[Daz] & [Blender] animation and system requirements. Building a PC specifically for animation

[Vanaduke]

Hi. I wish to animate my comics I've made years back and see them come to life but I'm completely new to animation. Am trying to build a PC that would hopefully enable me to create a 15-20 min video, someday. However, I am ignorant of the specs required to optimize such objective.

Caution: I have no notion about computer specs. Your advice would be much appreciated.

1. Processor: Ryzen 7 5700G. I'm planning to purchase this. Skimming through the internet, this is said to be better than Intel Core i7. Much more power efficient and pars with processing but the threads I've read about the quality difference is for gaming but am aiming for animation, not gaming. Plus, its much more affordable.

2. Motherboard: A520M-K-V2. No notion whether this would suffice nor whether it would affect animation. I managed to canvas a MSI B550M Pro which I can afford but would the former manage a good, say 10-15 min blender video?

3. SSD: 512 GB OCPC. Would this be sufficient or do I have to procure a 1 TB memory instead?

4. AVR. Secure 500W. Would animation require a better power supply or would this be enough?

5.RAM. Kingston Fury 16GBx2. They say a CPU can hold 4 slots of RAM. Best 8/8/8/8 or 16/16 for starters then upgrade to 32/32-64/64 someday?

6. GPU: RTX 4060 is a little expensive for me but I can afford a MSI RTX 3050 8 cores.

7. OS. Straight to Windows 11 Home, yes? Skip 10?

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These are samples of the images from the comics I rendered years ago using Intel 4 core. Is it possible to migrate the model I used (Asha by Anagord) from Daz to Blender and animate on Blender?

2017 sample (You can click on my signature as well, the links routes you to my comics)



2020 sample



I really do need your help guys. Thanks.

 

[osanaiko]

A "sufficient" rig to do effective blender or daz3d animation work at the quality level you show in those screenshots would be:

* CPU does not make much difference. Ryzen 5 midrange is fine.
* motherboard does not make any difference.
* use the 500gb SSD (surely you mean a M.2?) for the OS.
* add at least an additional 1TB separate drive of storage for the 1000s of daz assets you will download and never use
* 4060 is only 8G VRAM. RTX3060 with 12GB VRAM would be a much better choice for GPU. VRAM is more important than CUDA cores. Don't buy anything with less than ~12GB VRAM, or you'll curse yourself in a few months time. A used 1080ti with 11GB would be better than a 3050 and probably a similar price.
* 32gb minimum, maybe 64gb system memory, especially for blender.
* 500w PSU would be ~okay~ but not give you any headroom for upgrades. 650-750W would be better. more than that would be wasted unless you get crazy like a 4090/5090.

also:

* buy a clone of yourself so you can send it to your workplace / have it interact with family, while you spend 14 hours a day in a dark room learning how to do animation.

 

[60Points]

As for the processor, I would not go for the "G" series, those are the ones that have integrated graphics that in your case you would not need since you are going to have a dedicated GPU. And precisely this series reduces processor power to accommodate the graphic part

See if you get some 5700x (5600x is not bad at all).

Regarding the dedicated GPU, in Blender (as well as in Daz I suppose) the most important thing is the amount of vram, so if you are on a tight budget I think the best idea would be a 3060 12GB

Motherboard is another point to take into account, the one you mention is PCI 3.0, the RTX support 4.0 so although you would have no problems, you would not be getting the most out of it. See if you can't find a b550 pci 4.0 at a good price.

Ram, 2x16 is practically the same as 4x8, keep in mind that if you want the best results they have to all be identical. If possible, bought at the same time so that they are twins and then not have to go looking for the same ones to add.


You will be short on a 512GB SSD in a short time (as you save projects). If you have a tight budget, you can go for a 1TB SATA SSD or even add a mechanic to throw away the old files.


I am not dedicated to animations in Blender, but I am dedicated to PC hardware (RMA). Nowadays there are much better components than that, but I try to give you ideas that are not far from the ones you posted.

Greetings!

 

[anne O'nymous]

* CPU does not make much difference. Ryzen 5 midrange is fine.

I'm less categorical on this. All depend on what he want to animate, and how he want to animate it.

DForce rely on the CPU, so if he rely on Blender to animate the skeleton, then return to Daz to benefit from the DForce clothes/hairs, the more powerful the CPU will be, the faster it will be since each frame will have to be simulated.
He talk about at 15-20 minutes video, it's a fucking tons of frames. If each have to be simulated the difference easily count in hours.

* 500w PSU would be ~okay~ but not give you any headroom for upgrades. 650-750W would be better. more than that would be wasted unless you get crazy like a 4090/5090.

No, 500w is too low for a rizen + series 40. Both will works at the speed permitted by the power supplied to them. What mean that the computer will works even with a 500w, but not give its maximal potential. The price difference isn't really important, so starting with a 850w would probably be better.

* buy a clone of yourself so you can send it to your workplace / have it interact with family, while you spend 14 hours a day in a dark room learning how to do animation.

^^ This

Regarding the dedicated GPU, in Blender (as well as in Daz I suppose) the most important thing is the amount of vram, so if you are on a tight budget I think the best idea would be a 3060 12GB

For Daz Studio the number of cuda make a fucking big difference. Moving from a series 20x to a series 40x at equivalent level can easily speed the render time by five or more.
But I agree that the size of the VRAM also matter, especially since Daz Studio will fallback on CPU rendering if the scene do not fit in the VRAM.
What mean that, once again, everything depend on how he plane to do it.

 

[n00bi]

* CPU does not make much difference. Ryzen 5 midrange is fine.
* motherboard does not make any difference.

But it does matter what cpu you use. as a lot of simulation and other things happen on the cpu. "depends on the software and simulation type"
And it does matter what motherboard you have,
If a motherboard supports quad-channel, its best to populate all the slots to get benefit from the higher memory bandwidth.
altho. these are mostly found in servers and seriouse workstations.

 

[Vanaduke]

Thanks for the info, guys. I'll weigh and consider your advice. Might need to upgrade piece by piece, can't afford a full build as I have bills to pay.

I dream big however, aiming to render similar quality such as Doberman's and Jackerman's but that is a long way down the road. Are they using Blender?

I'm not familiar with the quality of Daz animations. Anyone can give me an example of optimum carnal animations? I have to start somewhere.

 

[n00bi]

Thanks for the info, guys. I'll weigh and consider your advice. Might need to upgrade piece by piece, can't afford a full build as I have bills to pay.

I feel your pain.. i am doing the same. just got more memory and a new monitor.
now i am waiting for the prices for nvidia cards to drop.. hopefully they will after the new year as they are releasing the next gen of their cards.

I dream big however, ....

No idea. But keep on dreaming big and don't give up on your dreams.
If i where you i would not mess too much with Daz to begin with.
But instead focus on learning Blender as its a more powerful tool to use.
"If you are really interested in 3D that is"
I find Daz to be great for quick and easy character creation. but i dont use the tool for anything else.
Export the character and do the rest in other 3D tools. in my case C4D.

Also Blender, C4d Etc supports good render engines. as octane, redshift etc.
So you can really get to use thous cuda&rt cores to render
i don't think Daz do support these render engines. correct me if i am wrong tho.

 

[Vanaduke]

So, uh, guys. I spent around $600. All I lack is a 12GB Graphics card which is another $600 per store recommendation. I however managed to canvas around $300 which I still can't afford as of the moment. Better save up.

Got only a 2GB built in AMD Radeon Graphics card. Can I animate simple animations using DAZ with this? I can't conjure another $300 that easily.

 

[60Points]

So, uh, guys. I spent around $600. All I lack is a 12GB Graphics card which is another $600 per store recommendation. I however managed to canvas around $300 which I still can't afford as of the moment. Better save up.

Got only a 2GB built in AMD Radeon Graphics card. Can I animate simple animations using DAZ with this? I can't conjure another $300 that easily.

The problem more than anything is the rendering, animating itself is not going to need much graphics. But you are going to have to control the amount of polygons of your characters (In eevee), cycles (raytracing) will kill you.

Eevee for me is excellent, you can achieve super attractive renders and not need much machine.


And there is always the option of buying a used graphics card, giving it a good service and solving the problem.

(I have a 6700xt 12gb used for mining, and it works wonderfully, but I did its corresponding thermal pad and paste service)

 

[osanaiko]

Sadly, AMD GPU (onboard or separate component) is not supported for DAZ IRay rendering. There is no point getting AMD GPU for DAZ.

Because you really have such strong budget limitation, there are two roads:
- wait until you somehow can find a 3060 12gb card at a price you can afford
- look for something used, older generation NVidia with at least *some* memory, so you can get started. examples might be a 2060 6gb, or a 1070 8gb. both of those *retailed* at less than $400MSRP, so you should be able to get a good deal. Then later in the future you can upgrade.

It is absolutely possible to use DAZ with older figures like Genesis3, and still get reasonable result.

You should expect to take several months to become skilled at animation anyway. You may as well start learning with a lowend GPU, even if high quality output takes a long time to render.

 

[Vanaduke]

The problem more than anything is the rendering, animating itself is not going to need much graphics. But you are going to have to control the amount of polygons of your characters (In eevee), cycles (raytracing) will kill you.

Eevee for me is excellent, you can achieve super attractive renders and not need much machine.


And there is always the option of buying a used graphics card, giving it a good service and solving the problem.

(I have a 6700xt 12gb used for mining, and it works wonderfully, but I did its corresponding thermal pad and paste service)

Few hundred dollars is too expensive too risk and I afear might end up discarding. I can rummage around online retail or facebook trade but the risk is too great. I got nothing to fall back into. At best, I haven't exactly attempted any acquisition outside of store-brought items. Can they be trusted?

Sadly, AMD GPU (onboard or separate component) is not supported for DAZ IRay rendering. There is no point getting AMD GPU for DAZ.

Because you really have such strong budget limitation, there are two roads:
- wait until you somehow can find a 3060 12gb card at a price you can afford
- look for something used, older generation NVidia with at least *some* memory, so you can get started. examples might be a 2060 6gb, or a 1070 8gb. both of those *retailed* at less than $400MSRP, so you should be able to get a good deal. Then later in the future you can upgrade.

It is absolutely possible to use DAZ with older figures like Genesis3, and still get reasonable result.

You should expect to take several months to become skilled at animation anyway. You may as well start learning with a lowend GPU, even if high quality output takes a long time to render.

I can still, I hope so, render iRay images, yes? Because I did when I was using Intel i4 with Intel graphics. With my current setup and graphics, I reckon I'm stuck with 3delights?

 

[osanaiko]

I can still, I hope so, render iRay images, yes? Because I did when I was using Intel i4 with Intel graphics. With my current setup and graphics, I reckon I'm stuck with 3delights?

Yes, Iray works on CPU rendering as well as Nvidia GPU. It does not use AMD gpu at all.

However, iray CPU render is something like 30 times slower than a midrange GPU. Check this daz forum thread for comparisons:

You must be registered to see the links

 

[anne O'nymous]

I can still, I hope so, render iRay images, yes?

You can, but Daz Studio will only use the CPU for this.

As someone who regularly forget to update the drivers when he update Daz Studio, I can tell you that rendering with a 8 cores CPU at 3.8GHz is around 10 times longer than with a series 20x GPU. And during this time the CPU will be stuck between 80% and 100% load. The more cores the CPU will have, the less time it will need, but with an average (in size and quality) render needing between 5 and 10 minutes with a series 20x GPU, expect around 20 minutes by renders to be the minimal with a 16 cores CPU.
And if your render include meshes with sub level activated, bump and/or normal maps, plus realistic shaders, what a series 30x GPU would render in 10 minutes could easily need more than one hour with the CPU only.

The problem with Daz Studio is that the IRay engine give good rendering, but they never really cared to optimize the code*, fully counting on NVidia GPU to speed up all the computations. Therefore when falling back on CPU, it's way slower than most ray tracing engines.



*: In fact, when you look at the log file, you can see that they don't even cared to solve the warnings, and sometime errors, generated by their code.


Edit: Well, apparently my perception of time is messed and I was optimistic when saying that the CPU is only 10 time slower. Thanks osanaiko for the link.

 

[Vanaduke]

Yes, Iray works on CPU rendering as well as Nvidia GPU. It does not use AMD gpu at all.

However, iray CPU render is something like 30 times slower than a midrange GPU. Check this daz forum thread for comparisons:

You must be registered to see the links

You can, but Daz Studio will only use the CPU for this.

As someone who regularly forget to update the drivers when he update Daz Studio, I can tell you that rendering with a 8 cores CPU at 3.8GHz is around 10 times longer than with a series 20x GPU. And during this time the CPU will be stuck between 80% and 100% load. The more cores the CPU will have, the less time it will need, but with an average (in size and quality) render needing between 5 and 10 minutes with a series 20x GPU, expect around 20 minutes by renders to be the minimal with a 16 cores CPU.
And if your render include meshes with sub level activated, bump and/or normal maps, plus realistic shaders, what a series 30x GPU would render in 10 minutes could easily need more than one hour with the CPU only.

The problem with Daz Studio is that the IRay engine give good rendering, but they never really cared to optimize the code*, fully counting on NVidia GPU to speed up all the computations. Therefore when falling back on CPU, it's way slower than most ray tracing engines.



*: In fact, when you look at the log file, you can see that they don't even cared to solve the warnings, and sometime errors, generated by their code.


Edit: Well, apparently my perception of time is messed and I was optimistic when saying that the CPU is only 10 time slower. Thanks osanaiko for the link.

I'm still new at this. I purchased around $175 AMD Ryzen 7 5700G with Radeon Graphics, 3.80 GHz. This is the CPU, yes? Would it work with iRay image renders? Can it do basic animations with Daz or hopefully Blender without graphics card as of the moment.

 

[osanaiko]

Yes, you can use the CPU-integrated AMD Radeon GPU for Blender render acceleration. It will work faster than CPU rendering but not very fast compared to a dedicated GPU Card (integrated GPU is generally quite weak).

No, you can't use CPU-integrated Radeon GPU for for DAZ IRAY, it simply does not support AMD Radeon - because Iray is a Nvidia product.

Note 1: you can still LEARN daz *animation* skills with 3Delight render engine. It just will not look very good by modern standards.

Note 2: in case you were not aware, Daz animation tools are infuriatingly poor compared to other, better 3d tools, including Blender. AFAIK, many games that include 3d "daz" renders actually export the DAZ characters and clothing to Blender and work there instead.

 

[Vanaduke]

Yes, you can use the CPU-integrated AMD Radeon GPU for Blender render acceleration. It will work faster than CPU rendering but not very fast compared to a dedicated GPU Card (integrated GPU is generally quite weak).

No, you can't use CPU-integrated Radeon GPU for for DAZ IRAY, it simply does not support AMD Radeon - because Iray is a Nvidia product.

Note 1: you can still LEARN daz *animation* skills with 3Delight render engine. It just will not look very good by modern standards.

Note 2: in case you were not aware, Daz animation tools are infuriatingly poor compared to other, better 3d tools, including Blender. AFAIK, many games that include 3d "daz" renders actually export the DAZ characters and clothing to Blender and work there instead.

Question. Big mistake on my part not reviewing the compatibility between Daz and AMD Radeon. Would Blender have restrictions on a specific rig like Daz does to non-Nvidia rigs? I hope not.

 

[osanaiko]

Question. Big mistake on my part not reviewing the compatibility between Daz and AMD Radeon. Would Blender have restrictions on a specific rig like Daz does to non-Nvidia rigs? I hope not.

C'mon man, are you trolling?

I said that it works, literally in the first sentence of my post that you just quoted.

 

[Vanaduke]

C'mon man, are you trolling?

I said that it works, literally in the first sentence of my post that you just quoted.

Apologies. Missed that part. Am skimming multiple threads online causing often reading without absorbing.

I may have encountered a technical dilemma unrelated to rendering. Monitor has no signal after a day of use of downloading drivers. Tried replugging the cables to no use. I dared not to touch the memory sticks.

Discord is of no help sadly. I'm being ignored but good folk of F95 I find most helpful.

 

[n00bi]

... Would Blender have restrictions on a specific rig like Daz does to non-Nvidia rigs?

99.9% of the rendering tools only supports Nvidia's Gpu, more in specific. the cuda & rt tech nvidia has.
So yea. There are restrictions, you are limited to cpu rendering,
And your task manager will look like this while hogging down the entire system

You really dont want to rush buying just any card.
Without Nvidia its like riding a half dead Donkey.

Btw. i just spent $1000 ordering a new 4070 Ti Super.

No idea about your monitor issue tho.

 

[osanaiko]

Regard the monitor issue:

1. assume the most basic issue first
- unplug cables, triple check you have them all in the right place and fully inserted

2. is it HW?
- try monitor with a different computer to rule out HW borkedness

3. Oops it was the drivers
- reboot into windows safe mode
- do a system checkpoint rollback to before the driver install that broke everything.