VN Could someone explain the hate for sandbox games?

[Semak34]

In my experience, sandbox AVNs have been a letdown; most are just "click simulators," and constantly checking the questlog to figure out what to do kills any spontaneity and fun. Whether it’s "grindy" or not, the endless clicking and time-wasting drives me insane. (I don’t think it’s an inherent flaw of sandbox games, but rather a defect in how most AVNs handle the format...)
Another thing I can’t stand is how they’re supposed to offer "freedom," but the LIs are almost always interconnected, forcing you to slog through all their quests, like it or not.
And the worst part? The classic "you gotta wait until Wednesday afternoon to unlock X character’s quest"—that’s by far the most annoying

 

[DoubleDabbler]

In my experience, sandbox AVNs have been a letdown; most are just "click simulators," and constantly checking the questlog to figure out what to do kills any spontaneity and fun. Whether it’s "grindy" or not, the endless clicking and time-wasting drives me insane. (I don’t think it’s an inherent flaw of sandbox games, but rather a defect in how most AVNs handle the format...)
Another thing I can’t stand is how they’re supposed to offer "freedom," but the LIs are almost always interconnected, forcing you to slog through all their quests, like it or not.
And the worst part? The classic "you gotta wait until Wednesday afternoon to unlock X character’s quest"—that’s by far the most annoying

Yeah. I think that must be encapsulating a lot of the hate. I did come across that some where one girl's next phase is interdependent on a phase with a another girl. And questlogs don't feel that onerous to me I have had games where they are absent or ineffectual and those games truly suck.

 

[DoubleDabbler]

Is there a process for correcting tags? Developer (or whoever posts it) adds tags. Does anyone every check those? Or do they just add the tags for the thread above? I assume the ones above are somehow added by the community.

I've been surprised to find an element in a game based on the thread tags at the top of the page and then somebody directs me to the developer tags inside the spoiler that show it. The thread tags are double the number of developer tags but don't include the tag for the thing that is clearly present and was already included on the first post.

LOL. Yea, I never really thought about it too hard. Luckily, the first few games I played weren't kinetic novels so I learned what term meant here before ever trying one.

Tags are also so imprecise that you still get people asking what scenes/features are in the game that correlate to a specific tag. Really feels like a crapshoot sometimes.

Yeah, I've noticed in forums that sex wise, harem, loli and incest seem to continually come up go all the way across the board for meaning. Reading now, basically any fousome with 1 male counts as harem. I'm not into pedo and I played games not noticing and then pretty much ignoring the loli tag and never hard a character under 18. Then all the sudden I play Parental love and there is 12 year old LI. I don't even know how that is legal. Incest includes step and adopted and maybe in-laws. And I've scene complaints that be H sized breasts aren't big enough to warrant "big breasts" tag. Seems to beg "big" "huge" and "gargantuan" specifiers.

 

[MrD812]

So sandbox less good for minigames?

"While the concept may appeal to some, the "Mini'games" are not exactly ideal for this software ... at all."

 

[DoubleDabbler]

"While the concept may appeal to some, the "Mini'games" are not exactly ideal for this software ... at all."

So "yes" is the answer.

Asking for confirmation of this as a reason because it is the first I have seen it and I thought mini-games were one of the most universally hated things and would assumed the underlining reasons would be the same as for hating sandbox. Based on that it feels saying "I hate sand box because I want to do more mini games" is like saying "I hate filing because I want to do more data entry." Minigames working less well in sandbox notwithstanding, it seems like an unlikely reason to hate sandbox.

 

[MrD812]

So "yes" is the answer.

Asking for confirmation of this as a reason because it is the first I have seen it and I thought mini-games were one of the most universally hated things and would assumed the underlining reasons would be the same as for hating sandbox. Based on that it feels saying "I hate sand box because I want to do more mini games" is like saying "I hate filing because I want to do more data entry." Minigames working less well in sandbox notwithstanding, it seems like an unlikely reason to hate sandbox.

No.. Sandbox OR VN.

Mini-games don't belong ... "at all."

 

[DoubleDabbler]

Sure...I'd tend to agree. But I was asking why sandbox is hated.

In answer you posted a link saying sandbox wasn't good for minigames.

 

[peterppp]

Sure...I'd tend to agree. But I was asking why sandbox is hated.

In answer you posted a link saying sandbox wasn't good for minigames.

yeah but... that's the most intelligible answer i've ever seen from him.

 

[MissCougar]

I don't like AVN type sandbox games. They feel shoehorned in and kind of weird. And as someone mentioned it's more like a grind simulator at most points. For sex games you got to give 10 handjobs before you can give 10 blowjobs before you can give 10 boobjobs... etc.

Sandbox AVN is usually worse than the RPGM stuff, and navigation is a nightmare. Definitely not a fan, but I do like a well made RPGM or other sandbox type game. So go figure!

 

[allanl9020142]

Is there a process for correcting tags? Developer (or whoever posts it) adds tags. Does anyone every check those? Or do they just add the tags for the thread above? I assume the ones above are somehow added by the community.

I've been surprised to find an element in a game based on the thread tags at the top of the page and then somebody directs me to the developer tags inside the spoiler that show it. The thread tags are double the number of developer tags but don't include the tag for the thing that is clearly present and was already included on the first post.

I'm not entirely sure. I've seen a few times where people reply in a game's thread that a tag needs to be added but I'm not sure how effective that is when a lot of time has passed. I also don't know whether it's a mod that changes it or the one who uploaded the game in the first place.

But what I do know is that you'll have your question answered if you make a thread about it and start complaining about it while representing the opposite argument. Ex. "This site is so stupid! Why the hell isn't there a process to correct tags?!" People love being pricks. So you'll probably have your answer pretty quickly as well as 10 people disparaging you.

Spoiler: It's likely

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[MLocke]

The pacing is always wrong, and the impact is not apparent. So, the players hate being disappointed and sucked into the wrong thing. There's also a reason AAAA can't replace and can barely compete with Skyrim. Especially for indie devs, it's hard to understand the rules and guarantees that prevent pitfalls like the world feeling empty. The tooling is not obvious and freely available, so you are doing something like jumping into Unreal Engine without a framework nor the right set of plugins. All the while, some of the talent is just redirected into mods.

Also, many games are like tech demos. They showcase one thing well. Everyone is a specialist. It would probably be a smart idea to create a NSFW climbing game instead of a NSFW sandbox.

 

[DoubleDabbler]

I don't like AVN type sandbox games. They feel shoehorned in and kind of weird. And as someone mentioned it's more like a grind simulator at most points. For sex games you got to give 10 handjobs before you can give 10 blowjobs before you can give 10 boobjobs... etc.

Sandbox AVN is usually worse than the RPGM stuff, and navigation is a nightmare. Definitely not a fan, but I do like a well made RPGM or other sandbox type game. So go figure!

LOL. I hate grind in any type of game, myself. I guess I've just been lucky and haven't seen level of progression though handjob before blowjob before sex before anal is pretty standard. Definitely sandbox should have clear directions for progression or a walk-through. I've only played one that didn't and, yeah, really hated that. In my experience management is synonymous with grind and I usually just need to cheat on money to make that go away.

 

[DoubleDabbler]

I'm not entirely sure. I've seen a few times where people reply in a game's thread that a tag needs to be added but I'm not sure how effective that is when a lot of time has passed. I also don't know whether it's a mod that changes it or the one who uploaded the game in the first place.

But what I do know is that you'll have your question answered if you make a thread about it and start complaining about it while representing the opposite argument. Ex. "This site is so stupid! Why the hell isn't there a process to correct tags?!" People love being pricks. So you'll probably have your answer pretty quickly as well as 10 people disparaging you.

Spoiler: It's likely

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I've had the same confusion and experience. Weirdly tags from the original post are hidden under multiple spoiler tags when the thread tags are out at the top. And they never match 100%. Definitely should be addressed by somebody at some point but I don't even know if that is site admin, moderators or posters/devs responsibility.

 

[DoubleDabbler]

The pacing is always wrong, and the impact is not apparent. So, the players hate being disappointed and sucked into the wrong thing. There's also a reason AAAA can't replace and can barely compete with Skyrim. Especially for indie devs, it's hard to understand the rules and guarantees that prevent pitfalls like the world feeling empty. The tooling is not obvious and freely available, so you are doing something like jumping into Unreal Engine without a framework nor the right set of plugins. All the while, some of the talent is just redirected into mods.

Also, many games are like tech demos. They showcase one thing well. Everyone is a specialist. It would probably be a smart idea to create a NSFW climbing game instead of a NSFW sandbox.

A NSFW climbing game sounds hilarious.

I think I get what you are saying. By how they define sandbox I would think skyrim and skyrim has age old game breaks that they never fix because they are baked in or because they just don't want to even though it is a massive commercial company.

But for these games, as far as I can tell now after making this thread and checking back, sanbox in isolation generally means having a map with locations to click on. If there are adequate quest indicators and the quests don't suck these type seem to go off without any real drag or confusion in my experience. But perhaps that level of achievement is a similar relative level of difficulty for indie devs as bethesda creating an error free world.

 

[MLocke]

having a map with locations to click on

Paradise Lust is a decent case study, but the pacing still seems off. The remastered Oblivion was definitely still janky. Skyrim on the Switch is supposedly more bug-free somehow. It's fairly playable on PC even when heavily modded. I guess it's just always been janky in a strange way but so was Cyberpunk 2077 initially, and that game was not fully fleshed out as a world. I am not sure if Witcher 3 had as many problems. Skyrim is still the most recommended game every single year, or that's the meme anyways.

 

[Qahlz]

Is there a process for correcting tags? Developer (or whoever posts it) adds tags. Does anyone every check those? Or do they just add the tags for the thread above? I assume the ones above are somehow added by the community.

Yes, there is a process, from the Tags Rules And List [Updated 2024-11-14]:

Please report any thread with incorrect and/or missing tag(s).

So yeah, just report the OP with reason "Other", add some text on which tag is incorrect or missing and provide a reason for it, and it'll likely get fixed pretty quickly. Although do take care that you base that reasoning on the definition of the tag on this site (refer to linked thread for those definitions).

 

[DoubleDabbler]

Yes, there is a process, from the Tags Rules And List [Updated 2024-11-14]:


So yeah, just report the OP with reason "Other", add some text on which tag is incorrect or missing and provide a reason for it, and it'll likely get fixed pretty quickly. Although do take care that you base that reasoning on the definition of the tag on this site (refer to linked thread for those definitions).

Cool. I never even considered using the "report" cause i thought that was just for getting someone in trouble. Does that correct the thread tags at the top of page then?

 

[Qahlz]

Cool. I never even considered using the "report" cause i thought that was just for getting someone in trouble. Does that correct the thread tags at the top of page then?

Yes, if mods agree with your reasoning they'll add the tags to the thread.

 

[DoubleDabbler]

Paradise Lust is a decent case study, but the pacing still seems off. The remastered Oblivion was definitely still janky. Skyrim on the Switch is supposedly more bug-free somehow. It's fairly playable on PC even when heavily modded. I guess it's just always been janky in a strange way but so was Cyberpunk 2077 initially, and that game was not fully fleshed out as a world. I am not sure if Witcher 3 had as many problems. Skyrim is still the most recommended game every single year, or that's the meme anyways.

Just got into skyrim on switch 2 years ago. That is what specifically astounded to me as to their lack of bug fixes. Had multiple broken quests. Learned that these issues had been present for 10 years or more but they never fixed them even as they released updated, remastered and anniversary editions on new platforms. Had to change to computer and modding to make it playable as my switch was effectively unmoddable.

Paradise lust was too cartoony for me for these kind of games. I was thinking of girl house that I played recently. I cheated on the money. The plots were interconnected in a frustrating way with no good in game indicators. I had to use a walkthrough to have a clue and the walkthrough was a bit of a non-linear mess. Other than the completely broken Harem Camp that was the worst trouble I have had due to a game being sandbox style. I think I can imagine it would have been very grindy if I hadn't cheated on money.

 

[balitz Method]

It sounds like you mistook it as 'running games IN a sandbox', which is kind of adorable.

But yeah, sandbox games catch it because they're usually poorly structured. It's not a bad thing to have less of a point-A-to-point-B narrative or the ability to pick and choose what you want to pursue, but they're usually presented with a bunch of time-wasting grinds to get to the next thing rather than having a whole bunch of worthwhile things to do as a reward for exploration and experimentation.