VN Ren'Py Blurring the Walls [v0.5.2] [Torimiata]

[Jdsiis]

Most people complaining on here aren't even Patreons. Tori is creating a great game that we all love in his spare time and y'all are constantly complaining that he isn't working fast enough while you just play the game for free anyways.

I'm not simping. Tori is releasing the full versions of his game updates FOR FREE. To everyone. You just have to wait longer than the Patreons.

Criticism of the lack of setting and meeting expectations around Tori's updates is fair. But calm down, you guys act like this game is crack and you need your next hit. Don't worry, soon enough Terrace will be in Ayumi's crack and we can all nut together.

 

[Emptyplanet]

Like I said, people complaining are either freeloaders who are begging and choosing; or they're idiots who don't realize that their patron sub has been frozen. You made the (difficult) call to postpone the game while you worked on switching to a better system, people should respect that.

At the end of the day it's your game, and I agree with your choice to switch systems if it makes development in the future easier to fulfil growingly difficult prompts. That's a logical decision, but clearly given some of the more recent replies in this thread; not everybody values logic.

You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into, it sucks but for your own mental health and for the sustained productivity of your project; just ignore these people.

 

[quandin]

The me from before would've gotten impatient but after getting shafted by elvensang I learned that sometimes devs make games as a hobby instead of a full time job

 

[slim-kr]

I'm not a patreon anymore that's for sure, the logical decision would be to release the update BEFORE working on a remaster, the update he has been selling people for months.
And till very last second actually. Suddenly after 4 months, on release timing it's now about remastering the entire game. Is that logical ? It's not AT ALL for a creator to do that, for the fan AND for the game.
Because it will only cause more frustration and a very high expectation now.
I love people saying 'but he made the game free'. Yes because we always ask for the creator's permission before uploading a release here ?
This website is also an ad for new creators. and that's also where I discovered him. Yes people are following him on patreon, but you can see it on the reaction It's not for the pretty eyes of the creator but because they also expect something out of him before they die.
And working intelligently when you are a solo creator is also very important. The correct order should be

1)Countdown post for the months old update
2) release update
3) I'm now working on the remaster of the game
4) people happy

What we got is
1)Countdown post for the update
2) I'm now working on a remaster for the game ? (bro you made a countdown and 25 posts for what)
3) no update but the remaster of the game you've played before (still funny to write tbh)
4) are people happy for you ?

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

separating the remaster and 0.6.0 this late into development says to me that the new chapter isn't even close. he admits himself in his message that he's been focusing on the remaster that nobody wants instead of the new chapter. reception to the news has been very poor even on discord.

hate to say i saw this coming but if you've followed this site for long enough, the path from dev slow down to abandonment is very well-established. with all the negativity in the community and obvious lack of inspiration on the dev's part, even if 0.6 comes out, its starting to feel like the last chapter

Bingo. It's like when I'm late going to some friends event - and they're like "WHERE ARE YOU", and I say "oh I'm uhhh.. I'm 2/3 the way there..." (im not even 1/4)..... If I keep misrepresenting things to 'soften' the state of reality, eventually people catch on. If I were forced to wager on the actual state of the project, he probably has the core events of chapter 6 done (those are fun to do as dev), but no transitions, buildup, and drawn-down (not so fun to write as dev). So maybe 40%. I'd bet he got frustrated at some point and started playing with new image generation techniques.

For most devs game development is a hobby most won't ever be able to afford to work on their games full time and that includes Tori.

Respectfully I define hobby different from you. Hobby is like woodworking in your garage because you enjoy it. But the second a random stranger says "hey nice rocking chairs, can I pay you some money every month to encourage your building?" - and you take that money, it's no longer a casual hobby. IMO with this terminology devs want to have their cake and eat it too.

They're a 'hobbyist' when it comes time for deliverables/status reports, but they're a "dedicated creator" when asking you for money.

 

[douskeDoberman]

I 100% am in agreement with you; perhaps it's because I'm not subscribed on Patreon that I feel this way (although, I am subbed to Netorase Phone and MNGF, even though I've only played a little bit of both. I am more contributing as a way of being a part of the communities with the anticipation of playing both eventually and seeing them grow), and I could definitely understand people getting upset for not getting anything for their subs. I've had the same thought before about modders, seems like a horrible thing to be a part of with everyone being upset about things not being kept up to date, etc. I definitely don't envy devs or modders, as much as I'd like to know how to do that stuff myself! Seriously, just to reiterate, I am not voicing support to condemn the people upset; I more just want Tori to see some semblance of support as I do believe he is trying to make something the right way, even if it's not the way people want it done.

mngf is soo good, any games similar to this mate?

 

[Druus]

I'm not a patreon anymore that's for sure, the logical decision would be to release the update BEFORE working on a remaster, the update he has been selling people for months.
And till very last second actually. Suddenly after 4 months, on release timing it's now about remastering the entire game. Is that logical ? It's not AT ALL for a creator to do that, for the fan AND for the game.
Because it will only cause more frustration and a very high expectation now.
I love people saying 'but he made the game free'. Yes because we always ask for the creator's permission before uploading a release here ?
This website is also an ad for new creators. and that's also where I discovered him. Yes people are following him on patreon, but you can see it on the reaction It's not for the pretty eyes of the creator but because they also expect something out of him before they die.
And working intelligently when you are a solo creator is also very important. The correct order should be

1)Countdown post for the months old update
2) release update
3) I'm now working on the remaster of the game
4) people happy

What we got is
1)Countdown post for the update
2) I'm now working on a remaster for the game ? (bro you made a countdown and 25 posts for what)
3) no update but the remaster of the game you've played before (still funny to write tbh)
4) are people happy for you ?

You don't get it AI art requires months of POLISHING, and oh my god generating new CGIs nobody asked for cause everyone was happy with old ones

 

[a4asshole]

I'm not a patreon anymore that's for sure, the logical decision would be to release the update BEFORE working on a remaster, the update he has been selling people for months.
And till very last second actually. Suddenly after 4 months, on release timing it's now about remastering the entire game. Is that logical ? It's not AT ALL for a creator to do that, for the fan AND for the game.
Because it will only cause more frustration and a very high expectation now.
I love people saying 'but he made the game free'. Yes because we always ask for the creator's permission before uploading a release here ?
This website is also an ad for new creators. and that's also where I discovered him. Yes people are following him on patreon, but you can see it on the reaction It's not for the pretty eyes of the creator but because they also expect something out of him before they die.
And working intelligently when you are a solo creator is also very important. The correct order should be

1)Countdown post for the months old update
2) release update
3) I'm now working on the remaster of the game
4) people happy

What we got is
1)Countdown post for the update
2) I'm now working on a remaster for the game ? (bro you made a countdown and 25 posts for what)
3) no update but the remaster of the game you've played before (still funny to write tbh)
4) are people happy for you ?

I will make you captain of my debate team which I do not have.

 

[Athres]

I'm not a patreon anymore that's for sure, the logical decision would be to release the update BEFORE working on a remaster, the update he has been selling people for months.
And till very last second actually. Suddenly after 4 months, on release timing it's now about remastering the entire game. Is that logical ? It's not AT ALL for a creator to do that, for the fan AND for the game.
Because it will only cause more frustration and a very high expectation now.
I love people saying 'but he made the game free'. Yes because we always ask for the creator's permission before uploading a release here ?
This website is also an ad for new creators. and that's also where I discovered him. Yes people are following him on patreon, but you can see it on the reaction It's not for the pretty eyes of the creator but because they also expect something out of him before they die.
And working intelligently when you are a solo creator is also very important. The correct order should be

1)Countdown post for the months old update
2) release update
3) I'm now working on the remaster of the game
4) people happy

What we got is
1)Countdown post for the update
2) I'm now working on a remaster for the game ? (bro you made a countdown and 25 posts for what)
3) no update but the remaster of the game you've played before (still funny to write tbh)
4) are people happy for you ?

I was silent for long time and was patient through july and august since many build up hype images he posted on Patreon (I am platinum sub), then he suddenly tell that he would do remaster out of blue (wtf? No one ask or wanted it), when post more build up hype images, then blueballing us again with more and more delays.
My pation burn out and I suggest him a several stratagy's:
1. Release 0.6.0 + remaster of 0.2.7 (very first version of the game) events, then go 0.7.0 + remaster of 0.3.2 events and so on
2. Do remaster after main story would be finish.

And you know... he don't care even if we all unsubscribe.

His reasons to do remaster (especially in "technology part") is not sound reasonable or convincingly for me as game developer (not in H-game industry, but still). Technology's evolve almost every single day. Especially in AI sphere. Going by his logic he should remaster the game every time, when new amazing model/intruments would come out, which many developers would use, which is just pure absurd.

I don't care about money that I spend on supporting him. I genuinely loved this project, but all those circles of hype build-up-blueballing actually made me lost all interest to entire project. I just don't feel even slightest thrill from 0.6.0 or remaster with new scenes. So after my current subscription is end (it would be on second week of October), I will never resume it again. Not because of money, but because this developer just cannot be trusted. His actions is not match his words, and I only trust actions.

 

[Torimiata]

That wasn't the timeline of events.

I started working on 0.6.0 and was making decent progress, but then I hit a couple of roadblocks. Some scenes were turning into the typical nightmare to create with the old tools - I was spending over two weeks on a single CG. This happened even during 0.4.x by the way. Just go back in time in my posts for more context.

People like to say AI is easy but a couple of scenes in 0.4.0 were already mostly drawn by hand, people have no idea how much technology has improved since the game started.

Around that time, I stumbled upon some new tech that other creators were using to make really cool stuff much faster. Turns out, it understood what I was trying to do way better.

But to make this new tech work with BtW style, I had to train new models to keep everything consistent. That was a big task, but I figured it was worth it for the long-term benefits. I thought I could do a quick pass to remaster the existing content and then get back to 0.6.0.

At first, it went smoothly, and I thought I was about 80-90% done. But as I kept going, I realized there were more adjustments needed. I also wanted to address some feedback and improve certain scenes while I was at it.

I get that the communication wasn't perfect. Game development, especially solo, can be unpredictable. Sometimes you think you're close to the finish line, and then unexpected challenges pop up.

I know it's not the way everyone would handle it but it's the choice I made. Let's see how it pans out long term but until release I will ignore any other post on this topic, I don't think I can add anything else to the conversation.

 

[pirohiro]

I'm sorry, Torimiata. I know you feel like an island right now. But there is a word for everything you have just said -- procrastination. It is absurd to redo old scenes due to the reasons you have mentioned.

When people say a scene could be clearer or better, not a single person expects or wants you to spend the next 6 months redoing it. That is absurd. They are giving advice for future content. What will you do when the next Stable Diffusion model is released? Remake the art again? Latching onto a vague comment that a scene could be better and fixing that instead of answering the overwhelming #1 complaint which is abandonment speed progression is not a sensible use of time.

 

[Pich168]

I was silent for long time and was patient through jule and august since many build up hype images he posted on Patreon (I am platinum sub), then he suddenly tell that he would do remaster out of blue (wtf? No ask or wanted it), when post more build up hype images, then bluballing us again with more and more delays.
My pation burn out and I suggest him a several stratagy's:
1. Release 0.6.0 + remaster of 0.2.7 (very first version of the game) events, then go 0.7.0 + remaster of 0.3.2 events and so on
2. Do remaster after main story would be finish.

And you know... he don't care even if we all unsubscribe.

His reasons to do remaster (especially in "technology part") is not sound reasonable or convincingly for me as game developer (not in H-game industry, but still). Technology's goes up almost every single day. Especially in AI stuff. Going by his logic he should remaster the game every time, when new amazing model/intruments would come out, which many developers would use, which is just pury bu***hit.

I don't care about money that I spend on supporting him. I genuinely loved this project, but all those circles of hype build-up-blueballing actually made me lost all interest to entire project. I just don't feel even slightest thrill from 0.6.0 or remaster with new scenes. So after my current subscription is end (it would be on second week of October), I will never resume it again. Not because of money, but because this developer just cannot be trusted. His actions is not match his words, and I only trust actions.

i wish Dev Consider This Suggestion, i believe it is not yet too late to reconsider Supporter Suggestions.

 

[mase88]

I can't wait for the new update either but some people need to chill with all the name calling and other BS.

 

[Athres]

i wish Dev Consider This Suggestion, i believe it is not yet too late to reconsider Supporter Suggestions.

I just saw this way of things on many other projects which I support with money and I was fine with it. I mean I was not agains remaster of old things, but not entirely in one go, because it is not what fans asking. Of course there are some people, who blindly accept everything, which dev say to them. Of course it is his project and he could do everything he want with it. But in this case I, as one who support project with money, also have right to say my opinion, that I disagree with his way of things. But since dev never listen to that part of fans, who disagree with it when he is not worth my trust anymore.

 

[burcounting808]

I feel like all these people who lost "trust" or people who feel like they "wasted" money are just people that are horny for Tori's CG teasers. Like when you sub you should be subbing to support the Dev or you want to unlock what is currently available(images/updates). Not because you expect your subscription period to cover future stuff.

Like if you are subbing to see a CG or a text post you can't get mad you aren't getting a release as well before the month is up. Just wait to sub when you see the release post and then you're all good.

 

[Doctor Manlio]

I’m stunned by the sheer amount of drama about a free porn game...

 

[thatthingunderyourbed]

I guess the real netorare was... the friends we've made along the way?

 

[nickazrael27]

i feel like the dev is doing the actual cucking with the delay

 

[hlfwaycrks]

mngf is soo good, any games similar to this mate?

It's hard to quantify what you're asking. If you're asking for games with good AI art, I like Echoes: Cards of Destiny, but it's a totally different type of game and there's no netorase. idk why I don't see any suggestions for it anywhere. Netorase Phone has fantastic AI art and (obviously) netorase. The fan art threads for Netorase Phone and MNGF are both must-visit threads. uhh........ Another one that looks like it has good AI art, but I've not played, is Above the Law, although my understanding is it's pretty early in development. As for good netorase, Long Story Short... I've heard good things about Vulgar Reverie but haven't played it... My Girlfriend Fulfills My Netorase Dreams is really good from what I've played (it's in RPGM but don't let that push you away). I know there are others, I just can't think of them right now, I've had a long-ass day lol -- Hopefully, these are some good suggestions for starters!

 

[Athres]

I feel like all these people who lost "trust" or people who feel like they "wasted" money are just people that are horny for Tori's CG teasers. Like when you sub you should be subbing to support the Dev or you want to unlock what is currently available(images/updates). Not because you expect your subscription period to cover future stuff.

Like if you are subbing to see a CG or an update you can't get mad you aren't getting a release as well before the month is up. Just wait to sub when you see the release post and then you're all good.

Man, I have several subscriptions on other projects that I continue for years without any stopping. Many of those projects have solo dev that also have job IRL, but they release content on regular basis one or two times in month. So for me subscription is not about money, because waste around 100$ each month in patreon is not a problem for me. It is about trust and sure that I will get something back in clear "deadlines".

But all this overshadowed by the fact that several circles of build-up-delay now make me lost interest to this project, despite it was one of my favourite ones. Its not about money, but thrill and feelings in first place. I look onto those teaser-images and now feel absolutely nothing... What I am trying to say that dev made me almost hate this project.