Crypto as an aternative to patreon

[EnigmaXCipher]

For the past few days, I have been searching for a crypto alternative to Patreon or SubscribeStar.
My understanding of the restrictions on Patreon and SubscribeStar is that banks impose these limitations. If I create a cryptocurrency alternative, will it be useful for adult game devs?

 

[Hagatagar]

As long as it works with the tax authorities. Otherwise you are committing tax fraud and well... good luck with that.

 

[EnigmaXCipher]

I’m not going to be a middleman for holding onto any cryptocurrencies. The plan is to set up a smart contract that collects crypto donations every month and sends them straight to the developers' wallet. When the developers take the crypto out to cash it in, they'll need to handle their own taxes, which is on them.

 

[morphnet]

There is a lot more to it than that. Apart from the fact that there are those dissatisfied with the rules, there is a reason people still want to use patreon and risk getting banned. They have a solid platform and service and they have a reputation built up over years of providing their service. It's not just about getting cash from point A to point B.

There are a lot of other things to consider,

1) exchange rates
2) payment handling ( pausing - unpausing - payments not accepted etc.)
3) customer service
4) legality of transferring funds ( supporting devs where their games or content is illegal)
5) which cryptos will be accepted and which safe guards are in place if there are issues
6) dealing with fake devs / copycat accounts

and the list goes on....

It's also not the first time someone has floated this idea but it's just not a good or viable option.

 

[c3p0]

To add what morphnet already has written, no big platform exist (minus dark net ones) that have those features. So, a lot of people don't see the merit over Patreon, Subscribstar and co. for this.

I also see one/two more issues here:

• customer acceptance
• exchange rates - to pick that up - crypto currency is very volatile. How do you handle something that can change its value massive in a short time periode?

That is even more so for the devs. How would you handle that? Do you pay them out everytime a donate comes in or do you collect them? So, a dev may have 0.05 BTC in his account, he see that the BTC price has gained +15% and want them now. Or vice versa a devs seen that between someone donated $200 in crypto that price has been going down -40%. Who take over the loss of this $80?

 

[MarshmallowCasserole]

exchange rates - to pick that up - crypto currency is very volatile.

Well, at least this one problem is solvable, use USDT, or some such.

The problems morpnet listed remain, someone needs to create and maintain a service that rivals patreon's quality and userbase. I'm not seeing that happening any time sooon, honestly.

A simple solution is just to not break the law

 

[anne O'nymous]

If I create a cryptocurrency alternative, will it be useful for adult game devs?

When Patreon started its ban over incest, bestiality, none consensual sex, and underage content, a dozen project for an alternative platform were started. A this time, a bit more than 6 years later, none of them exist...

As others said, you need way more than just build a website for this kind of project. And if you decide to use crypto as sole currency, everyone, both patrons and creators will expect a fair price. Therefore you'll have to have price expressed in US $ (or whatever), ensure that the portion of BTC (or whatever) you'll take will correspond exactly to this sum at the instant you take it, and immediately transfer it to the creator wallet; possibly minus your own fees. And of course, you'll need to have enough credibility for people to trust you on this.

And, something that haven't been said yet, you also need to know a really good lawyer...
You want to create an platform that will serve as intermediary for financial transaction about material that is considered as illegal in a big part of the world, when it's not the transaction themselves that are illegal; there's countries when you can own [this or that] but not sell it or buy it.
It's obvious that soon or later the authorities will goes after you for complicity in a crime, and facilitating it. Like the transaction would probably never have existed without your platform, they would probably also add incentive to commit a crime to the list.

 

[c3p0]

Well, at least this one problem is solvable, use USDT, or some such.

That doesn't really help at all. Yes, you can accept them, but do people also use them? And if you only accept stable coins, you will ignore Bitcoin and Ethereum (and many others) who have a trade volume of 50 billions on the last 24 h - sure Thether has 75 billion. But still you're willing forfeit a big part of the crypto coin market.

Eg. the zone accept the follwoing coins for donation:
Bitcoin, Ethereum, USDT, Solana, Ripple, Monero, DogeCoin, Cardano, Litecoin, Stellar, Dash, Polkadot and Pepe.

And last but not least crypto is not anonymous. For most of them every transaction between two wallets is stored into the chain itself.

 

[MarshmallowCasserole]

That doesn't really help at all. Yes, you can accept them, but do people also use them? And if you only accept stable coins, you will ignore Bitcoin and Ethereum (and many others) who have a trade volume of 50 billions on the last 24 h - sure Thether has 75 billion. But still you're willing forfeit a big part of the crypto coin market.

That sure sounds like it does help at least somewhat And yes, no solution is without costs.

As for anonymity... Setting aside that some is anonymous, it sure is not any less anonymous than a Visa transaction. At least your wallet doesn't have to have your legal name stamped onto it.

 

[anne O'nymous]

As for anonymity... Setting aside that some is anonymous, it sure is not any less anonymous than a Visa transaction. At least your wallet doesn't have to have your legal name stamped onto it.

What works for the patrons, but is an obstacle for the creator.
Even if you only make US$ 1,000/month, it's 12,000 of your total income that have a totally unknown source. Soon or later the IRS (or equivalent in his country) will want to know more about this.
With Patreon, and in a lesser measure SubscribeStar, you're relatively safe even if making/selling porn is illegal in your country. It's what you earned through their sponsoring platform, and they have all kind of creator, not just porn ones. So, there's near to no risk that they investigate. Against 99% risk that they investigate if it come from an unknown source, or from a platform that exclusively rely on crypto.

 

[Squark ⚧❤️]

Let's not forget the volatility of the value of crypto. (I nearly typed cryptid, stupid alcohol.)
And the fact that one of the biggest crypto banks was slammed with fraud charges, resulting in the CEO having custodial time.

It's only a matter of time until even Monero can be tracked. And it will, don't delude yourself.

 

[MarshmallowCasserole]

Even if you only make US$ 1,000/month, it's 12,000 of your total income that have a totally unknown source. Soon or later the IRS (or equivalent in his country) will want to know more about this.

No, not really. Remember, crypto can be mined. If you get electricity from your personal wind mill then it's literally crypto out of thin air. Or you can just trade, and (theoretically) get money from volatility. Millions of people mine and/or trade coins and taxation offices become concerned when people get actual money, like USD. Then you have to pay taxes, yeah, income is taxed.

With Patreon, and in a lesser measure SubscribeStar, you're relatively safe even if making/selling porn is illegal in your country. It's what you earned through their sponsoring platform, and they have all kind of creator, not just porn ones. So, there's near to no risk that they investigate. Against 99% risk that they investigate if it come from an unknown source, or from a platform that exclusively rely on crypto.

Yes. If we assume this hypothetical CryptoPatreon takes off and becomes a big thing stuff that is predominantly illicit, then yes, getting money from that entity will raise huge red flags, because you're getting money from a known source with bad rep. That's what I meant by "rivals patreon's quality and userbase". It has to have a lot of legitimate content, and that's hard enough for a new platform to achieve.

 

[anne O'nymous]

No, not really. Remember, crypto can be mined.

Like c3po said, your history is stored in the blockchain. Therefore the IRS would have no difficulties to see that, no, you haven't mined it, and no, it's not the two BTC you bought in 2009.

[...] taxation offices become concerned when people get actual money, like USD.

And so what? You'll earn money in cryptocurrencies, and never spend it?

Either you turn them into Fiat currencies, and the IRS will, soon or later, notice the none justified increase in your income, and investigate it. Or you buy directly in crypto, and it's the fact that you live way above what your income permit that will trigger them.

 

[EnigmaXCipher]

To add what morphnet already has written, no big platform exist (minus dark net ones) that have those features. So, a lot of people don't see the merit over Patreon, Subscribstar and co. for this.

I also see one/two more issues here:

• customer acceptance
• exchange rates - to pick that up - crypto currency is very volatile. How do you handle something that can change its value massive in a short time periode?

View attachment 4563174

That is even more so for the devs. How would you handle that? Do you pay them out everytime a donate comes in or do you collect them? So, a dev may have 0.05 BTC in his account, he see that the BTC price has gained +15% and want them now. Or vice versa a devs seen that between someone donated $200 in crypto that price has been going down -40%. Who take over the loss of this $80?

The opt

To add what morphnet already has written, no big platform exist (minus dark net ones) that have those features. So, a lot of people don't see the merit over Patreon, Subscribstar and co. for this.

I also see one/two more issues here:

• customer acceptance
• exchange rates - to pick that up - crypto currency is very volatile. How do you handle something that can change its value massive in a short time periode?

View attachment 4563174

That is even more so for the devs. How would you handle that? Do you pay them out everytime a donate comes in or do you collect them? So, a dev may have 0.05 BTC in his account, he see that the BTC price has gained +15% and want them now. Or vice versa a devs seen that between someone donated $200 in crypto that price has been going down -40%. Who take over the loss of this $80?

we can use stable currency like USDC or USDT which is designed to stay at $1

 

[EnigmaXCipher]

When Patreon started its ban over incest, bestiality, none consensual sex, and underage content, a dozen project for an alternative platform were started. A this time, a bit more than 6 years later, none of them exist...

As others said, you need way more than just build a website for this kind of project. And if you decide to use crypto as sole currency, everyone, both patrons and creators will expect a fair price. Therefore you'll have to have price expressed in US $ (or whatever), ensure that the portion of BTC (or whatever) you'll take will correspond exactly to this sum at the instant you take it, and immediately transfer it to the creator wallet; possibly minus your own fees. And of course, you'll need to have enough credibility for people to trust you on this.

And, something that haven't been said yet, you also need to know a really good lawyer...
You want to create an platform that will serve as intermediary for financial transaction about material that is considered as illegal in a big part of the world, when it's not the transaction themselves that are illegal; there's countries when you can own [this or that] but not sell it or buy it.
It's obvious that soon or later the authorities will goes after you for complicity in a crime, and facilitating it. Like the transaction would probably never have existed without your platform, they would probably also add incentive to commit a crime to the list.

For the first part, we can go with a stablecoin like USDT or USDC.
As for the next part, I get what you’re saying, but I’m just looking for an easier solution.

 

[EnigmaXCipher]

That doesn't really help at all. Yes, you can accept them, but do people also use them? And if you only accept stable coins, you will ignore Bitcoin and Ethereum (and many others) who have a trade volume of 50 billions on the last 24 h - sure Thether has 75 billion. But still you're willing forfeit a big part of the crypto coin market.

Eg. the zone accept the follwoing coins for donation:
Bitcoin, Ethereum, USDT, Solana, Ripple, Monero, DogeCoin, Cardano, Litecoin, Stellar, Dash, Polkadot and Pepe.

And last but not least crypto is not anonymous. For most of them every transaction between two wallets is stored into the chain itself.

Yes, might look like a foolish move but It's risky to use a non stable crypto. So, no BTC, ETH ,LTC etc..

 

[EnigmaXCipher]

Let me explain how the website will function.

Developers will create an account on the site using their wallet address or easily integrable wallets like MetaMask. They will then create a tier list for their subscribers.

The site will generate smart contracts based on the tier list, which will be embedded within a downloadable website template. Developers can customize this template and host it as their user-facing site.

 

[tuvrelm11]

For the past few days, I have been searching for a crypto alternative to Patreon or SubscribeStar.
My understanding of the restrictions on Patreon and SubscribeStar is that banks impose these limitations. If I create a cryptocurrency alternative, will it be useful for adult game devs?

If you create a crypto, it will automatically assumed to be a rug pull scam. Rightfully so, because there's absolutely no good reason to not just use the already established and trusted cryptocurrencies.

 

[tuvrelm11]

Let me explain how the website will function.

Developers will create an account on the site using their wallet address or easily integrable wallets like MetaMask. They will then create a tier list for their subscribers.

The site will generate smart contracts based on the tier list, which will be embedded within a downloadable website template. Developers can customize this template and host it as their user-facing site.

Why even make a site? Can't devs just post their games here on f95 with links to their crypto wallets? Surely you're not looking to skim off the top, friend? That would be naughty.

And so what? You'll earn money in cryptocurrencies, and never spend it?

Either you turn them into Fiat currencies, and the IRS will, soon or later, notice the none justified increase in your income, and investigate it. Or you buy directly in crypto, and it's the fact that you live way above what your income permit that will trigger them.

I doubt IRS agents spend 24/7, monitoring every single citizens living conditions. Looking for that extra t-shirt and pack of beer every month. Games funded by crypto will probably at best make 1/100 of what they could be making on Patreon.

Unless a dev somehow makes it big, like $100k a month, and absolutely goes out of his way to show off his wealth to every passerby, I don't think this will be a problem. But you never know with how stupid some people get.

 

[Count Morado]

Can't devs just post their games here on f95 with links to their crypto wallets?

No.

And this is a pirate website. Yes, some developers use it as a marketing tool... But at the end of the day, F95 does not want to be a middleman for developer earnings... Even Linking crypto wallets.

Games funded by crypto will probably at best make 1/100 of what they could be making on Patreon.

So, $1 per month.

Unless a dev somehow makes it big, like $100k a month

no adult game developer on Patreon even makes that amount at this time. But I understand what you are saying.

More than half of all adult game developers with paid subscribers on Patreon earn <$100 USD per month... Even after 4+ years with a Patreon account.

< 20% earn better than $1000 USD per month.
< 5% earn $4000 USD per month.

The whole idea of going through the hassle of creating a crypto platform makes little sense for the vast majority of adult game developers... Even if they think it might matter. It won't. The only person who would make money are is the host who takes an admin fee and whomever handles the transfers with their handling fees.