- Thread starter Hitman955
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- Nov 14, 2017
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While growing tweens/teens can become physically able to have sex and even reach near to their adult physiology sooner rather than later, the issue is always one of consent. Laws against minors having sex with adults are not meant to ignore that such arrangements can sometimes work out without seriously damaging the minor in various ways, but instead recognize that the starting point is always one of a power imbalance. This is also, in part, the fundamental claim against incestuous relationships.
And, that is all that we should find relevant to discussions of DMD - there are no underage characters here.
But, the power imbalance aspect has been there all along and it's up to the players to decide how D has been manipulated (or not) and to what possible extent by the MC, her friends, etc. - plus, what might the effects of her ongoing relationship with the MC mean to her in the long term. Is she truly feeling a growing and equal love with the MC or is it one that is also from conditioning of loving her provider/parent (i.e., that power imbalance thing)?
I look at the story from the character's perspective, in their own universe as it's presented, first - then, I take a step back to see what I think it could mean in our world's terms.
Thus far, the sheltered D has been influenced by the MC and both were attracted to each other - sincerely - but for different reasons, I feel. By this point in the VN, revealing more of the dynamics within their relationship through Chapter 3 could also talk to how D's growing independence of thought, spirit and action could help to reveal just how much the MC manipulated her power-imbalance-imbued affection for him that we've only thus far been able to guess at. It may be that D realizes this has happened and can live with it by virtue of all their shared experiences eventually leading to a detente of mutual understanding and respect of where they end up by the end of the game ... or, it may be that some threads and questions remain open for us to consider what it might mean for their relationship and D's well-being post-DMD.
What I think about their dynamic and how it maps into our real world doesn't really matter too much in relation to their own story, because Donutistan, etc. is a different place with a unique culture that isn't our world. But, we could still wonder about what their fictional example might say about situations with shared aspects in our world as comparison/contrast, because the best fiction does make us question how it might inform aspects of our own lives, IMHO. It's rarely a direct line of relation, but movements of ideas and values are always fair game to consider and debate from the example of a provocative fictional tale.
And, that is all that we should find relevant to discussions of DMD - there are no underage characters here.
But, the power imbalance aspect has been there all along and it's up to the players to decide how D has been manipulated (or not) and to what possible extent by the MC, her friends, etc. - plus, what might the effects of her ongoing relationship with the MC mean to her in the long term. Is she truly feeling a growing and equal love with the MC or is it one that is also from conditioning of loving her provider/parent (i.e., that power imbalance thing)?
I look at the story from the character's perspective, in their own universe as it's presented, first - then, I take a step back to see what I think it could mean in our world's terms.
Thus far, the sheltered D has been influenced by the MC and both were attracted to each other - sincerely - but for different reasons, I feel. By this point in the VN, revealing more of the dynamics within their relationship through Chapter 3 could also talk to how D's growing independence of thought, spirit and action could help to reveal just how much the MC manipulated her power-imbalance-imbued affection for him that we've only thus far been able to guess at. It may be that D realizes this has happened and can live with it by virtue of all their shared experiences eventually leading to a detente of mutual understanding and respect of where they end up by the end of the game ... or, it may be that some threads and questions remain open for us to consider what it might mean for their relationship and D's well-being post-DMD.
What I think about their dynamic and how it maps into our real world doesn't really matter too much in relation to their own story, because Donutistan, etc. is a different place with a unique culture that isn't our world. But, we could still wonder about what their fictional example might say about situations with shared aspects in our world as comparison/contrast, because the best fiction does make us question how it might inform aspects of our own lives, IMHO. It's rarely a direct line of relation, but movements of ideas and values are always fair game to consider and debate from the example of a provocative fictional tale.
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Typically yeah, a father/daughter sexual relationship is problematic because of the power dynamic but remember, D didn't grow up with her father. They only just met after a very long absence and she doesn't remember him at all. She maybe feels a familial connection to him at first, but there's no history of a parental relationship and no particular power dynamic in place.
That's not to say that I would approve of that relationship in the real world, I think most of us would agree this game is a bit fucked up, but it is a pretty unique circumstance and it ties into some real world examples of this kind of thing actually happening. Parents and children who didn't grow up together entering into a sexual relationship later in life is kind of a common thing, oddly enough, to the point that I wonder if that in part inspired the story of the game.
- Apr 30, 2017
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Yay, I had a carefully considered (well., for me - which is probably nonsense for anyone else) post which intentionally downplayed the debate on legality to think about the power imbalance in DMD and what that might mean for the characters, etc. But, that got swept up in the Mod purge.
So, to summarize: I think that the power imbalance which is the elephant in DMD's room should be addressed in Chapter 3 somehow - i.e., despite their current trajectory, the maturation and experience gains of and by D should afford her the insight to question how much of her love for the MC was bilateral and how much may have been due to her idolizing a literal father figure. This could lead to an interesting "open" ending for DMD.
So, to summarize: I think that the power imbalance which is the elephant in DMD's room should be addressed in Chapter 3 somehow - i.e., despite their current trajectory, the maturation and experience gains of and by D should afford her the insight to question how much of her love for the MC was bilateral and how much may have been due to her idolizing a literal father figure. This could lead to an interesting "open" ending for DMD.
- Nov 11, 2017
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If there are rules here to minimize searchable terms or topics that could draw the wrong kind of attention, I can understand that.
- Jun 27, 2017
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Mah dudes, just take it to a private convo like the rest of us
- Apr 30, 2017
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Several of the VN renpy games i download have no audio. The menu shows audio volume options though. Other similar games the audio works great, others its very spotty, (works for some scenes not others). Is this normal?
- Mar 28, 2017
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Pretty big number of Ren'Py games have no audio at all,so it is normal.
- Mar 21, 2017
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The volume controls are part of the standard Ren'Py UI and aren't necessarily indicative of the VN having SFX/music. It's up to the dev to decide whether their game will have sound or not. Some don't, some do.
- Jan 9, 2018
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Yes, that's very common.
There are a few out there that have audio, but most do not.
- Dec 30, 2017
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Remember in Back to the Future when Marty McFly went back in time to the 1950's and met his mother? Didn't young her (mother) come on to him (son)? She raised him and he reflected much of her values taught to him as a child therefore when she met Marty with no context she was attracted to him.
That was kind of fucked up for Robert Zemeckis to include in the film.
Wonder if he was a $20 tier DMD patreon (pure speculation with no basis)?
Some interesting background reading RE: the fact that D and MC didn't spend her childhood together in a parental relationship.
You must be registered to see the links
That concept is by no means universally accepted in psychology, but it's at least interesting and relevant.
- Nov 11, 2017
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Yes, I actually referenced GSA some time back in this thread. It's not been studied well, so there's no solid idea on it's likelihood to occur, contributing factors (physiological, cultural), etc. in cases where children and their parents meet as adults after a long separation. But, it's fine for an adults-only VN, I figure.
And, it doesn't answer the point I raised, I feel: GSA applicability or not, there has still been a power imbalance since the first day of DMD. I realize this isn't meant to be a psychological study, but as D gains more experience and variety in her life she's naturally comprehending more of the world previously fed to her on a platter - both by her mother (very narrow) and her father (wider, but still mostly from his perspective). In a general sense, it's reasonable for her to not only surpass his anticipated scope in terms of her future outlook, but she may find herself revisiting the underpinnings of their relationship as part of her natural desire to learn more about herself and her options going forward. That could be very interesting.
I'm not sure there really is that much of a power imbalance though, it's there? She's grateful and excited to finally be meeting her father but I don't recall her ever really deferring to him as an authority figure. In fact I'd say there's less of a power dynamic here than there is between Melody and the NC in her game.
I think at most, the relationship with D and MC is similar to a landlord and tenant. She's reliant upon him for a place to live and that in and of itself creates a certain dynamic, but in not sure it goes much further than that