Clarification on rule 9.1

[maladroit]

Rule 9.1 is a relatively new addition to the forum rules. It says

9. AI Content Guidelines

1. Any AI-generated content that resembles minors or teens is absolutely prohibited.​

​

We've had a couple of recent submissions that have art that's pretty clearly AI-generated and that include characters that resemble minors or teens. Most recent examples: here and here.

The first game was flagged 32 times, and at least some of those flags were in reference to the rule about AI content that resembles minors or teens. Dozens of comments were deleted and flagging was blocked, but the mod comment mentions only rule 7, nothing about rule 9.1. I flagged the second game yesterday and the response was "I think that rule is for realistic AI stuff".

Can we get some clarity on what exactly this rule is meant to address? Because "AI-generated content that resembles minors or teens" is a pretty broad description, and it seems pretty clear that both of the games above fall into that broad description. Following a broad description like that with "absolutely prohibited", and then choosing not to enforce the rule against content that seems to match it, is leading to confusion and a sense that the rule is being either selectively enforced or ignored.

To be clear I'm not asking that the games in question be removed. If anything, I think the rule should be removed, or at least updated, if it's not going to be enforced as it's written. If admins believe the rule is needed and must be enforced, but we're not going to enforce it on games like the two above that seem pretty clearly to fit, can we get some clarity on what the rule is for, and how and when it will be enforced?

What's actually allowed under rule 9.1, and what's actually not?

What's "realistic AI stuff", and how does it differ from what we're seeing (for example) here? Are we talking photorealism? Is the distinction 2D vs 3D art? Something else? Where is the line?

I don't mean to stir up shit, but I hope the admins can see that having rules that are unclear, unenforced or inconsistently enforced is not good for the site. Just looking for clarity and consistency here. Hopefully that will save the mods some headaches as well, since fewer people will flag things that the rule does not apply to.

 

[Ashira13]

no teens? so basically no 18 or 19 year old characters rendered by ai's?

 

[maladroit]

no teens? so basically no 18 or 19 year old characters rendered by ai's?

Right, that's another way in which the rule is confusing. If I use AI to generate an 18-year old character, it'd be totally acceptable on any mainstream website, but per the current language of the rule, not here. It seems like the rule is both overly broad, and not being applied in cases that clearly fit. That feels like a bad rule.

 

[Zardoz23]

no teens? so basically no 18 or 19 year old characters rendered by ai's?

Slightly off topic here but is "teen" even a genre of porn anymore? I remember way back in the day when I was young and first discovered porn "teen" or stuff claiming to be "barely legal" was a thing and very popular. But in the years (decades really, fuck I'm old) since then it seems like the porn industry and average viewer has just accepted the idea that (almost) all porn is a lie. That "18 year old" you're fapping to can be anywhere from 18 to 28 and, when it comes down to it, no one actually cares. Putting the word "teen" into a porn search engine just feels superfluous at this point. But maybe that's just the crotchety old man in me speaking.

 

[M Schum]

no teens? so basically no 18 or 19 year old characters rendered by ai's?

It says minors, this is a very broad context since that can range from 18 to 21 and since I will default to what is consider a minor, you know that disclaimer on the porn movies that say all actors are 18 and above? that.

The whole AI art is likely so people dont try to bypass CP by pretty much uploading what is CP, I dont think its supposed to cover "unrealistic" depictions but we all know Rule 7 is often contested with unrealistic depictions because as Majikoi keep lampshading, they were all 18 by the will of the universe.

 

[Goeffel]

^ there's also the point that image-generating AI SC needs to be "trained", so for AI SC porn pictures of underage characters the most success-promising source for training would be real underage porn pictures.

 

[Skeltom]

^ there's also the point that image-generating AI SC needs to be "trained", so for AI SC porn pictures of underage characters the most success-promising source for training would be real underage porn pictures.

While true, the rule doesn't say depicted in a sexual way, like rule 7 for example. It's more "any and all" which seems like an overly strict rule to me. So an AI generated image of a kid building a sand castle isn't allowed? If so, why? At the very least it's just blatant censorship.

 

[♍VoidTraveler]

I think that rule needs editing, i doubt they actually meant teens.
It's likely the same as rule 7 basically.

 

[maladroit]

I think that rule needs editing, i doubt they actually meant teens.
It's likely the same as rule 7 basically.

The thing that puzzles me is, why does this rule exist?

If they did actually mean it to cover the same bases as rule 7 (I guess technically 1.7), why the vague phrasing around "minors or teens"? Does this rule actually mean, any AI-generated content that breaks rule 7 is prohibited? But then, why do we need a separate rule for AI content? Why not just add "AI-generated or otherwise" to rule 7 and call it a day?

The fact that nobody did that, and instead we got a whole separate rule, makes me think they're trying to address something specific. I'd like to understand what that is. And the fact that the way it's currently written is messy and confusing, and that there are games on the site it should apply to but apparently doesn't, makes me think it really should be rewritten to address whatever specific concern they have, or removed altogether.

 

[Skeltom]

maladroit, I also can't say I'm surprised by your examples either. You stay around here long enough at you see that the people in charge around here have an affinity towards shota content. If those games featured the female variant they wouldn't be on this site, period.

 

[♍VoidTraveler]

Does this rule actually mean, any AI-generated content that breaks rule 7 is prohibited?

That's probably it.

But then, why do we need a separate rule for AI content?

Maybe because someone can claim that it is AI to circumvent rule 7.. or something.

Why not just add "AI-generated or otherwise" to rule 7 and call it a day?

Dunno, i'd just ask Sam or someone on the team to clarify wtf is going on here.

people in charge around here have an affinity towards shota

Doubt it. They also ban shota content.
I can guarantee that because i actually investigated one game once which was banned because of shota in it.

 

[Skeltom]

Doubt it. They also ban shota content.
I can guarantee that because i actually investigated one game once which was banned because of shota in it.

Because they are clearly AI generated adult males, right?

 

[Skeltom]

Probably haven't seen that one yet. It's not like they mod what uploaders are doing, and to mod is not the job of an uploader.
On top of that most of the mods only do something once someone reports it, it can remain unnoticed for years this way.

They absolutely did see it. That warning saying the staff checked it out and allowed it is from that game's thread...

 

[♍VoidTraveler]

They absolutely did see it. That warning saying the staff checked it out and allowed it is from that game's thread...

Sorry glossed over that.
So the thing about this rule 7 is that they're probably okay with stuff that is judged to be

You must be registered to see the links

and

You must be registered to see the links

.
But if the stuff in question is judged to be

You must be registered to see the links

, it gets ban-hammer.
I think that's how their judging shenanigans generally go.
So that's how these shotas are okay, but some other shotas can be not okay, and same thing with lolis.

 

[Skeltom]

Sorry glossed over that.
So the thing about this rule 7 is that they're probably okay with stuff that is judged to be

You must be registered to see the links

and

You must be registered to see the links

.
But if the stuff in question is judged to be

You must be registered to see the links

, it gets ban-hammer.
I think that's how their judging shenanigans generally go.
So that's how these shotas are okay, but some other shotas can be not okay, and same thing with lolis.

That doesn't work though. They either enforce all of the rules or none of them. I don't think anyone looking at them would say they are of age so it goes against rule 7 unless they chose "use discretion for 2d" as a loophole to when it matters. And it is AI generated so not allowed, full stop. Yet here it is readily available for download.

 

[maladroit]

They absolutely did see it. That warning saying the staff checked it out and allowed it is from that game's thread...

Yeah. The full context is, that thread was locked and probably 30-40 comments were wiped last night, basically everything critical of the game, including even non-critical comments mentioning the AI content rule. They took it from 3 or 4 pages of comments down to 1. Whoever was on duty absolutely is aware that folks had questions both about rule 7 and about rule 9.1, but they chose to address only the rule 7 concerns.

So the thing about this rule 7 is that they're probably okay with stuff that is judged to be

You must be registered to see the links

.

I'm not really a shota guy and not a very good judge of kids' ages but the characters in that thread could probably be anywhere between 8 and 16. If the line is pre-pubescent characters, and you're a shota fan who wants the game to stay, you're going to argue the characters are pubescent. Okay sure. But there's no way you're going to argue that they're not minors or teens based on that depiction.

So again I'm back to, why the fuck is rule 9.1 there if we're just going to pretend like it's not? If the only thing we're going to (pretend to) care about is rule 7, then let's just fucking delete it and be done with the confusion.

 

[♍VoidTraveler]

That doesn't work though. They either enforce all of the rules or none of them. I don't think anyone looking at them would say they are of age so it goes against rule 7 unless they chose "use discretion for 2d" as a loophole to when it matters. And it is AI generated so not allowed, full stop. Yet here it is readily available for download.

Ultimately it doesn't matter, they decided these shotas are okay so they're okay.

So again I'm back to, why the fuck is rule 9.1 there if we're just going to pretend like it's not?

Maybe to troll dem law monkeys who sometimes lurk here and there in search of easy marks to create some noise in vain hopes that their bosses will promote them for it.

 

[Skeltom]

Ultimately it doesn't matter, they decided these shotas are okay so they're okay.

Maybe to troll dem law monkeys who sometimes lurk here and there in search for easy marks to create some noise in the hopes that their bosses will promote them for it.

It does matter. If they are going to show the users that the rules they set in place themselves are only guidelines for them, than how can they expect anyone to take any of the "rules" seriously? I know it's a grey area forum but it's unprofessional at best, and just plain irresponsible at worst.

 

[maladroit]

And I think I've been clear about it but just to reiterate: I'm not judging anyone who's a fan of shotas or lolis, I don't have a beef against these devs or their games, I'm not trying to be an asshole just because this isn't my kink.

Poorly written and poorly enforced rules are bad for the site. They encourage people to push the boundaries and give people the impression that things belong here when they really don't. Maybe the rule is there to troll feds or for plausible deniability, sure, but you can only have so many cases like this where it's obvious that the rules aren't being followed before people start figuring the rules don't apply to them either. At that point, best case scenario is the site becomes increasingly hard to manage as the mods are constantly putting out little fires, and worst case scenario the wrong thing gets posted and stays up too long and the whole site gets swapped out for an FBI banner while they comb the logs for anyone that looks interesting.

 

[Geigi]

It's crazy how much AI teen art/games(mostly with girls ofc)are on this site.