Ren'Py Abandoned Dark Magic [v0.17.1] [F.Lord]

4.30 star(s) 106 Votes
Discussion Reviews (106)
Akabakka

Akabakka

Newbie
Jul 12, 2023
91
216
RDFozz said:
Lots of people can relate to the following: there's someone you intend to be in contact with. You get busy, and suddenly realize that you haven't been in touch for a long time. The weight of making contact again becomes that much bigger, and gets scary. You find it easier to put off than to do. Every time it pops back into your head, it becomes that much more important, and that much harder to do.

Also - if you've ever been really depressed, you know that the hardest thing to do is to talk yourself into doing things that could resolve your depression.

Neither may exactly correlate to why devs fall out of touch with their audience, but I do suspect they should inform the discussion.
Click to expand...
I get that , but there is a major difference here , those case of drifting apart don't involve money and any responsibility . At least usually .
I understand fear , anxiety and shame from having let things fester , and not keeping touch , and it snowballing . However this involves money . I can empathize to someone's struggle over this ... but there is a limit . Like the good Major said , somehow , there is no such hangs up about still taking the money , while being gone , for many devs in that situation . Again ultimately it is also and foremost a matter of respect for the people that did support them .
 
R

RDFozz

Active Member
Apr 1, 2022
800
1,079
Akabakka said:
I get that , but there is a major difference here , those case of drifting apart don't involve money and any responsibility . At least usually .
I understand fear , anxiety and shame from having let things fester , and not keeping touch , and it snowballing . However this involves money . I can empathize to someone's struggle over this ... but there is a limit . Like the good Major said , somehow , there is no such hangs up about still taking the money , while being gone , for many devs in that situation . Again ultimately it is also and foremost a matter of respect for the people that did support them .
Click to expand...
To clarify - given that this became a business relationship once they set up a Patreon account, none of that excuses their behavior.

However, I'm not sure how Patreon payments are handled. I can't say for sure that all devs in this sort of situation take in the money actively. If it auto transfers to an account, that requires no action to receive the money, but requires action to stop receiving it (and what I've laid out implies a paralysis that could prevent action). I believe that on itch.io, you have to log in and withdraw the money your project has earned; a dev truly paralyzed into inaction presumably wouldn't withdraw that money (although itch payments are a one-time thing, not an on-going financial relationship).

Turning off Patreon payments for a while would be appropriate in many if not all cases - but requires taking action, presuming including some sort of message to indicate that they aren't actively working on things now.

Note that subbing on Patreon is agreeing to send money to a person, not for a project. Many devs set up rewards for various support levelsb however, i dont necessarily believe Patreon requires them to make good on the rewards promised. I didn't see language like I saw when I participated on Kickstarter recently; they explicitly say that the various rewards promised for support are not Kickstarter's responsibility and aren't enforced by Kickstarter in any way. My assumption has always been that Patreon is operating on the same principles; you decide to give Joe Shmoe money, and he has no actual obligation to do squat about it.

Again - once the dev makes it a business relationship by setting up on Patreon, it is rude and unethical (in my opinion) to keep taking money if whatever you promised isn't being delivered. There's only one thing supporters can do about, and that's choosing to stop their support.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Crevanille
C

Crevanille

Member
Oct 27, 2021
280
238
RDFozz said:
To clarify - given that this became a business relationship once they set up a Patreon account, none of that excuses their behavior.

However, I'm not sure how Patreon payments are handled. I can't say for sure that all devs in this sort of situation take in the money actively. If it auto transfers to an account, that requires no action to receive the money, but requires action to stop receiving it (and what I've laid out implies a paralysis that could prevent action). I believe that on itch.io, you have to log in and withdraw the money your project has earned; a dev truly paralyzed into inaction presumably wouldn't withdraw that money (although itch payments are a one-time thing, not an on-going financial relationship).

Turning off Patreon payments for a while would be appropriate in many if not all cases - but requires taking action, presuming including some sort of message to indicate that they aren't actively working on things now.

Note that subbing on Patreon is agreeing to send money to a person, not for a project. Many devs set up rewards for various support levelsb however, i dont necessarily believe Patreon requires them to make good on the rewards promised. I didn't see language like I saw when I participated on Kickstarter recently; they explicitly say that the various rewards promised for support are not Kickstarter's responsibility and aren't enforced by Kickstarter in any way. My assumption has always been that Patreon is operating on the same principles; you decide to give Joe Shmoe money, and he has no actual obligation to do squat about it.

Again - once the dev makes it a business relationship by setting up on Patreon, it is rude and unethical (in my opinion) to keep taking money if whatever you promised isn't being delivered. There's only one thing supporters can do about, and that's choosing to stop their support.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Once you ask for money, even on a voluntary basis... you, as the dev, go from mere hobbyist to amateur/budding entrepreneur with their supporters being effectively their investors.

Now, even if they aren't legally beholden to fulfill their end of the bargain a la a contract to finish a project.. it still looks really bad from just a reputational standpoint that will, to anyone supporting the project, just come off as spitting in their face and to anyone supporting them monetarily? A scam or a total waste of time. No matter what you do short of a sincere apology and and effort to make it up to anyone you let down within the means at your disposal... excuses are just that, excuses... And I'm not defending that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RDFozz
Akabakka

Akabakka

Newbie
Jul 12, 2023
91
216
RDFozz said:
To clarify - given that this became a business relationship once they set up a Patreon account, none of that excuses their behavior.

However, I'm not sure how Patreon payments are handled. I can't say for sure that all devs in this sort of situation take in the money actively. If it auto transfers to an account, that requires no action to receive the money, but requires action to stop receiving it (and what I've laid out implies a paralysis that could prevent action). I believe that on itch.io, you have to log in and withdraw the money your project has earned; a dev truly paralyzed into inaction presumably wouldn't withdraw that money (although itch payments are a one-time thing, not an on-going financial relationship).

Turning off Patreon payments for a while would be appropriate in many if not all cases - but requires taking action, presuming including some sort of message to indicate that they aren't actively working on things now.

Note that subbing on Patreon is agreeing to send money to a person, not for a project. Many devs set up rewards for various support levelsb however, i dont necessarily believe Patreon requires them to make good on the rewards promised. I didn't see language like I saw when I participated on Kickstarter recently; they explicitly say that the various rewards promised for support are not Kickstarter's responsibility and aren't enforced by Kickstarter in any way. My assumption has always been that Patreon is operating on the same principles; you decide to give Joe Shmoe money, and he has no actual obligation to do squat about it.

Again - once the dev makes it a business relationship by setting up on Patreon, it is rude and unethical (in my opinion) to keep taking money if whatever you promised isn't being delivered. There's only one thing supporters can do about, and that's choosing to stop their support.
Click to expand...
I'm not disagreeing with a lot of your points , nor disputing how patronage works . My points were entirely on a moral viewpoint . While legal , it is scummy in my opinion to be gone for months without a word , then to be back and just say "oops i was depressed" (and i know i'm being reductive here) . It's not even specific to this game , but it's a behavior that is wayyyy too common, for already too many AVN crowdfunded titles , and just never ok . Sadly it's up to people to not let it run rampant and be commonplace
 
  • Like
Reactions: Motoko Kusanagi and RDFozz
G

gpsywolf

Member
Sep 30, 2019
144
530
Sad, this is one of my favorite games since forever. Was wondering what happened to it so i came in here to check on it and now IM depressed. I guess its whatever, I mean nothing i can do about it. Hope the dev gets "better" soon and picks up the project again, but time will tell.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Punto
Aninass

Aninass

Newbie
Aug 31, 2020
40
37
Has this really, been abandoned? The dev seems active. I really love this, one of my earliest AVNs. I hope he decides not to abandon it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
4.30 star(s) 106 Votes