Ren'Py Brothel King [v0.3] [Goldo]

[phlore101]

I'm playing on insane level and it indeed is insane. I can't make enough money to stay afloat any more. I was doing ok until the tax lady came. She took over 4k when I was sitting at about 7-8k. Now my girls are tired all the time and can't work much. I'm losing like 500 a day. I even managed to get a girl with 75 across all the stats that that old guy wanted. I'm going to have to cheat to get to the next stage.

 

[phupdup]

Another tell for the gate logic that kept me held back for so long at the 8 room brothel is the speed with which I can already advance if I wish. The first goal was $7500 which I had already qualified for before even having a night's work. Then I blew right through the next stage quest of having at least 6 girls at Stage B. So I could already have swapped up to the 16 bed stage without even having 2 days of work into the 12 bed one.

 

[phlore101]

I managed to get to the next stage without cheating. Had to do some high paying quests and had to sell someone. That last month was brutal. Don't know what the penalties were but i was a massive drain on my profit.

 

[Leortha]

I managed to get to the next stage without cheating. Had to do some high paying quests and had to sell someone. That last month was brutal. Don't know what the penalties were but i was a massive drain on my profit.

That's in part what the tax system is there for. It was noted that, as the game goes on, the player starts earning more money than they have the ability to easily spend. The tax system was designed to help put a cap on the runaway profits. Having more and more money on hand is actually problematic, as your threat level rises with that. So runaway profits can trigger bad events.

 

[phlore101]

That's in part what the tax system is there for. It was noted that, as the game goes on, the player starts earning more money than they have the ability to easily spend. The tax system was designed to help put a cap on the runaway profits. Having more and more money on hand is actually problematic, as your threat level rises with that. So runaway profits can trigger bad events.

I also had one of those bad months. I don't what the exact penalties were but they were taking away like 300 or 400 a night.

 

[Jman9]

Another tell for the gate logic that kept me held back for so long at the 8 room brothel is the speed with which I can already advance if I wish.

That is not really a tell, since chapter 3+ goals are placeholders, and one can imagine that Goldo will come up with an even more hardcore block if/when we get to version 0.3.

The real tell would be whether your 'sailor whores' were able to start making good money in chapter 3 chapter 4, with increased costs and more demanding clients. If they did, then at the very least chapter 2 goals are not in line with your difficulty level, and need to be adjusted. I've posted my thoughts about Papa Freak on HHS, we'll see what Goldo thinks.

I'd also be interested to hear what people playing on higher difficulties think about how well Papa Freak's standards measure their progress vs the business environment in chapter 3.

 

[phupdup]

Just to avoid confusion, you are saying chap 3 is the 12 bedroom brothel and chap 4 is the opening of the two new districts and Class A ranks. I haven't expanded to the 12th bedroom yet and have already gotten to over $35k and are setting up for the last 2 to be Geishas in training. I didn't start staffing the Onsen until the 12 room setup. One thing I haven't done is sell slaves or send any to the farm. I go the positive route in training and have all of them at the "like me a lot" and "ease up around you" levels with only 1 or 2 still closer to the "nervous around me" level. All 11 are Rank B with all but 3 at level 10, 2 at level 9 and one having just gotten to Rank B and still at level 5. I'm just looking for a Geisha build to appear on the Slave market for the 12th to get her started before I advance to chap 4.

That is not really a tell, since chapter 3+ goals are placeholders, and one can imagine that Goldo will come up with an even more hardcore block if/when we get to version 0.3.

The real tell would be whether your 'sailor whores' were able to start making good money in chapter 3 chapter 4, with increased costs and more demanding clients. If they did, then at the very least chapter 2 goals are not in line with your difficulty level, and need to be adjusted. I've posted my thoughts about Papa Freak on HHS, we'll see what Goldo thinks.

I'd also be interested to hear what people playing on higher difficulties think about how well Papa Freak's standards measure their progress vs the business environment in chapter 3.

 

[Jman9]

Just to avoid confusion, you are saying chap 3 is the 12 bedroom brothel and chap 4 is the opening of the two new districts and Class A ranks.

Yes. I don't doubt that Papa Freak's requirements mean that you're well-prepared for chapter 3. I'm not so sure they allow you to skip two chapters at once, even if the chapter goals let you.

Note that I'm used to very tight gating compared to vanilla, so my doubts may not apply to normal difficulty.

One thing I haven't done is sell slaves or send any to the farm.

Nobody sells slaves in vanilla because of how large the ROI on putting them to work is, never mind all the training that makes you attached to them (at least as objects of artifice if not emotionally).

Edit:
One solution would be what I did in my mod: girl specialisation to a degree completely unseen in the vanilla game, and the ability to custom order girls 'built' to your specifications. For excessively large sums of money, of course.

Vanilla headhunter is still not coming anytime soon. I took a look at porting mine over but it seemed like too much work, and I'm not sure how she'd actually work to encourage getting new slaves. Well, buying original girls with non-random traits would still be a big draw, but it'd be a 'pokemon' draw, not something that makes your brothel a lot better.
/Edit

Most players don't bother with the farm, either, because it doesn't really provide a lot and makes many feel uncomfortable. I suppose you can still try to 'farm' girls by buying/wooing them straight into the farm and keeping them there until their price raises over what you paid for them. I don't know if it's any kind of profitable, though. But at least it's a way to hide your wealth to lower security threat.

 

[phupdup]

I do notice that Papa Freak and the "visit" seems to be a repeatable and not a one-shot. Perhaps there might have been an intent to use him for more than one gating event, or maybe that's just some bodysurf coding showing the sand in the shorts. I would propose using my hack to be the gate for chapter 3 and then have another "visit" where the levels go up to see if you have masseuse and geisha material and have expanded services as the gate for chapter 4. I still think the 4 attributes at 75 or whatever is a bridge too far. We are at a stage where girls are specializing, and the players are searching for specific perks and traits for a job where they can train to enhance job performance while bypassing whatever flaw is present. There isn't really a job that requires all four to be balanced. Even the whoring can be specialized.

I think the game mechanics and the gui are at fault for blindsiding newcomers or long lapsed players like me with pop up goals that totally blow whatever strategies we may come up with out of the water. In my case, I kind of remember that constitution was important for cash flow and that specific jobs needed specific attritubes (eg charm for waitress). So I spent points on levelups on maxing constitution and ignored non-job related attributes. That bit me in the ass for Papa Freak, and the choice was to hack the code to support alternative strategies or to rage quit a multi-hour playthrough. The gui flaws hinder a newbie from figuring out what chat and training events change which attributes and which itty bitty icons need to be monitored. I've stayed away from the quest board because there's no way to pull up a list of the girls that might match the requirements and their rest state to see if I can handle a quest. All of the classes I've seen so far are for things I can do myself with training and not stuff I can't seem to find a way to train up like Body or Beauty.

Yes. I don't doubt that Papa Freak's requirements mean that you're well-prepared for chapter 3. I'm not so sure they allow you to skip two chapters at once, even if the chapter goals let you.

 

[Jman9]

I do notice that Papa Freak and the "visit" seems to be a repeatable and not a one-shot.

I think Goldo just forgot to disable him. You can do repeat visits, but that's probably just in case your girl is not good enough.

The events themselves are certainly one-shot, but reusing NPCs for something else is always possible.

There isn't really a job that requires all four to be balanced. Even the whoring can be specialized.

Whoring does sort of require all four stats, since these are what customers are looking for in a hooker, and their tastes can be completely random. The impact is probably not big enough to notice, though.

But specialising whores into one of the four acts (and getting the Focus perk) is definitely the way to go. We've had discussions about that on HHS, and there's a laundry list of advantages, with the biggest disadvantage being offering the 'wrong' act. And that can be mitigated with a perk, or by having more specialised whores.

I think the game mechanics and the gui are at fault for blindsiding newcomers or long lapsed players like me with pop up goals that totally blow whatever strategies we may come up with out of the water. In my case, I kind of remember that constitution was important for cash flow and that specific jobs needed specific attritubes (eg charm for waitress).

Both are still true and I do the same. In a mod that punishes non-specialisation (ie wrong stats) very harshly.

And I don't see what UI has to do with it. Progress gating being different from the normal flow of the game is a matter of high-level game design, not UI or the nitty-gritty of game mechanics.

...the choice was to hack the code to support alternative strategies or to rage quit a multi-hour playthrough.

You could've also doped your best girl with food, items and a month or two of doing her weakest job(s), as I suggested. I like gameplay challenges. YMMV.

I've stayed away from the quest board because there's no way to pull up a list of the girls that might match the requirements and their rest state to see if I can handle a quest.

Every quest filters girls and shows only eligible ones, plus their stats. Which includes displaying energy and removing exhausted/hurt girls. Your proposal would be a bit more convenient, but not so much that the current setup is unworkable in comparison.

All of the classes I've seen so far are for things I can do myself with training and not stuff I can't seem to find a way to train up like Body or Beauty.

Beauty, Body, Charm and Refinement classes are a thing, but what actually shows up is very random. At least most classes have several slots. And even 'normal' classes can raise stats to 10% above what you can train yourself.

You can sort of train primary stats via certain chat options and the 'bedroom visit' event. But these are nowhere near as good as regular training interactions, and which stat gets raised can depend on the girl's personality.



Edit:
Okay, I'm calling bullshit on the 'insanely high attribute checks'. It's just phupdup not knowing how to play, or at least to (ab)use certain mechanics. I tried to do some intensive training, cheated myself into chapter 2 and spent just one month and ~30k on training a girl. I fucked up several times, and spent way too much money on unimportant items, so I think this is doable in under a month and with ~10-20k. Less if you start with a leveled rank B girl, so nothing too excessive for a player claiming to be ready for chapter 3.

I bought a relatively lackluster rank C girl, so my starting point was not too far off from chapter 1:


I plied her as a waitress, and later dancer and masseuse for maybe a week both. I also used pretty much all of my AP on her, but a lot of that had very poor ROI. Most of her levelup points went into constitution, some to charisma at the start, and maybe 2 levelups to refinement at the very end when the writing was on the wall about refinement being her weakest stat.

The really secret sauce was twofold: excessively cheap and plentiful JP scrolls, and the ability to stack food bonuses without limit. I had already completely forgotten how bullshit vanilla scaling was with these, so no claiming I had a knowledge advantage. I rediscovered this entirely by accident, seeing the beauty boost still being coloured green after she already ate one apple.

The end result:




Her equipment (got a little lucky with the pompoms):


Papa was ecstatic. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

As long as food can be stacked like that, I retract all comments about Papa Freak's requirements not matching what a player can be reasonably expected to have.

 

[Moz69]

I gave him that one with a peach for the charm. Also worked nicely

 

[phupdup]

And thus here's the problem.... You knew what you were doing, and the food bonuses are like a racehorse on steroids that will collapse after crossing the finish line. Aren't we looking for lasting Rank A material?

Now assume you were a new user and didn't know about the 75 level gate until you were smacked upon it after hours of play. That person may be leaving the BK fold and crossing the street over to BrothDonalds.

The really secret sauce was twofold: excessively cheap and plentiful JP scrolls, and the ability to stack food bonuses without limit. I had already completely forgotten how bullshit vanilla scaling was with these, so no claiming I had a knowledge advantage. I rediscovered this entirely by accident, seeing the beauty boost still being coloured green after she already ate one apple.

 

[Moz69]

i didnt stack it i only gave her one. and if i let her 3-4 days more work as waitress she could get it also without.

but yeah it also took me some time to train her especially the body she did not have (her main attribute was the refinement when i bought her; i cheated nothing and play on hard) but it also helped there send her in school to train.

Funny thing on the side the second time the guild showed up they didnt even want money cause seems i didnt earn enough. So yeah this is really a bit more challenging. On the last version i had 1 mio+ money with my S class girls and so i think its really a good way to get money out and not being in constant danger of being atacked or raided.

 

[Jman9]

And thus here's the problem.... You knew what you were doing...

The only thing I knew beforehand that a new player might not was that job levels boost stats. And that is not difficult to discover by getting your first job up. I was actually prepared to grind all four jobs for several months, but then noticed all the JP scrolls laying around, and the double apple thing. The rest was obvious.

I also made the mistake of not hoarding food for a long while, so I could've been done with the check a lot faster. I actually didn't know what I was doing for a considerable while.

I might have known at some point long ago, but then I killed both of these exploits in my own mod, and I'm now conditioned to operate without such cheese.

Aren't we looking for lasting Rank A material?

Depends on what you're aiming for. Me, I'd be on the lookout for gold-traited originals as keepers. A speedrunner might not bother (yes, we have at least one serious speedrunner among us).

But your issue was that 'naturally' developed girls couldn't pass Papa's check and proceed to chapter 3. As demonstrated, they can be doped to do exactly that, and the check is a one-time occurrence. So whether they collapse after that or not is immaterial.

Stats from JP scrolls are also permanent, even if not as ridiculous as food buffs.

Now assume you were a new user and didn't know about the 75 level gate until you were smacked upon it after hours of play.

Note that I did my test game in five weeks using a rank C starter girl. That's probably worse than a new player in chapter 2 with rank B gals who's looking to progress into chapter 3 and runs face-first into Papa Freak.

That person may be leaving the BK fold and crossing the street over to BrothDonalds.

Do tell me what this 'BrothDonalds' is. The closest ones I know are Whore Master and Wicked Rouge. Neither is nowhere as developed or deep as BK, and likely will never be.


That being said, Moz69's girls are definitely overleveled for chapter 2, and 8 months is too much. Our speedrunner friend is usually declaring himself as having 'won' after six or so. If Papa Freak checked 'raw' stats instead of total stats, you would be absolutely right.

 

[Moz69]

if i try a speed run it wont take me that long too ... i was just having fun and also wasnt used to the low earnings and the new events in chapter 2.

 

[Jman9]

I was not criticising your play. On harder difficulties and without trying to go fast that's entirely okay. It's just not a benchmark we should be measuring normal difficulty and Papa Freak against.

 

[phupdup]

You don't see BK and think "home of the Whopper" and that old jingle about "hold the pickles, hold the lettuce"?

Do tell me what this 'BrothDonalds' is. The closest ones I know are Whore Master and Wicked Rouge. Neither is nowhere as developed or deep as BK, and likely will never be.

 

[Jman9]

Not American, don't eat fast food, so not even a clue about either.

I'm not even sure where the closest Burger King is... Well, I looked. Other side of the town. I guess I can't completely escape these things after all.

 

[phupdup]

And thus we have the McDonald's theory of global peace. No two countries with golden arches franchises have ever gone to war with each other. I'm sure KFC (aka the home of the esteemed general in China) and BK can also claim that rubic

Kentucky Filly Courtesans anyone? I wonder if Papa Freak is really a cajun and whether he likes spicy or not...

Not American, don't eat fast food, so not even a clue about either.

I'm not even sure where the closest Burger King is... Well, I looked. Other side of the town. I guess I can't escape these things after all.

 

[Jman9]

Offtopic:

Spoiler: McDonald's and stuff

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