VN Others Completed Daughter for Dessert [Ch. 19] [Palmer/Love-Joint]

[lanternflux]

We listen to feedback, and we make changes where we agree. Is that good enough for you?

If I believed you didn't think everyone who disagreed you was an incorrect idiot! You delete negative comments and make sure to tell anyone with criticisms that they're wrong! But obviously you know that.

Assuming you read the post, you can see I've included screenshots from Chapters 15 & 16, so clearly I'm a supporter who can access your game. I liked DFD in the beginning a lot and it was the inspiration for me to get into the world of VNs in general, but it's gone so far off the rails that's it's barely the same game anymore. Success has gone to your head and influenced how you write and treat your fans.

Disappointing.

 

[TheKryptonian]

I hope this isn't what you call listening to feedback.

I appreciate your zeal in this matter but its clear for anyone paying attention Palmer couldnt give 2 shits about fans (paying or otherwise) he just keeps regurgitating the same passive aggressive replys. Its his way or the highway.

 

[Palmer]

I liked DFD in the beginning a lot and it was the inspiration for me to get into the world of VNs in general, but it's gone so far off the rails that's it's barely the same game anymore. Success has gone to your head and influenced how you write and treat your fans.

No probs bud, and hey; again, I hope you find something you actually like. Btw, the $20 story in December was done due to Patreon feedback asking for it. We listen and care a lot about what everyone says, including people that don't pay for the game. Otherwise, why would I be here? Have a good evening friend

Please PM me on Patreon and we can talk more about what you brought up, one point at a time, because it's stuff that will take me hours to explain overall and just flood this chat.

 

[lanternflux]

This chat is for discussion about your game, so by all means, flood it with information about your game. I know I'm not the only one with these questions and I'm sure others would love to see answers too outside of a private DM.

 

[Palmer]

This chat is for discussion about your game, so by all means, flood it with information about your game. I know I'm not the only one with these questions and I'm sure others would love to see answers too outside of a private DM.

So you don't want to message me on Patreon then? That would be a lot easier. You can compose all the answers into a document you then link here so the chat is not flooded. Because this chat is usually "How do I get the backup to this chapter?" etc. And there are more people than you having negative thoughts about Ch 14 that I want to listen to and see if we could have done anything better.

Also, since you've only commentated in this thread ever on F95 it makes for even more sense.

 

[JoeSte91]

Because this chat is usually "How do I get the backup to this chapter?" etc.

Pretty sure the last ten pages alone prove this thread is for more than just tech support.

 

[Palmer]

Pretty sure the last ten pages alone prove this thread is for more than just tech support.

Definitely

 

[fauxplayer]

@Palmer, we've communicated before going wayyyy back to ESA days. I admire that you've always been passionate about your games, stubbornly so. That passion does cause you to dig in your heels at times and over-react at other times. Those tendencies are part of what has made you successful, so I don't think you need to apologize for it. I imagine you find it kind of funny looking back on it now just how seriously you took things when Shark moved your content, seeing where you are now .

So that being said, you've tended to defend against people critical of Amanda (or Amanda's plot path) by falling back on her reaction and behavior as being "realistic for a girl that age." People will disagree about her sudden lack of trust in a man she's trusted her whole life, but I'll give you that point. Maybe in this case the realistic behavior results in her becoming less likable. Girls are crazy and unpredictable in real life all the time... maybe I don't want that in my porn game haha . Amanda can be perfectly authentic and less sympathetic at the same time.

I just went back and replayed chapters 12-16 to see if it made "more sense" in one sitting without the release delays between 14-15 and 15-16. It did actually, and like I said originally, I do have faith that your writing team has the talent to pull it off, even though I can't see a resolution that will make me forget that, right now, I don't like Amanda much anymore.

And that is the point here. Forget the debate over whether her behavior is authentic or realistic or believable or consistent with her personality. Just realize her behavior and choices in chapters 14-16 made a lot of players like me like her less. And that made me sad. That's all.

 

[asgardtipar2]

Well I accidentally deleted all my saves.. Great

 

[Zed | Love-Joint]

Well I accidentally deleted all my saves.. Great

If it’s the online version, use these if you don’t want to play through all again:

You must be registered to see the links

 

[greven119]

And yes we as the players bring our own hangups or "faults" with us wherever we go (this story included) and im guessing 99.9% of people have experienced a similar situation where your with someone and everything is going great and then bam, confusion/anger city hits you in the gut. Palmer and his team have struck this nerve in this stories fans and I think his team underestimated just how off-putting it is to some and maybe this will be a lesson for future projects to not push on this particular nerve to hard next time (if just for dramatic effect) because im sure they spent a fair amount of time plotting the build up of Amandas character but now there is 0% chance of redemption by most people playing.

That's actually not a bad thing. One of the strong points of writing is that you can kinda prey on the experiences of your audience to bring out the desired emotions in them. So if you're writing for teenage girls, you talk about the stuff that they might experience in school, with friends, etc. and then they can't help but have a gut reaction to it. But the problem here isn't that this was done, it's how it was done.

With something like this it's something that should evolve naturally over a few episodes. So for example aunt is introduced in episode 1 and she acts like a bitch. In episode 2 she comes back and tries a more carrot and stick approach that seems to convince Amanda to listen. In episode 3 Amanda is spending time with her and getting a bit standoffish at times but nothing huge. Episode 4 comes and Amanda is now acting more cold and distant. Not indifferent, like she's written here, but less prone to displays of affection and not interested in sex. Come episode 5 and she's pulling all the crap she's pulling in these episodes. It makes it seem like the aunt is slowly wearing her down and twisting her to believe in her BS. This is only made worse by the fact that it's either something she's making up 100% or we, as the audience, aren't being told what the problem is. So to us it looks like Amanda is 100% being a jackass for believing what the aunt is saying.

Amanda doesn't come off as "undecided" on the matter. She comes off as emotionally abusive. One day she's sunshine, sparkles and rainbows and doesn't want a thing to do with her aunt. Then the next day she's not coming home, she's not responding to texts, she's cold and indifferent in conversation and when you finally try to confront her on it you get a "if you don't know what you did then I'm not going to tell you." Then, when stuff feels really hopeless, they have pity sex with you before telling you it was a mistake and kicking you out, taking you from the high and crashing back to the ground.

This is actually pretty classic emotional abuse. Flip the tables and imagine a guy doing this to his girlfriend / wife and you'll see how destructive it is. There's a number of really drastic flags here. The disappearing for all hours of the day / night with no communication, trivializing or not caring about your feelings and an unwillingness to actually communicate the problem are classic abuse signs. I used to work with emotionally abused women and this shit sets off some insane red flags that immediately made me loathe the daughter.

 

[Palmer]

@Palmer
So that being said, you've tended to defend against people critical of Amanda (or Amanda's plot path) by falling back on her reaction and behavior as being "realistic for a girl that age." People will disagree about her sudden lack of trust in a man she's trusted her whole life, but I'll give you that point. Maybe in this case the realistic behavior results in her becoming less likable. Girls are crazy and unpredictable in real life all the time... maybe I don't want that in my porn game haha . Amanda can be perfectly authentic and less sympathetic at the same time.

I just went back and replayed chapters 12-16 to see if it made "more sense" in one sitting without the release delays between 14-15 and 15-16. It did actually, and like I said originally, I do have faith that your writing team has the talent to pull it off, even though I can't see a resolution that will make me forget that, right now, I don't like Amanda much anymore.

And that is the point here. Forget the debate over whether her behavior is authentic or realistic or believable or consistent with her personality. Just realize her behavior and choices in chapters 14-16 made a lot of players like me like her less. And that made me sad. That's all.

It's not that I'm here defending what we made. If I come of us as sounding like that; my intent is actually to listen to what other people think and why, and reply the way we thought about it when doing it, and what our thought process was like. It's taking in feedback, try to understand other people's thoughts of views, and make better games. But yeah, stuff like that is not always clear when you write posts on a forum

Have a good evening bud!

 

[alerion83]

I switched from Amanda to Heidi now ^^

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[fauxplayer]

It's not that I'm here defending what we made. If I come of us as sounding like that; my intent is actually to listen to what other people think and why, and reply the way we thought about it when doing it, and what our thought process was like.

I should have clarified I was referring more to replies you've posted on Patreon than posts you've made here. And I'll be very interested to read anything you want to post about your team's thought process both in coming up with Amanda's "turn" and also after the players' reactions to it, but that should wait until the entire story is complete I imagine .

My last words on this topic will be: I'm still very eagerly waiting for Chapter 17!

 

[TheKryptonian]

I switched from Amanda to Heidi now ^^

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Yet again they will just say it was justified how she acted. Its ridiculous and the longer he plays this game of denying it was just a dumb decision the more anger fans will feel.

Like seriously just make a post saying after receiving loads of negative feedback we may have played up this Amanda goes cold storyline too far and too long and we understand her reasoning is lackluster, we will try to avoid this misstep in the future. Me and others would be happy with just a little acknowledgement that we might know wtf were talking instead of continually saying "your doing it wrong". Just bad business.

 

[Josh M Spicer]

Me and others would be happy with just a little acknowledgement that we might know wtf were talking instead of continually saying "your doing it wrong". Just bad business.

Not even "your doing it wrong", just that they're listening and that they take it into account.

 

[PPE2RedDucks]

I switched from Amanda to Heidi now ^^

Whatever else - and I'm a bit surprised FWIW at the vehemence on here, but what would I know? - GOOD CHOICE.

Only ... TOOK YOU LONG ENOUGH! Kathy is great, but Heidi is a wonder. They all have issues, who hasn't, but those are the two stars of the saga ... in ascending order ...

 

[BadWolf71]

I don't know if it's been covered or not, but it seems like my Online backup saves are not working correctly. I'm playing the online version and going between Ch 11 to 12 has everything wrong. My choices, the name of the diner. It's wrong. Anyone know what could be the cause of it?

 

[anna_subCD]

Am I alone in feeling like Kathy is way more interesting than Amanda?

 

[Kromo]

Am I alone in feeling like Kathy is way more interesting than Amanda?

Team Kathy represent