Business Name Changes in AVNs.

[Deleted member 5707363]

Hey everybody. I'm just curious as to why devs change the names of certain companies, celebs, etc. They'll call "Starbucks" "Starfucks" or whatever. It doesn't always come off like an attempt to be amusing. Is there a reason I can't say, "She's an Instagram model/influencer"? That kind of thing...

Do they run into some kind of issues with the company they're naming? Would they be threatened with a lawsuit if they named an actual company without changing it to something else?

 

[TessaXYZ]

Short answer: Yes. You typically want to avoid directly naming an entity when their presence is being correlated to content that is socially questionable, because that entity can rightly claim you are suggesting they have endorsed the product and therefore are damaging their public perception.

 

[VMiller]

Short answer: Yes. You typically want to avoid directly naming an entity when their presence is being correlated to content that is socially questionable, because that entity can rightly claim you are suggesting they have endorsed the product and therefore are damaging their public perception.

I've read many works on Literotica, they don't change the names of famous companies there.

 

[Brosewood]

I've read many works on Literotica, they don't change the names of famous companies there.

Literotica is pretty small-fry in the big scheme of things. I imagine companies like Starbucks and Samsung have better things to do than chase after amateur writers writing smut for free, especially considering those people could be anywhere from Cairo, Eygpt to Cairo, Illinois.

Of course, it's better safe than sorry. I'm not a lawyer and nor do I play one on the internet, but I'd avoid mentioning real companies/brands etc as much as possible if you're making an adult game. You gain very little from doing so and risk a whole lot if someone decides to swing the hammer.

 

[m00nsh1ne]

people who make these games are walking a fine line as it is... why bring more potential heat down on themselves? It's a risk just not worth taking. Imagine if you were working on a game for years and all of a sudden Facebook, Instagram, McDonalds, or WHOEVER u used sends you a cease and desist or a subpoena it just isn't worth it.

 

[Hagatagar]

View it from another angle: Why should people do free advertising for all those companies?

 

[desmosome]

View it from another angle: Why should people do free advertising for all those companies?

To give more authenticity to the contemporary world you are depicting? To maintain a bit more seriousness to the story?

"What, you don't know about Coocci belts? Why don't you Foogle it?"
"No, I don't have time. I will go to Starcucks later and search for it."
"Well, I linked it on Basedbook. You should check it out."

Ok, that conversation would be retarded even with the actual company names, but you get the picture. It turns the script into a parody of real life, which is usually fine, but some writers might want a closer representation of our society.

Now as for why it would be a bad idea to use trademarked names in your porn game, it's simple. Companies don't want their image tarnished. Trademark laws cover various areas like trademark infringement, trademark dilution, and trademark tarnishment and defamation. That last one is the relevant bit for writers. Look at the Debbie Does Dallas case.

Now defamation and tarnishment generally considers cases where you disparage the brand image directly. In the case of Debbie Does Dallas, it shows Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders being sluts or whatever. If you just mentioned some trademarked company without talking shit about it, you likely have a good chance of winning the lawsuit in the absurdly unlikely scenario where they sue some random ass porn dev. The problem is, they have corporate lawyers and unlimited money while you are just scrapping by making $58 a month on patreon. It's just not worth the risk.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Ok, that conversation would be retarded even with the actual company names, but you get the picture. It turns the script into a parody of real life, which is usually fine, but some writers might want a closer representation of our society.

Do they really ?

Look at the stories. Globally a third don't happen in our time, while another third clearly happen in an alternate universe (unless I missed the memo saying that magic and succubus are real). And among the remaining third, how many of them effectively happen in something that can be described as a representation close to what our society is ?
There's a ton of fantasy in those stories, and it's far to be limited to the lewd content.
Take incest stories by example. ~80% of them present a family of 5, living in a big suburban house, with the mother as only income source ; a mother that generally works only 3 hours by day and more often at secretary-like level than at CEO-like one. If the writers of those stories want a more realistic representation of our society, it's not by using trademark that he'll achieve it.


But anyway, it's a false debate, because it's not the use of trademarks that will make the representation be closer of our society. Partly because: what society are you talking about exactly ?

You used Facebook among your examples, but why the fuck Facebook ? It represent nothing for players living in Eastern Europe and Russia, they mostly prefer to use VK. And I'm sure that in the Asia-Pacific zone they have their own equivalent, probably Chinese, that they mostly use in place of Facebook.
All those trademarks only speak to Western players. And even if we probably are the biggest part of the community, we aren't all the community ; perhaps not even its majority.

The question is more: Why the fuck is there so many cheap writers who use disguised trademarks ?

The don't need to say "facegram" or "instabook", they can perfectly say "social network". They don't need to say "WhatsChat" or "snapApp", they can perfectly say "chatting app". In fact, they can even totally invent the name. Then, the first time they'll use it, just say, "TalkTogether, you know, the new chatting app everybody talk about". And it's done, players will understand that it's the equivalent of their WhatsApp, WeChat, or whatever can be the name of their favorite chatting app.
There's absolutely no need to use trademarks, whatever the way they are wrote, period. And it's by not using them that you finally achieve to have a representation that can possibly be closer to our society, because this time "society" cover the whole world.
Incidentally, I know, my question answer itself. They do it because they are cheap writers.

If you just mentioned some trademarked company without talking shit about it, you likely have a good chance of winning the lawsuit in the absurdly unlikely scenario where they sue some random ass porn dev.

Since most of those companies are registered in the USA and would sue you there, I wouldn't be so quick to bet on your victory.
The simple fact to associate the trademark to pornography would already constitute a serious blow to their image. Add to this that, with their judicial system, when you can't win a case with arguments, you can still try to win it by totally damaging the image of your opponent. Then what a guy creating pornographic content can do against Meta that offer to US families, spread throughout the country, the marvelous possibility to still have regular news from their twice removed cousins ?

But I agree that there's few risk that they sue you, unless they want to make an example.

 

[qwsaq]

It turns the script into a parody of real life, which is usually fine, but some writers might want a closer representation of our society.

It kinda depends on how you go about it. Like, yeah, calling it "Facefuck" is an obvious parody and it fits where it fits. But if you want a more serious atmosphere to the story, you can just say "InstaChat" is the default social network everyone in the game uses and nobody would bat an eye.

You used Facebook among your examples, but why the fuck Facebook ? It represent nothing for players living in Eastern Europe and Russia, they mostly prefer to use VK. And I'm sure that in the Asia-Pacific zone they have their own equivalent, probably Chinese, that they mostly use in place of Facebook.
All those trademarks only speak to Western players. And even if we probably are the biggest part of the community, we aren't all the community ; perhaps not even its majority.

That kinda depends where the story takes place. Also there is the fact that "Western culture" is definitely more universally recognizable despite what one's cosmopolitan bias might lead them to believe. No Russian is gonna be like "what the hell is Facebook?" They already know exactly what it is. Tons of Americans have never heard of VK in their entire lives. So unless your setting is specifically intended to emulate a particular culture, Western tropes are the default.

The don't need to say "facegram" or "instabook", they can perfectly say "social network". They don't need to say "WhatsChat" or "snapApp", they can perfectly say "chatting app"

Nobody talks like that anywhere. People don't say "I'm going to use my search engine to look something up." They "Google it."

That said: Making up a name out of whole cloth is genuinely better and the puns are primarily just people choosing not to bother with that particular detail so they can focus their attention elsewhere. You don't even need to spell it out with exposition like "the new chatting app everybody talk about." Respect the player's intelligence. Introduce the app's existence with one scene where someone's browsing it and people are gonna figure out what's going on without much help.
This applies to basically any other company name. Real life companies put in tons of effort making sure everyone knows what their business is by looking at their logo for 2 seconds. A logo bearing a coffee cup should be enough to tell most people what they're going to that shop for.

 

[EvolutionKills]

Honestly, with how every other game skirts Patreon by using 'true story' patches to flip a variable and turn all those roomates into not-roomates; how hard would it really be to do the same and turn every reference of Headpaper, McDavies, and Hunda into Facebook, McDonalds, and Honda?

 

[Brosewood]

Honestly, with how every other game skirts Patreon by using 'true story' patches to flip a variable and turn all those roomates into not-roomates; how hard would it really be to do the same and turn every reference of Headpaper, McDavies, and Hunda into Facebook, McDonalds, and Honda?

Well that's a simple case of risk vs reward.

Incest is one of the most popular adult genres. I'd imagine one would see a sizable increase in their audience if they were to include that sort of content in their game, which in turn means more revenue. Obviously, Patreon could decide you've broken ToS at any given moment, but there's always the opportunity to move on to somewhere like Subscribestar if you really need to. There is risk, but you admittedly stand to gain a fair amount of money from that risk.

Real brands on the other hand? Does anyone really care? I'd imagine less than 1% of people playing these sorts of games would deeply care. Even if you could have some sort of 'on/off' switch, you're going to more effort into something most people don't care about and opening yourself up to legal action from companies who could wreck you in court.

 

[desmosome]

But anyway, it's a false debate, because it's not the use of trademarks that will make the representation be closer of our society. Partly because: what society are you talking about exactly ?

Ummm, whatever society they want to depict in their game. Are you saying they shouldn't base their story in the US or something?

The don't need to say "facegram" or "instabook", they can perfectly say "social network". They don't need to say "WhatsChat" or "snapApp", they can perfectly say "chatting app". In fact, they can even totally invent the name. Then, the first time they'll use it, just say, "TalkTogether, you know, the new chatting app everybody talk about". And it's done, players will understand that it's the equivalent of their WhatsApp, WeChat, or whatever can be the name of their favorite chatting app.

It's part of the cultural fabric of whatever society they want to depict. Are you saying that depicting realistic conversations between people living in a certain place, at a certain time period is ill advised?

"Yo, meet up on Steam later. Let's play that new game." That's a thing that some kid might say as they part ways after school. Subsituting the word steam with "that gaming app" is not gonna lead to natural dialogue. They could substitute it with some made up name, and most people would get it based on context clues, but that is just a decision a risk-adverse writer could make. It's not the rule or even the expectation that they must censor those trademarks in general fiction.

There's absolutely no need to use trademarks, whatever the way they are wrote, period. And it's by not using them that you finally achieve to have a representation that can possibly be closer to our society, because this time "society" cover the whole world.

Again, I have no idea what your deal is lol. Why do you think a story has to be generalized to represent the whole world? That's a ridiculous notion. There are probably more fiction that takes place in a real world setting (ex. 90s New York City) than whatever you are advocating.

The simple fact to associate the trademark to pornography would already constitute a serious blow to their image.

No that's not such a simple fact. Link some case law and let's see if companies have won this argument within the context of this discussion. That context is, using trademarked names in a non-disparaging manner within the script of some adult media.

Basically, anybody can sue for any fucking reason. It doesn't mean they will win. If they sue for some innocuous mention of a trademark in a script, they need to argue why just being mentioned in porn is harmful to their image. And it's not as clear cut as you think it is. If there is case law, I'd like to see it.

There is a huge difference between some characters eating McDonalds before they go home and bang vs those characters having a Big Mac fueled orgy while defecating on the statue of Roanald McDonald.

But the reality is, they won't sue you right away even if they somehow took notice. They will send a Cease and Desist letter and you will comply with them. Simple as that. No one in their right mind will try to defend the use of a trademark in a minor part of their script when they have so little to gain from it and a lot to lose.

 

[Catapo]

The question is more: Why the fuck is there so many cheap writers who use disguised trademarks ?

The don't need to say "facegram" or "instabook", they can perfectly say "social network". They don't need to say "WhatsChat" or "snapApp", they can perfectly say "chatting app". In fact, they can even totally invent the name.

100% THIS.

I would even take it further and make it even more vague.

Yes you don't "Use a search engine to look something up" but you also don't have to "Google it" you can just "look something up online"

You don't "Meet at the Starbucks downtown", instead you "Meet at the cofee shop downtown".

You don't "Get on Steam to play that new game", instead you "play that new game" (your character should already know it is on steam). If you want to say "I bought a new game on Steam" just say "I bought a new game online"

You don't "Message them on WhatsApp" or "Mesage them on the chatting app", instead you just "Message them" or "Text them".

Regarding Anne's answer you don't have to just replace the Trademark name directly with a generic wording but you can rephrase the line in many ways to make it generic or vague.

 

[Meaning Less]

Anime does that a lot, and it always feels like lazy writing or a subtle ad.

Either create a fictional company in your universe if it is part of the plot, or you are better of not even naming it:
Instead of "let's go to wacdonals" just write "let's go grab a burger", and so on.

This stuff also doesn't age well neither does it work worldwide, because some countries might not have the service you are referencing, china doesn't use google for instance, so if a chinese dev writes a Baidu misnomer most people not from china would be confused.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Ummm, whatever society they want to depict in their game. Are you saying they shouldn't base their story in the US or something?

No, I'm saying that it will rarely looks like a representation closer to our society, unless you strictly live in the country the game is based on. There's nothing like a global society only, at most, a depiction that can possibly be recognized by most of the players.
But recognizing it because you've seen Hollywood movies do not mean that it look closer to what you know. I just mean that it don't feel too odd.

It's part of the cultural fabric of whatever society they want to depict. Are you saying that depicting realistic conversations between people living in a certain place, at a certain time period is ill advised?

I'm saying that believing that it's how people naturally talk is an error. Like Catapo implied, it's not necessarily what people will say.
Online I would effectively say "Google it", but not a single time have I said it in real live. I too would effectively say something like "look it up online" or, "use your phone".
Neither I, nor the people I know, ever said "Starbuck" unless it's to effectively address the brand itself, or if it's a meeting point. "Meet me at Starbuck, the one [some address] at [some time]", but we "go take a coffee". And here the same apply whatever the brand ; the name do not replace the function, and it's the function that matters.

"Yo, meet up on Steam later. Let's play that new game." That's a thing that some kid might say as they part ways after school. Subsituting the word steam with "that gaming app" is not gonna lead to natural dialogue.

Because it was late and my brain was focused on the trademarks. But it's Catapo who's right, not even saying "gaming app" is what would happen in real live.
Perhaps that where you live it's how kids would talk, but where I live they'll say "hey, want to play that new game with me ? Let's say around [whatever time], okay ?". The fact that it will be through Steam's overlay is implicit, there's strictly no need to add it.

Again, I have no idea what your deal is lol. Why do you think a story has to be generalized to represent the whole world?

Because representing the whole world, or even just the whole Western world is not something possible.

Do you recognize where you live, as well as people behavior, in the Japanese based games you play ?
That you recognize "current time", probably, but it's not the same that a representation close to the society you live in, and even less to what feel like a natural behavior. Not because it isn't inherently natural, but because it's not the "natural" you live in.
"Hey, it's 7PM, let's eat..." Every Spanish or Greek player (among others in Europe), "you mean 'let's starts a two hours long aperitif', right ?", this while for most Scandinavian players the reaction would be, "so late ?". And this is just to limits to European examples.

There are probably more fiction that takes place in a real world setting (ex. 90s New York City) than whatever you are advocating.

And how many games do I advocate as taking place in a real world setting ?

I'm curious to know the answer, because I haven't addressed this notion.
If, obviously, stories happening on the future are necessarily excluded, it's not the same for games taking place in the past. Some are purely fictional, but others are based on our world history, and therefore take place in a real world setting. This while, to be an "alternate universe" and not "another universe", the setting need to have strong similitude with our own world.
Therefore, I said that more than two thirds of the games take place in a real world setting... Do you think it's more ?

Also there is the fact that "Western culture" is definitely more universally recognizable despite what one's cosmopolitan bias might lead them to believe.

What is the "Western culture" ?
There's 1,000 Km between the North of France and its South, and both the culture and behavior are different enough to be clearly seen. France and Germany share a border, but live in two different world.
In both case there's a shared common ground, but it's relatively superficial. Enough to not feel totally lost, but not enough to fit in without the need to change your habit and behavior.
And of course, the bigger will be the distance, the bigger will be the differences.

No Russian is gonna be like "what the hell is Facebook?" They already know exactly what it is.

It's not what I said, I was explicitly addressing the "close representation".
It's not because someone live in Belgium or Netherlands, that he don't know what a plane is. But the need to take a plane to go somewhere else in the country will absolutely not be a "close representation" of the society he live in. He will understand, but not identify to.

Nobody talks like that anywhere. People don't say "I'm going to use my search engine to look something up." They "Google it."

Who the fuck say "Google it" ? People "look it up" or "search for it".
Google exist since a bit more than 20 years and, while I've read and wrote it, I don't remember having heard it once. It perhaps happened, but so exceptionally that it leaved no trace in my memory.
And, in before, yeah I'm old, but I don't live, nor works, in a retirement home, and I have kids that are now young adults, so I know how youth talk.

 

[VMiller]

Who the fuck say "Google it" ?

In Russia, people talk like this.

 

[Count Morado]

In Russia, people talk like this.

 

[anne O'nymous]

In Russia, people talk like this.

Well, not today...

 

[qwsaq]

there's a shared common ground, but it's relatively superficial.

"Culture" as a whole is pretty superficial and ill-defined by definition. My point isn't that everyone's gonna "identify" with the same set of experiences. It's that there's a shared set of tropes and connotations that will be easily recognizable as part of "that culture." And as a general rule, there's a lot more horizontal transfer of ideas from Western/Central Europe and North America that would be easily recognizable and understood abroad in a way that doesn't apply in the other direction.
This is why I say Western tropes and clichés are an effective default. Unless you're specifically emulating a particular culture, the vague commonalities between these groups are sufficient to be understood, almost universally, without exposition.

 

[Icarus Media]

'Their eyes met over a pumpkin spice latte' is not something I expect to read in a book to be honest.

Unless it's a Chav romance novel, and even then there is only so often you can write "Ooh chips and a kebab after the club? Take me behind the bins Dave and show me you love me".