China is terrible at the moment

BigSuperslime

New Member
Feb 3, 2022
6
11
I'm a Chinese, it's too bad, I have chronic depression and most of the time I'm delirious. After a period of depression improved, I realized that only four or five years later, the society is so bad now. This year alone, 11.79 million college students in China have graduated, not from vocational and technical colleges, but from universities. What I mean by this is that they are too well educated, and they are no longer willing to do repetitive and boring manual labor with very low wages, and they have their own spiritual pursuits. But the bad thing is that there aren't that many skilled jobs available in society, and most of them are just boring manual labor. Okay, I read for 19 years, and you told me that after graduation, I was going to work as a worker on a construction site, and I was going to work as a worker in a factory, and I'm sorry, I don't do it. Unemployed after graduating from university is the current situation in China, with a high unemployment rate among young people, and most of them are gnawing at home. Then the youth unemployment rate is high, there is no money to get married, there is no money to buy a house, the birth rate has plummeted, and related industries have been affected, real estate, medical care, pensions, education... Vicious circle. Then these large numbers of highly educated youths found that society could not meet their expectations, and began to have the common disease of intellectuals, chattering, which exacerbated social unrest。。。。。 I think that such a big China will end sooner or later, of course, this is an exaggeration.
When it comes to my own, I just want to say, it's crazy, no matter what the job, everybody is crazy about the same competition.
There are many details that can be said, but there are not tens of thousands of words that cannot be finished...
 

Hagatagar

Well-Known Member
Oct 11, 2019
1,074
3,121
That's actually a problem in many countries.

Because the goal of obtaining a university degree is the focus of social attention and is seen as "socially elitist" and that all other degrees are regarded as inferior.
However, this not only leads to an "overqualification" of the population for manual labor or menial jobs, but also to a division into classes between the well-educated and those with lesser degrees.
It's an ever rising social problem.

There are only a few countries in the western world that doesn't really care about a degree, as long as the general education was done right.
 

Shikanami

Kinky Pandas Games
Game Developer
Mar 11, 2024
60
46
The big problem with our 'modern' societies today is that nothing has meaning anymore. People, especially young people, as you say, are looking for meaning. A purpose for their existence... But today's society has none. Its only purpose is to crush people and use them and throw them away like sh*t. Today's society isn't designed to make people happy and fulfilled, it's designed to make a profit and kill them.

Unfortunately, as Hagatagar says, this is the case almost everywhere in the world. Perhaps your system is a little more rigid and punitive in China than elsewhere, but this search for meaning, this search for destiny, is everywhere in the world.

The main problem is that everything is done to extinguish the slightest spark of a dream. This is even more true on the Internet, where most people let off steam and are nasty and aggressive towards others. Society and the Internet tend to crush hopes and dreams. (Look at the number of people who dream of making a living from their activity and who fail, either because of the difficulties of society and competition, or because of the malice of others for example).

One of the solutions seems to be to manage to get out of this 'conformity' and get back to a simple life, but again, nothing is done to help...

Can't you go inland in China and live a simpler life? More minimalist? Escape from this disgusting capitalist system and go back to basics? Take some inspiration from Taoism, for example? Easy to say, I know...
 

anne O'nymous

I'm not grumpy, I'm just coded that way.
Modder
Donor
Respected User
Jun 10, 2017
10,620
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The big problem with our 'modern' societies today is that nothing has meaning anymore. People, especially young people, as you say, are looking for meaning. A purpose for their existence... But today's society has none. Its only purpose is to crush people and use them and throw them away like sh*t. Today's society isn't designed to make people happy and fulfilled, it's designed to make a profit and kill them.
Okay... I'm tempted to answer this by: The big problem is that nowadays young peoples don't think by themselves, just following a crowd attracted by a mirage. And, probably more important, are living in delusion about what reality should be and what reality was.


I mean, I laughed when reading your last sentence. Seriously, what do you think society was in the past ?

Have you read Germinal, by Zola ? The story of late 19th century french miners fighting for their rights. While being a fiction, everything it talk about is true, and it don't just apply to french miners, it apply to the working class all around the world. And there's others books like that, depicting the reality of the working class in the late 19th century, early 20th century.

Of course, nowadays society isn't perfect, but unlike in the early 1900's, in most part of the world you don't anymore have to works 12 or more hours a day, 7 days a week, 6 if your country was highly religious and you got lucky enough to have the full day off. All this with not even a single holiday day. You don't anymore life in a house/flat that is owned by your employer, and deducted from your salary. You don't anymore shop in stores own by your employer, not having to pay, but having everything you buy directly deducted from your salary. A salary that, at constant life cost was around 5 time less than nowadays average salary.
More important, you can now goes to university. You don't anymore have the, near to mandatory, obligation to follow your father's step. This simply because the schools too, if you had the luxury to live in a country where there's public schools, were generally owned by your employer, and their goals wasn't to educate you, but to prepare you to works for him. Speaking of school, in most part of the world child labor isn't legal anymore, and also not really needed. So you can be educated, and you can be it without feeling guilty because you're not working to help your parents pay for tonight meal.


Life is not perfect, far from it, but get rid of the illusion that it was better in the past.

In 1900, in the US an average worker was working 2,938 hours by year. In 1950, it dropped to 1,989 hours, and in 2017 it's was 1,757 hours. In 1900 an US worker had 5 vacation days, 17 in 1940, and 20 in 2000 ; and the US aren't really a good example, but it's, alas, seen as reference by so many people...[ ]
I'm 53yo, and it wasn't better when I was in school, than it is nowadays. Globally speaking it was more the opposite. One of the main change is that there isn't anymore things like the "20/30/40 years working there" medals. Joining a company, you were expected to dedicate it all your life, and all your time; something that stopped to be a thing for the generation right before mine. Being 30yo and wanting to join a company was suspicious, even if you leaved on your own. If you were a good worker your previous employer wouldn't have let you go, so you surely worth nothing. And if you had the chance to be hired, it would have been to be treated like the not reliable person you were to their eyes.


There's a meaning in life, but it depend on everyone and, more important, it's you that have to find it. It will not come to you just because you followed a full scholar curriculum and now have a highly valuable diploma. By doing so with the hope to find the meaning of life during the process, you just end with a piece of paper and no answer.
And it's there, and nowhere else, that society have now evolved in the worse say. They value diplomas, and more importantly high ones, way too much, giving youth the false idea that it's what solve everything in life. And countries don't even to this for their youth, they do it to looks good on the charts ; hey, looks, my citizens are better than yours, and my universities are higher ranked...
I have a cousin that is stone mason. He do the same number of hours than me, while earning almost twice more. All this with a (seen as) "no value diploma", while I'm now team manager, second to the boss. And both of us are happy, because we found the meaning of life by doing what we wanted to do and liking doing it.
And the key is here. I followed a classical curriculum because it's what I wanted, while he didn't because it's what he wanted. This while nowadays most peoples follow a classical curriculum just because they are told that they must do it.


This is even more true on the Internet, where most people let off steam and are nasty and aggressive towards others.
I'm grumpy as fuck and can be a real bitch when I want, but I'm not nasty, and never aggressive for no reason. And I'm not the only one, most peoples, even on Internet, are nice peoples who stay nice as long as you don't starts to shit on their shoes.
Internet just expose more the trashy minority, but it neither created it, nor increased it. This even if those peoples gained confidence through their use of internet, and are now more openly trashy also in real life.
But if you base your view regarding the society on them, once again it's a you issue, not a reality.

I live in France, and according to French peoples on Internet, the Olympic games were going to be them striking every second, trashing every single event, and so on. Oh, it was a real concern, because they were so loud, making it looks like the whole country was talking.
Well, the reality is that they tried, being 5 here, 10 there, looking like idiots so isolated that you can't even qualify them as being a minority. Internet is a distorting mirror, it don't, and will never, represent the reality. Angry peoples on Internet are not different from drunkard in a bar. They found an audience and use it to feel important, that's all. And in both case, it's nothing more than one loud person facing tens (thousands for internet) of silent ones.


Society and the Internet tend to crush hopes and dreams. (Look at the number of people who dream of making a living from their activity and who fail, either because of the difficulties of society and competition, or because of the malice of others for example).
And again, it was worse in the past, even in a not so long past.
Having a freezer was a luxury in the 70's. Having a computer was a luxury in the 90's. Nowadays, a 20yo will claim to be poor if he don't have both, plus a microwave, a big flat TV screen, a TV cable operator, a good quality ISP, and a less than 3yo smartphone. Oh, and I forgot, they are even poorer if they can't afford to have their dinner delivered at their home at anytime they want.

Oh, obviously, this doesn't mean that there isn't poverty. There's poverty, and in some countries it's worse than in others. But you don't hear about those poor peoples, because they don't have times to spend on Internet, assuming that they have the computer or smartphone needed to goes on Internet.
If you complain about your own poverty on internet, at one time you had enough to buy a computer or a smartphone, and now you've still enough to pay for your ISP or phone operator. Two things that are a luxury for anyone who's actually poor.


One of the solutions seems to be to manage to get out of this 'conformity' and get back to a simple life, but again, nothing is done to help...
There's nothing preventing you to do it, and you can perfectly live that way. But I guess that the suspension point hide a "doing it while keeping the level of luxury and comfort I actually have thanks to my computer, smartphone and many service subscriptions".


Can't you go inland in China and live a simpler life? More minimalist? Escape from this disgusting capitalist system and go back to basics? Take some inspiration from Taoism, for example? Easy to say, I know...
Strictly speaking, it's also easy to do, most of the country live inland.
But it goes for China like it goes for the rest of the world. The instant youth learn about the life outside of the village, they want to leave to live it. They are the migrants no one talk about, lured by the idea that life will be better in the town, totally clueless about the reality of that life.


Now, to come back to China, it's a really strange move coming from the Party. Having a big population of unemployed disillusioned bored highly educated young peoples isn't the best way to keep a country under a strict control. It's not a instant strike out, but it will stack up, years after years, until it reach a critical mass.
 

Death Panda

Member
May 8, 2023
180
373
Born too late to explore earth
Born too early to explore the stars
Born just in time to foment WWIII
 

Ass prefer

Engaged Member
Sep 30, 2022
2,981
3,602
Okay... I'm tempted to answer this by: The big problem is that nowadays young peoples don't think by themselves, just following a crowd attracted by a mirage. And, probably more important, are living in delusion about what reality should be and what reality was.


I mean, I laughed when reading your last sentence. Seriously, what do you think society was in the past ?

Have you read Germinal, by Zola ? The story of late 19th century french miners fighting for their rights. While being a fiction, everything it talk about is true, and it don't just apply to french miners, it apply to the working class all around the world. And there's others books like that, depicting the reality of the working class in the late 19th century, early 20th century.

Of course, nowadays society isn't perfect, but unlike in the early 1900's, in most part of the world you don't anymore have to works 12 or more hours a day, 7 days a week, 6 if your country was highly religious and you got lucky enough to have the full day off. All this with not even a single holiday day. You don't anymore life in a house/flat that is owned by your employer, and deducted from your salary. You don't anymore shop in stores own by your employer, not having to pay, but having everything you buy directly deducted from your salary. A salary that, at constant life cost was around 5 time less than nowadays average salary.
More important, you can now goes to university. You don't anymore have the, near to mandatory, obligation to follow your father's step. This simply because the schools too, if you had the luxury to live in a country where there's public schools, were generally owned by your employer, and their goals wasn't to educate you, but to prepare you to works for him. Speaking of school, in most part of the world child labor isn't legal anymore, and also not really needed. So you can be educated, and you can be it without feeling guilty because you're not working to help your parents pay for tonight meal.


Life is not perfect, far from it, but get rid of the illusion that it was better in the past.

In 1900, in the US an average worker was working 2,938 hours by year. In 1950, it dropped to 1,989 hours, and in 2017 it's was 1,757 hours. In 1900 an US worker had 5 vacation days, 17 in 1940, and 20 in 2000 ; and the US aren't really a good example, but it's, alas, seen as reference by so many people...[ ]
I'm 53yo, and it wasn't better when I was in school, than it is nowadays. Globally speaking it was more the opposite. One of the main change is that there isn't anymore things like the "20/30/40 years working there" medals. Joining a company, you were expected to dedicate it all your life, and all your time; something that stopped to be a thing for the generation right before mine. Being 30yo and wanting to join a company was suspicious, even if you leaved on your own. If you were a good worker your previous employer wouldn't have let you go, so you surely worth nothing. And if you had the chance to be hired, it would have been to be treated like the not reliable person you were to their eyes.


There's a meaning in life, but it depend on everyone and, more important, it's you that have to find it. It will not come to you just because you followed a full scholar curriculum and now have a highly valuable diploma. By doing so with the hope to find the meaning of life during the process, you just end with a piece of paper and no answer.
And it's there, and nowhere else, that society have now evolved in the worse say. They value diplomas, and more importantly high ones, way too much, giving youth the false idea that it's what solve everything in life. And countries don't even to this for their youth, they do it to looks good on the charts ; hey, looks, my citizens are better than yours, and my universities are higher ranked...
I have a cousin that is stone mason. He do the same number of hours than me, while earning almost twice more. All this with a (seen as) "no value diploma", while I'm now team manager, second to the boss. And both of us are happy, because we found the meaning of life by doing what we wanted to do and liking doing it.
And the key is here. I followed a classical curriculum because it's what I wanted, while he didn't because it's what he wanted. This while nowadays most peoples follow a classical curriculum just because they are told that they must do it.




I'm grumpy as fuck and can be a real bitch when I want, but I'm not nasty, and never aggressive for no reason. And I'm not the only one, most peoples, even on Internet, are nice peoples who stay nice as long as you don't starts to shit on their shoes.
Internet just expose more the trashy minority, but it neither created it, nor increased it. This even if those peoples gained confidence through their use of internet, and are now more openly trashy also in real life.
But if you base your view regarding the society on them, once again it's a you issue, not a reality.

I live in France, and according to French peoples on Internet, the Olympic games were going to be them striking every second, trashing every single event, and so on. Oh, it was a real concern, because they were so loud, making it looks like the whole country was talking.
Well, the reality is that they tried, being 5 here, 10 there, looking like idiots so isolated that you can't even qualify them as being a minority. Internet is a distorting mirror, it don't, and will never, represent the reality. Angry peoples on Internet are not different from drunkard in a bar. They found an audience and use it to feel important, that's all. And in both case, it's nothing more than one loud person facing tens (thousands for internet) of silent ones.




And again, it was worse in the past, even in a not so long past.
Having a freezer was a luxury in the 70's. Having a computer was a luxury in the 90's. Nowadays, a 20yo will claim to be poor if he don't have both, plus a microwave, a big flat TV screen, a TV cable operator, a good quality ISP, and a less than 3yo smartphone. Oh, and I forgot, they are even poorer if they can't afford to have their dinner delivered at their home at anytime they want.

Oh, obviously, this doesn't mean that there isn't poverty. There's poverty, and in some countries it's worse than in others. But you don't hear about those poor peoples, because they don't have times to spend on Internet, assuming that they have the computer or smartphone needed to goes on Internet.
If you complain about your own poverty on internet, at one time you had enough to buy a computer or a smartphone, and now you've still enough to pay for your ISP or phone operator. Two things that are a luxury for anyone who's actually poor.




There's nothing preventing you to do it, and you can perfectly live that way. But I guess that the suspension point hide a "doing it while keeping the level of luxury and comfort I actually have thanks to my computer, smartphone and many service subscriptions".




Strictly speaking, it's also easy to do, most of the country live inland.
But it goes for China like it goes for the rest of the world. The instant youth learn about the life outside of the village, they want to leave to live it. They are the migrants no one talk about, lured by the idea that life will be better in the town, totally clueless about the reality of that life.


Now, to come back to China, it's a really strange move coming from the Party. Having a big population of unemployed disillusioned bored highly educated young peoples isn't the best way to keep a country under a strict control. It's not a instant strike out, but it will stack up, years after years, until it reach a critical mass.
In short, become gay. Find a British lover.
And you will happy.
 

Kamishirov

Member
Sep 22, 2023
153
1,043
It's probably less about the type of work than the quality of the atmosphere people are in, if people are treated as nothing more than living wage work horses then what's the point? May as well lay flat.

If you were on a construction site with some good boys, a chill foreman, where you could have a few beers, take a nice long smoke break or multiple smoke breaks and the schedule is at a nice sustainable pace then at least that's a liveable condition to be in.

The thing is that corporates tighten the screw around your nuts constantly to get every speck of perceived "value" out of you. All they're really doing though is creating an environment of gross inefficiency that kills people and one where a managerial class can flourish.

The difference between slaves and the rest of us in the "free World" is that they earn a living through their labour, we earn a living wage and conveniently get taxed for the privilege.
 
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Cartman-Brah

Member
Jul 8, 2024
140
228
You have one of the 2-3 largest economies in the world, my friend. you are at the top in almost every field from science to sports. i think you live in a better country than most countries. i hope you find the happiness you seek as soon as possible.
 

Losersriot

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2021
1,438
2,407
I'm a Chinese, it's too bad, I have chronic depression and most of the time I'm delirious. After a period of depression improved, I realized that only four or five years later, the society is so bad now. This year alone, 11.79 million college students in China have graduated, not from vocational and technical colleges, but from universities. What I mean by this is that they are too well educated, and they are no longer willing to do repetitive and boring manual labor with very low wages, and they have their own spiritual pursuits. But the bad thing is that there aren't that many skilled jobs available in society, and most of them are just boring manual labor. Okay, I read for 19 years, and you told me that after graduation, I was going to work as a worker on a construction site, and I was going to work as a worker in a factory, and I'm sorry, I don't do it. Unemployed after graduating from university is the current situation in China, with a high unemployment rate among young people, and most of them are gnawing at home. Then the youth unemployment rate is high, there is no money to get married, there is no money to buy a house, the birth rate has plummeted, and related industries have been affected, real estate, medical care, pensions, education... Vicious circle. Then these large numbers of highly educated youths found that society could not meet their expectations, and began to have the common disease of intellectuals, chattering, which exacerbated social unrest。。。。。 I think that such a big China will end sooner or later, of course, this is an exaggeration.
When it comes to my own, I just want to say, it's crazy, no matter what the job, everybody is crazy about the same competition.
There are many details that can be said, but there are not tens of thousands of words that cannot be finished...
You have education lol? Wright Brothers (create airplanes) not have EVEN school education, Walter Pites (Newral Network AI) not have EVEN school education...
Why you still sit and cry in world web? Create something.... flying car or teleportation cabin.
 

♍VoidTraveler

Forum Fanatic
Apr 14, 2021
5,579
14,663
It's not really news that education systems on Earth are flawed in all sorts of ways.
First of all we need to develop adaptive education that will constantly adapt to the state of the country and the world, and not stagnate.
Then the education methods themselves need to be vastly improved, we don't really live long enough to waste like 20 years learning some shit that may not even guarantee a stable job after graduation.
And then there's the boredom, education system needs to be able to figure out what people like doing and what suits them.
Match them with the right job. :whistle::coffee:
 

anne O'nymous

I'm not grumpy, I'm just coded that way.
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Jun 10, 2017
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Then the education methods themselves need to be vastly improved, we don't really live long enough to waste like 20 years learning some shit that may not even guarantee a stable job after graduation.
We do live long enough for that, and most of what you learn, or at least are expected to learn, during the 15 first years is basic cognitive skills.
Some educational systems are worse than others on that side, but when you're in Math class by example, what you learn isn't just that 1 plus 1 equal 2. It's also logical mental processing and, when you'll reach High School, critical thinking. Solving an equation with one or two unknown values isn't a guess, you're expected to analyze the equation, searching for its meaning, putting aside the impossibilities, then finally coming to the correct conclusion or correct range of possibilities. This is a cognitive skill that apply everywhere in your daily life, because it's exactly the same mental process that you are expected to use when you read, by example, that "earth is flat", "illuminati control the world", and stupidities like that.


But I agree with you on the fact that the whole educational systems isn't adapted to nowadays children. It should be more versatile and adaptive, instead of being directive like it's actually the case almost everywhere.
Until (more or less) the 50's, you were directed depending of your parent's social class. If they were manual workers, you were sent to professional curriculum. Whatever if you were clearly showing sign that you could be a nuclear physicist, you were the child of manual workers, you'll be a manual worker yourself.
Then, until (still more or less) the 80's, you were directed depending of your parent's wealth. If your father was a successful carpenter, you had the same curriculum than a senior executive. Whatever if you were clearly showing sign that you were dumb as fuck, you come from a rich family, you'll have job for rich people.
Then, now nothing matters. You are in school, you are expected to goes as far as possible, even if it imply to partly lower the tests difficulties to ensure that a majority will graduate and be able to continue. Side note: in the USA there's still a wealth selection because they are dumb enough to let education be a luxury.

This is not how education should works, but I admit that I don't have the answer to "how should it works", just knowing how it shouldn't.


And then there's the boredom, education system needs to be able to figure out what people like doing and what suits them.
I disagree, it's not the role of the education system to figure what you like doing. But its role should be to help you find it, what it doesn't.