VN Ren'Py Cosy Cafe [v0.13 EA] [Cosy Creator]

[jvbatman]

I think you're right if you're measuring against the real world, but I also think a certain amount of suspension of disbelief is necessary to make the genre work. Personally I don't think that the story experience would have been improved by significantly slowing the progression down. In fact, I think it would risk becoming tedious, as the main theme of the story is the whole found-family thing, and writing six months of regular daily life as they slowly grow into that, as would be realistic, wouldn't be a particularly interesting read.

Having said that, if I were to do it again I would certainly devote more time to going into more depth with Lucy and Vicky's early story - things like the Lucy mother arc I think could be much more impactful if I wrote them now.

I don't know if I could take any more of Lucy's mother than what we already got. She was the worst.

 

[maxthruster]

I don't know if I could take any more of Lucy's mother than what we already got. She was the worst.

I'd love to see her return, personally. It'd be some tasty drama, but also a great opportunity to show Lucy's growth demonstrably if she's able to stand up to her mom. Especially if it's in a public setting, because I'd expect if she returns it will be to try to smear the MC at a FF meeting. So watching Lucy turn that around on her would be sweet justice.

 

[BViking]

That moment when you realize the next update is coming in (hopefully) 2 days.

 

[Cherubin25]

I'm not even talking about the founding family stuff. I do think some of that is silly as well - for reasons I'll expound when I've reached them in my replay and they're fresher in my mind - but that's not really what I'm on about. I'm more referring to the fact that by his 11th day in town he's got a girlfriend who openly offers to let him date others, another girl practically begging to be slapped in chains, and a third sitting in his lap and licking his face. That's only mentioning the more sustained relationships he has, too, not things like fooling around with his teacher or flirting with the headmistress.

Skip forward about two weeks and the girlfriend count is up to four, with a half dozen other girls waiting in the wings - including aforementioned teacher and headmistress. Now, don't get me wrong, I understand the desire to go day by day for this part of the game and I think the progression of the girls has mostly been done pretty well so far, but I think we'd all agree that that's moving pretty fast. Hell, Cosy himself has mentioned that when talking about the newer girls like Hannah and Catherine. The game is certainly enjoyable, but I do think in-world pacing has been one of its big weak points.

It's definitely one of my bigger gripes with harem games as a whole, when they jump the gun in the harem part itself and every girl is just willing to join a one-sided open relationship from the jump. I'm glad that that slowed down for sure. The relationships mostly feel pretty natural - the biggest issue was Akatsuki, before the whole reveal thing - but the timing of them doesn't, at least for the first few. Maybe that's just me, but it's something I've thought since I started playing the game.

This is something which I also had a problem with when I first played the game. That it feels way too effortless how MC gets the girls, since they are basically throwing themselves at him, but this is a problem a bunch of Harem-games have. In fact, Harem-games are usually effortless for the player, since the goal is to have a Harem, so choices usually boil down to "Do you want this woman in your Harem or not?" or "Do you want to fuck this LI or not?".
So in the end the player has to feel like they worked to get the LIs and this was missing at the start for me, since it was too easy to get Lucy, Vicky and Akatsuki. This is already a 3 person Harem, basically without much work you had to do. I think it would have made sense to have Lucy from the start and then only her for some time, before Vicky and Akatsuki join. Which is why I overall gave the game 4 stars back then.

However, I think this has massively improved at this point. You know who the LIs are, but it does not look like it will be as effortless to get them. I mean, in the end, you dont have to do much to get them as a player (which is fine), but since it takes some time and some story progression to get them, it feels way more earned. It took time to get Sarah as your girlfriend and it felt really good, since the player has the feeling that it took some convincing to get her. And other LIs like Cat or Hannah will also join the Harem, but you can feel that you are basically at the start of getting them. So the pacing got better after the first few Harem-members, and I was happy about that. (And for me it was enough of an improvement to give the game 5 Stars)

 

[maxthruster]

This is something which I also had a problem with when I first played the game. That it feels way too effortless how MC gets the girls, since they are basically throwing themselves at him, but this is a problem a bunch of Harem-games have. In fact, Harem-games are usually effortless for the player, since the goal is to have a Harem, so choices usually boil down to "Do you want this woman in your Harem or not?" or "Do you want to fuck this LI or not?".
So in the end the player has to feel like they worked to get the LIs and this was missing at the start for me, since it was too easy to get Lucy, Vicky and Akatsuki. This is already a 3 person Harem, basically without much work you had to do. I think it would have made sense to have Lucy from the start and then only her for some time, before Vicky and Akatsuki join. Which is why I overall gave the game 4 stars back then.

However, I think this has massively improved at this point. You know who the LIs are, but it does not look like it will be as effortless to get them. I mean, in the end, you dont have to do much to get them as a player (which is fine), but since it takes some time and some story progression to get them, it feels way more earned. It took time to get Sarah as your girlfriend and it felt really good, since the player has the feeling that it took some convincing to get her. And other LIs like Cat or Hannah will also join the Harem, but you can feel that you are basically at the start of getting them. So the pacing got better after the first few Harem-members, and I was happy about that. (And for me it was enough of an improvement to give the game 5 Stars)

Totally agree. And they've been worth waiting for. Sarah's first time was such a sweet scene, and getting to see the non-abrasive side of Catherine... argh! My heart!

 

[NoiVul]

It's not THAT unrealistic, women love money and power. They can sniff out a MC like a bloodhound. I also think this setting kind of pre-trained them mentally to think of a FF father head as being a platinum mine, that has value far beyond their person.

One of the early examples of the genres was Tenchi Muyo, where the MC goes from whimpering dipshit to an actual god, and of the girls following him around, only 2 of them were in his weight class.

 

[maxthruster]

It's not THAT unrealistic, women love money and power. They can sniff out a MC like a bloodhound. I also think this setting kind of pre-trained them mentally to think of a FF father head as being a platinum mine, that has value far beyond their person.

Putting aside the, ahem, problematic part of that statement, it's obviously the case for a couple of the girls interested. Alison and Catherine in particular, Hannah to an extent, and even Sarah's involvement eventually becomes somewhat hinged on his family. But do keep in mind that the core girls in the relationship got involved before the first mention of the term "founding families" in the game, and were largely oblivious to them as a whole.

 

[JMan9200]

Putting aside the, ahem, problematic part of that statement, it's obviously the case for a couple of the girls interested. Alison and Catherine in particular, Hannah to an extent, and even Sarah's involvement eventually becomes somewhat hinged on his family. But do keep in mind that the core girls in the relationship got involved before the first mention of the term "founding families" in the game, and were largely oblivious to them as a whole.

Yeah the non-FF girls couldn't care less about it. But even the FF born girls have all been playing the hardest to get too and while part of this is stemming from Cosy developing the beginnings of the relationships even more with them than he did the first two-three girls, it's also the fact that in the FF lifestyle they're used to, there would be none of this actual relationship development to begin with. It's all either arranged, expected, or extremely superficial.

Sure Catherine and Alison were initially interested and had expectations from the FF side of things, for MC's name alone not money since he's broke, but to actually be with the MC they now understand that won't fly with him like it would in typical FF circles and the only way to really be with the MC is if they choose him over their own families and by extension FF nonsense in general. The MC has made it clear that he doesn't actually have to do any of this and all his current girls would walk with him at the drop of a hat if he said so. He's only keeping at it to basically save the ones stuck in the FF life that he's grown to care about.

Plus, all the reasoning for all the FF girls involved has been nothing to do with actual wealth or power for themselves so much as it is for either another family member (i.e. Alison and Catherine trying to get better lives for her sisters) or someone like Sarah who hated the FF life in general and is now only involved to help the MC. Hannah is stuck in some honor bound situation, Elizabeth is doing this to piss off her mom, and Annabelle's reason has yet to really been fleshed out, but I can't imagine it's some selfish wealth/power seeking purpose.

We've already seen the gold digging types anyway like Sarah's sisters, or random student commentators at school, or Brian's side girl ilk.

 

[Pumpal]

Yeah the non-FF girls couldn't care less about it. But even the FF born girls have all been playing the hardest to get too and while part of this is stemming from Cosy developing the beginnings of the relationships even more with them than he did the first two-three girls, it's also the fact that in the FF lifestyle they're used to, there would be none of this actual relationship development to begin with. It's all either arranged, expected, or extremely superficial.

Sure Catherine and Alison were initially interested and had expectations from the FF side of things, for MC's name alone not money since he's broke, but to actually be with the MC they now understand that won't fly with him like it would in typical FF circles and the only way to really be with the MC is if they choose him over their own families and by extension FF nonsense in general. The MC has made it clear that he doesn't actually have to do any of this and all his current girls would walk with him at the drop of a hat if he said so. He's only keeping at it to basically save the ones stuck in the FF life that he's grown to care about.

Plus, all the reasoning for all the FF girls involved has been nothing to do with actual wealth or power for themselves so much as it is for either another family member (i.e. Alison and Catherine trying to get better lives for her sisters) or someone like Sarah who hated the FF life in general and is now only involved to help the MC. Hannah is stuck in some honor bound situation, Elizabeth is doing this to piss off her mom, and Annabelle's reason has yet to really been fleshed out, but I can't imagine it's some selfish wealth/power seeking purpose.

We've already seen the gold digging types anyway like Sarah's sisters, or random student commentators at school, or Brian's side girl ilk.

While Alison is absolutely doing this first and foremost for Hannah, she is also very much in it for wealth and power. She herself said she is ambitious and the opportunity to shape a FF is once in a lifetime. Catherine less so, bit she still wants a “kingdom” to be a “princess” of. Wealth and power are definitely a factor for those 2. Sarah is the only one that doesn’t care about wealth and power of those 3

 

[HiHaHo]

meanwhile mr takamura just vibing away in the kitchen during prep:

 

[PaxHadrian17]

This is something which I also had a problem with when I first played the game. That it feels way too effortless how MC gets the girls, since they are basically throwing themselves at him, but this is a problem a bunch of Harem-games have. In fact, Harem-games are usually effortless for the player, since the goal is to have a Harem, so choices usually boil down to "Do you want this woman in your Harem or not?" or "Do you want to fuck this LI or not?".
So in the end the player has to feel like they worked to get the LIs and this was missing at the start for me, since it was too easy to get Lucy, Vicky and Akatsuki. This is already a 3 person Harem, basically without much work you had to do. I think it would have made sense to have Lucy from the start and then only her for some time, before Vicky and Akatsuki join. Which is why I overall gave the game 4 stars back then.

...

I've played sandbox AVNs where I feel like I am doing rpg quests a dozen times just to get to the next level (ohhhh - that is a blue bra... - now, if I can do a slightly harder quest 20x, I can see panties...).

I see AVNs as a way for creators to tell their stories, but they do have to avoid certain pitfalls, among them:

* Make it too hard for the player to get immersed in the AVN
* Tell a story where the player feels like they are taking a geography/political science lesson and you are repeatedly reading walls of text
* Base the story on a foundation that is so contrived/confusing that the player can't keep track of 'Who's on First' (classic Abbott and Costello comedy routine worth looking up for those who do not get the reference or are non-native English speakers)

I could go on but my point is Cosy Creator does none of these.

He tells a story that has a plausible background (relative run out of town by powerful people and his grandson returns to claim his inheritance), interesting characters, school drama and larger problems (FF introduction and background through time), and lots of beautiful women who are not clones of each other.

Yes, the core of the harem builds quickly but, better that than, for example: compliment Victoria 30x in 30 days to get her to go on a date with MC.

I would consider a dev doing the above to be wasting my time and his energy.

I get that 3 women don't form the core of a harem being built by an 18-year-old student in less than 2 weeks, nor am I looking for a 'How to build your own Harem' self-help book in AVN form - this is not RL!

I'm here for a very good story involving an MC I like, beautiful women, some drama with other guys (who are losing ground rev by rev), and an enjoyable story including sexy time with the women where it fits the story.

Anyone coming to F95 to complain that part of a story is not close enough to RL for their taste is missing the boat.

When a friend asks you what you did since you saw him last (let's say 24 hours ago) - you don't tell him how many times you went to the bathroom for #1 and #2, nor do you tell him how many bites it took you to eat a sandwich for lunch -- you give him the highlights that make the last day memorable.

I see Cosy as doing the same - we are getting the highlights, and he chose not to stretch those highlights across a week/two weeks versus a day/two days.

IMO - this story is not diminished the way he is telling it.

Cheers!!

 

[BViking]

Not me hyping myself up thinking today was update day, because somehow I forgot that october has 31 days. Now I'm sad.

 

[GamerDaddy]

Not me hyping myself up thinking today was update day, because somehow I forgot that october has 31 days. Now I'm sad.

ya aint the onlyone lol

 

[hameleona]

Blah, wealth and power. What wealth and what power?
MC is barely making a profit from the restaurant and doesn't even have enough influence to deal with minor problems. And if doesn't get his ass in to gear, he is never gonna have either.

I think I've wrote about it already, but every girl in the harem is there, because they are desperately grasping at straws.
Lucy got her white knight.
Vicki got a stable home/family/commune.
Kitten got to be herself without peer pressure.
Sarah got to be seen as Sarah and not as "least-important daughter".
Hannah is there hoping she can have her cake and eat it too (both upholding family honor and not getting hitched to Brain).
Alison is there because, ultimately, she is the one who fucked her sister's life and the MC is her Hail Mary to fix that.
Misaki is there, because she is a wet noodle and really doesn't want to be 12 all her life.
Catherine is there, because she is ready to do anything if it means protecting her family (mostly her sisters) and the MC is her only chance of it happening.
Rachel will be there, because after her pathetic BSOD the gang is the only group in the world noble and/or stupid enough enough to give her a chance.

The only ones who aren't using the MC as a last straw a drowning man grasps for are Elizabeth (mommy issues), Akari and Annabelle. And I'm betting at least Annabelle will fit right in, she kinda gives those vibes. And we know almost nothing about the other two, besides what masks they wear.

 

[Juerhullycin]

I'm not even talking about the founding family stuff. I do think some of that is silly as well - for reasons I'll expound when I've reached them in my replay and they're fresher in my mind - but that's not really what I'm on about. I'm more referring to the fact that by his 11th day in town he's got a girlfriend who openly offers to let him date others, another girl practically begging to be slapped in chains, and a third sitting in his lap and licking his face. That's only mentioning the more sustained relationships he has, too, not things like fooling around with his teacher or flirting with the headmistress.

Skip forward about two weeks and the girlfriend count is up to four, with a half dozen other girls waiting in the wings - including aforementioned teacher and headmistress. Now, don't get me wrong, I understand the desire to go day by day for this part of the game and I think the progression of the girls has mostly been done pretty well so far, but I think we'd all agree that that's moving pretty fast. Hell, Cosy himself has mentioned that when talking about the newer girls like Hannah and Catherine. The game is certainly enjoyable, but I do think in-world pacing has been one of its big weak points.

It's definitely one of my bigger gripes with harem games as a whole, when they jump the gun in the harem part itself and every girl is just willing to join a one-sided open relationship from the jump. I'm glad that that slowed down for sure. The relationships mostly feel pretty natural - the biggest issue was Akatsuki, before the whole reveal thing - but the timing of them doesn't, at least for the first few. Maybe that's just me, but it's something I've thought since I started playing the game.

The girls live in a town where Polygyny is legal and practised. Brian hung out with 4 girls constantly before MC stole 2 ^^

They lived with the possibility of getting with a man, they have to share, their whole life. Not to speak about Lucy starting with severe confidence issues.

 

[Nezron]

I've played sandbox AVNs where I feel like I am doing rpg quests a dozen times just to get to the next level (ohhhh - that is a blue bra... - now, if I can do a slightly harder quest 20x, I can see panties...).

I see AVNs as a way for creators to tell their stories, but they do have to avoid certain pitfalls, among them:

* Make it too hard for the player to get immersed in the AVN
* Tell a story where the player feels like they are taking a geography/political science lesson and you are repeatedly reading walls of text
* Base the story on a foundation that is so contrived/confusing that the player can't keep track of 'Who's on First' (classic Abbott and Costello comedy routine worth looking up for those who do not get the reference or are non-native English speakers)

I could go on but my point is Cosy Creator does none of these.

He tells a story that has a plausible background (relative run out of town by powerful people and his grandson returns to claim his inheritance), interesting characters, school drama and larger problems (FF introduction and background through time), and lots of beautiful women who are not clones of each other.

Yes, the core of the harem builds quickly but, better that than, for example: compliment Victoria 30x in 30 days to get her to go on a date with MC.

I would consider a dev doing the above to be wasting my time and his energy.

I get that 3 women don't form the core of a harem being built by an 18-year-old student in less than 2 weeks, nor am I looking for a 'How to build your own Harem' self-help book in AVN form - this is not RL!

I'm here for a very good story involving an MC I like, beautiful women, some drama with other guys (who are losing ground rev by rev), and an enjoyable story including sexy time with the women where it fits the story.

Anyone coming to F95 to complain that part of a story is not close enough to RL for their taste is missing the boat.

When a friend asks you what you did since you saw him last (let's say 24 hours ago) - you don't tell him how many times you went to the bathroom for #1 and #2, nor do you tell him how many bites it took you to eat a sandwich for lunch -- you give him the highlights that make the last day memorable.

I see Cosy as doing the same - we are getting the highlights, and he chose not to stretch those highlights across a week/two weeks versus a day/two days.

IMO - this story is not diminished the way he is telling it.

Cheers!!

I agree.
the only way I see to give a more realistic time line would be some sort of quick montage of some time passing, MC goes to school, runs café, spends some time with Lucy (watching movies, going on walks, etc)

But other than it has only been a few days in the game, I guess you could just say Lucy fell in love right off the get go, because the MC was nice to her and showed interest in her. Something no other person has really done in her life. The he saves her... so yeah I can see Lucy being what she is.

You can just make up reasons the other girls are his as well..... or just do like I do and just enjoy the ride.

peace

 

[RoadWulf]

I think you're right if you're measuring against the real world, but I also think a certain amount of suspension of disbelief is necessary to make the genre work. Personally I don't think that the story experience would have been improved by significantly slowing the progression down. In fact, I think it would risk becoming tedious, as the main theme of the story is the whole found-family thing, and writing six months of regular daily life as they slowly grow into that, as would be realistic, wouldn't be a particularly interesting read.

Having said that, if I were to do it again I would certainly devote more time to going into more depth with Lucy and Vicky's early story - things like the Lucy mother arc I think could be much more impactful if I wrote them now.

Something to worry about during the remaster

 

[Thelazyweeb22]

Brothers, its gooning time

 

[221yeahh]

Brothers, its gooning time

View attachment 5391848

is it out?

 

[RoadWulf]

is it out?

Unless CC put it on his discord first, no. Patreon hasn't been updated yet.