next magic act.

 

[hlfwaycrks]

If I told my boss my work wasn't done because I was doing it in my spare time I would lose my job.

If I told him my work wasn't done because I was busy re-doing the work I'd already done, I would lose my job.

Fair play to Torimiata, he knows the required formula to get his patrons to re-subscribe for the notion of a release on the horizon. If he had said half a year ago that the next update would take this long, most would have unsubscribed. That is the kind of hustling that pays.

I am especially fond of him moving the goal posts so that the last release is officially the most recent mini-update with more changes to work already completed. Or announcing a final countdown to his patrons 2 months ago with the countdown officially being "choose a number". Or when shit really gets hot, hit the emergency button of dropping CG of a long awaited scene (BJ). And when even that passes, hit the next emergency button of straight up posting non-canon events just to have something to post. This man can stretch his patrons like a pizza maker with dough. And they will think they are getting an artisan Italian experience when they are actually at Domino's. Fair play. Looking forward to the next magic act.

You're attributing a metric shit load of malice to the dev... you're characterizing him as a cartoonish villain, everything save for the twisty mustache. He's not rug pulling. He's not abandoning the project. He's simply not living up to your expectations given the time and resources he has, and you're painting him out to be a sex-game-scamming terrorist lmao this is too much

 

[hangmansjoke]

separating the remaster and 0.6.0 this late into development says to me that the new chapter isn't even close. he admits himself in his message that he's been focusing on the remaster that nobody wants instead of the new chapter. reception to the news has been very poor even on discord.

hate to say i saw this coming but if you've followed this site for long enough, the path from dev slow down to abandonment is very well-established. with all the negativity in the community and obvious lack of inspiration on the dev's part, even if 0.6 comes out, its starting to feel like the last chapter

 

[Pich168]

for me i hope Dev will consider to Release the update fast not the remaster that community not asking for, and another thing i wish more and more dev decide to Create game in this NTS Genre so the Current Existing NTS Game DEV consider to polish and Focus more if he want to challenge in this NTS Market.

 

[Torimiata]

So many heated comments and folks twisting my words - I've explained more over on Discord if you're interested.

Funny thing is, some of you complaining about delays now are the same ones who said the last update was rushed. I remember your usernames from back then. Some of you are still blocked.

I know I could've communicated better, but I can't change the past - only move forward. Taking on both a remaster and a new update is a big task, but it needed to happen. The old tech was holding me back, and as scenes got more complex, it became a real headache. Spending over two weeks on a single CG isn't sustainable.

I've already gone over the technical reasons, so I won't repeat myself here.

I get it if you're not happy with the focus on the remaster - that's your opinion. But saying I'm lazy or not working isn't fair. There's a difference between not doing exactly what some people want and not working at all. If you're a supporter and really unhappy, like I've said before, I'm open to refunds.

 

[pirohiro]

So many heated comments and folks twisting my words - I've explained more over on Discord if you're interested.

Funny thing is, some of you complaining about delays now are the same ones who said the last update was rushed. I remember your usernames from back then. Some of you are still blocked.

I know I could've communicated better, but I can't change the past - only move forward. Taking on both a remaster and a new update is a big task, but it needed to happen. The old tech was holding me back, and as scenes got more complex, it became a real headache. Spending over two weeks on a single CG isn't sustainable.

I've already gone over the technical reasons, so I won't repeat myself here.

I get it if you're not happy with the focus on the remaster - that's your opinion. But saying I'm lazy or not working isn't fair. There's a difference between not doing exactly what some people want and not working at all. If you're a supporter and really unhappy, like I've said before, I'm open to refunds.

Nobody is accusing you of not working. But working poorly is not an appropriate reason. You have serious workflow issues which remastering does not solve. Your issue is not one of quality. It is scale.

You need to scale down. Constantly going over your previous work in search of making it more efficient is not beneficial. Each update has multiple CGs with multiple minute variations. This is further multiplied by having two routes. You are correct that spending two weeks on a single CG isn't sustainable. But the correct answer is not reinventing the wheel to make it more round. It is spinning it fewer times so it does not fall off like it now has.

No efficiency gain from improving your artwork creation is faster than creating less artwork.

As art is what takes up the majority of time, less CGs with less variations is the answer. Progressing the story with less art is more progression than this current pace. This is the approach professional game developers in your situation would take. Whether you wish to is entirely your choice, but my advice is sincere.

 

[a4asshole]

So many heated comments and folks twisting my words - I've explained more over on Discord if you're interested.

Funny thing is, some of you complaining about delays now are the same ones who said the last update was rushed. I remember your usernames from back then. Some of you are still blocked.

I know I could've communicated better, but I can't change the past - only move forward. Taking on both a remaster and a new update is a big task, but it needed to happen. The old tech was holding me back, and as scenes got more complex, it became a real headache. Spending over two weeks on a single CG isn't sustainable.

I've already gone over the technical reasons, so I won't repeat myself here.

I get it if you're not happy with the focus on the remaster - that's your opinion. But saying I'm lazy or not working isn't fair. There's a difference between not doing exactly what some people want and not working at all. If you're a supporter and really unhappy, like I've said before, I'm open to refunds.

Wow, Dev really cares about the community's opinion...
P.s: you carry on sir, we peasant spent lot of time to gossiping, since we do not have to pay taxes.
For those who do..I do not know...

 

[Joshy92]

Yeah but this aint a hobby. Don't get me wrong, I could see it from your perspective 100% and would equally condemn the moans and groans (including myself!) if this were but a saturday afternoon woodworking proxy.....only one problem.....he's getting (ballpark) ~a grand a month to do so. If you're getting paid $1000 a month, expectations of production are extremely reasonable. I don't know why people persist in this masochistic practice, when I pay businesses money and they dont give me anything, I stop going. Just same as I'd expect to be fired if I collected a wage for months and months with no output.

For most devs game development is a hobby most won't ever be able to afford to work on their games full time and that includes Tori.

 

[Jdsiis]

Most people complaining on here aren't even Patreons. Tori is creating a great game that we all love in his spare time and y'all are constantly complaining that he isn't working fast enough while you just play the game for free anyways.

I'm not simping. Tori is releasing the full versions of his game updates FOR FREE. To everyone. You just have to wait longer than the Patreons.

Criticism of the lack of setting and meeting expectations around Tori's updates is fair. But calm down, you guys act like this game is crack and you need your next hit. Don't worry, soon enough Terrace will be in Ayumi's crack and we can all nut together.

 

[Emptyplanet]

Like I said, people complaining are either freeloaders who are begging and choosing; or they're idiots who don't realize that their patron sub has been frozen. You made the (difficult) call to postpone the game while you worked on switching to a better system, people should respect that.

At the end of the day it's your game, and I agree with your choice to switch systems if it makes development in the future easier to fulfil growingly difficult prompts. That's a logical decision, but clearly given some of the more recent replies in this thread; not everybody values logic.

You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into, it sucks but for your own mental health and for the sustained productivity of your project; just ignore these people.

 

[quandin]

The me from before would've gotten impatient but after getting shafted by elvensang I learned that sometimes devs make games as a hobby instead of a full time job

 

[slim-kr]

I'm not a patreon anymore that's for sure, the logical decision would be to release the update BEFORE working on a remaster, the update he has been selling people for months.
And till very last second actually. Suddenly after 4 months, on release timing it's now about remastering the entire game. Is that logical ? It's not AT ALL for a creator to do that, for the fan AND for the game.
Because it will only cause more frustration and a very high expectation now.
I love people saying 'but he made the game free'. Yes because we always ask for the creator's permission before uploading a release here ?
This website is also an ad for new creators. and that's also where I discovered him. Yes people are following him on patreon, but you can see it on the reaction It's not for the pretty eyes of the creator but because they also expect something out of him before they die.
And working intelligently when you are a solo creator is also very important. The correct order should be

1)Countdown post for the months old update
2) release update
3) I'm now working on the remaster of the game
4) people happy

What we got is
1)Countdown post for the update
2) I'm now working on a remaster for the game ? (bro you made a countdown and 25 posts for what)
3) no update but the remaster of the game you've played before (still funny to write tbh)
4) are people happy for you ?

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

separating the remaster and 0.6.0 this late into development says to me that the new chapter isn't even close. he admits himself in his message that he's been focusing on the remaster that nobody wants instead of the new chapter. reception to the news has been very poor even on discord.

hate to say i saw this coming but if you've followed this site for long enough, the path from dev slow down to abandonment is very well-established. with all the negativity in the community and obvious lack of inspiration on the dev's part, even if 0.6 comes out, its starting to feel like the last chapter

Bingo. It's like when I'm late going to some friends event - and they're like "WHERE ARE YOU", and I say "oh I'm uhhh.. I'm 2/3 the way there..." (im not even 1/4)..... If I keep misrepresenting things to 'soften' the state of reality, eventually people catch on. If I were forced to wager on the actual state of the project, he probably has the core events of chapter 6 done (those are fun to do as dev), but no transitions, buildup, and drawn-down (not so fun to write as dev). So maybe 40%. I'd bet he got frustrated at some point and started playing with new image generation techniques.

For most devs game development is a hobby most won't ever be able to afford to work on their games full time and that includes Tori.

Respectfully I define hobby different from you. Hobby is like woodworking in your garage because you enjoy it. But the second a random stranger says "hey nice rocking chairs, can I pay you some money every month to encourage your building?" - and you take that money, it's no longer a casual hobby. IMO with this terminology devs want to have their cake and eat it too.

They're a 'hobbyist' when it comes time for deliverables/status reports, but they're a "dedicated creator" when asking you for money.

 

[douskeDoberman]

I 100% am in agreement with you; perhaps it's because I'm not subscribed on Patreon that I feel this way (although, I am subbed to Netorase Phone and MNGF, even though I've only played a little bit of both. I am more contributing as a way of being a part of the communities with the anticipation of playing both eventually and seeing them grow), and I could definitely understand people getting upset for not getting anything for their subs. I've had the same thought before about modders, seems like a horrible thing to be a part of with everyone being upset about things not being kept up to date, etc. I definitely don't envy devs or modders, as much as I'd like to know how to do that stuff myself! Seriously, just to reiterate, I am not voicing support to condemn the people upset; I more just want Tori to see some semblance of support as I do believe he is trying to make something the right way, even if it's not the way people want it done.

mngf is soo good, any games similar to this mate?

 

[Druus]

I'm not a patreon anymore that's for sure, the logical decision would be to release the update BEFORE working on a remaster, the update he has been selling people for months.
And till very last second actually. Suddenly after 4 months, on release timing it's now about remastering the entire game. Is that logical ? It's not AT ALL for a creator to do that, for the fan AND for the game.
Because it will only cause more frustration and a very high expectation now.
I love people saying 'but he made the game free'. Yes because we always ask for the creator's permission before uploading a release here ?
This website is also an ad for new creators. and that's also where I discovered him. Yes people are following him on patreon, but you can see it on the reaction It's not for the pretty eyes of the creator but because they also expect something out of him before they die.
And working intelligently when you are a solo creator is also very important. The correct order should be

1)Countdown post for the months old update
2) release update
3) I'm now working on the remaster of the game
4) people happy

What we got is
1)Countdown post for the update
2) I'm now working on a remaster for the game ? (bro you made a countdown and 25 posts for what)
3) no update but the remaster of the game you've played before (still funny to write tbh)
4) are people happy for you ?

You don't get it AI art requires months of POLISHING, and oh my god generating new CGIs nobody asked for cause everyone was happy with old ones

 

[a4asshole]

I'm not a patreon anymore that's for sure, the logical decision would be to release the update BEFORE working on a remaster, the update he has been selling people for months.
And till very last second actually. Suddenly after 4 months, on release timing it's now about remastering the entire game. Is that logical ? It's not AT ALL for a creator to do that, for the fan AND for the game.
Because it will only cause more frustration and a very high expectation now.
I love people saying 'but he made the game free'. Yes because we always ask for the creator's permission before uploading a release here ?
This website is also an ad for new creators. and that's also where I discovered him. Yes people are following him on patreon, but you can see it on the reaction It's not for the pretty eyes of the creator but because they also expect something out of him before they die.
And working intelligently when you are a solo creator is also very important. The correct order should be

1)Countdown post for the months old update
2) release update
3) I'm now working on the remaster of the game
4) people happy

What we got is
1)Countdown post for the update
2) I'm now working on a remaster for the game ? (bro you made a countdown and 25 posts for what)
3) no update but the remaster of the game you've played before (still funny to write tbh)
4) are people happy for you ?

I will make you captain of my debate team which I do not have.

 

[Athres]

I'm not a patreon anymore that's for sure, the logical decision would be to release the update BEFORE working on a remaster, the update he has been selling people for months.
And till very last second actually. Suddenly after 4 months, on release timing it's now about remastering the entire game. Is that logical ? It's not AT ALL for a creator to do that, for the fan AND for the game.
Because it will only cause more frustration and a very high expectation now.
I love people saying 'but he made the game free'. Yes because we always ask for the creator's permission before uploading a release here ?
This website is also an ad for new creators. and that's also where I discovered him. Yes people are following him on patreon, but you can see it on the reaction It's not for the pretty eyes of the creator but because they also expect something out of him before they die.
And working intelligently when you are a solo creator is also very important. The correct order should be

1)Countdown post for the months old update
2) release update
3) I'm now working on the remaster of the game
4) people happy

What we got is
1)Countdown post for the update
2) I'm now working on a remaster for the game ? (bro you made a countdown and 25 posts for what)
3) no update but the remaster of the game you've played before (still funny to write tbh)
4) are people happy for you ?

I was silent for long time and was patient through july and august since many build up hype images he posted on Patreon (I am platinum sub), then he suddenly tell that he would do remaster out of blue (wtf? No one ask or wanted it), when post more build up hype images, then blueballing us again with more and more delays.
My pation burn out and I suggest him a several stratagy's:
1. Release 0.6.0 + remaster of 0.2.7 (very first version of the game) events, then go 0.7.0 + remaster of 0.3.2 events and so on
2. Do remaster after main story would be finish.

And you know... he don't care even if we all unsubscribe.

His reasons to do remaster (especially in "technology part") is not sound reasonable or convincingly for me as game developer (not in H-game industry, but still). Technology's evolve almost every single day. Especially in AI sphere. Going by his logic he should remaster the game every time, when new amazing model/intruments would come out, which many developers would use, which is just pure absurd.

I don't care about money that I spend on supporting him. I genuinely loved this project, but all those circles of hype build-up-blueballing actually made me lost all interest to entire project. I just don't feel even slightest thrill from 0.6.0 or remaster with new scenes. So after my current subscription is end (it would be on second week of October), I will never resume it again. Not because of money, but because this developer just cannot be trusted. His actions is not match his words, and I only trust actions.

 

[Torimiata]

That wasn't the timeline of events.

I started working on 0.6.0 and was making decent progress, but then I hit a couple of roadblocks. Some scenes were turning into the typical nightmare to create with the old tools - I was spending over two weeks on a single CG. This happened even during 0.4.x by the way. Just go back in time in my posts for more context.

People like to say AI is easy but a couple of scenes in 0.4.0 were already mostly drawn by hand, people have no idea how much technology has improved since the game started.

Around that time, I stumbled upon some new tech that other creators were using to make really cool stuff much faster. Turns out, it understood what I was trying to do way better.

But to make this new tech work with BtW style, I had to train new models to keep everything consistent. That was a big task, but I figured it was worth it for the long-term benefits. I thought I could do a quick pass to remaster the existing content and then get back to 0.6.0.

At first, it went smoothly, and I thought I was about 80-90% done. But as I kept going, I realized there were more adjustments needed. I also wanted to address some feedback and improve certain scenes while I was at it.

I get that the communication wasn't perfect. Game development, especially solo, can be unpredictable. Sometimes you think you're close to the finish line, and then unexpected challenges pop up.

I know it's not the way everyone would handle it but it's the choice I made. Let's see how it pans out long term but until release I will ignore any other post on this topic, I don't think I can add anything else to the conversation.

 

[pirohiro]

I'm sorry, Torimiata. I know you feel like an island right now. But there is a word for everything you have just said -- procrastination. It is absurd to redo old scenes due to the reasons you have mentioned.

When people say a scene could be clearer or better, not a single person expects or wants you to spend the next 6 months redoing it. That is absurd. They are giving advice for future content. What will you do when the next Stable Diffusion model is released? Remake the art again? Latching onto a vague comment that a scene could be better and fixing that instead of answering the overwhelming #1 complaint which is abandonment speed progression is not a sensible use of time.