Daz DAZ / Cost / How?

[coffeeaddicted]

Ever since i discovered DAZ, i wondered how you can even start making or better, releasing a game.
The cost is just the biggest barrier from doing so.
I know, some probably just use an asset or maybe not but that makes me question if this is actually realistic.
DAZ can be really addicting. You have all these nice figures and you play with them. You download some asset here and there but to buy all the assets to be legally ok, is something different entirely.
So i am actually struggling with that.
In some other discussion we tried to put the finger on how much a dev probably would need to spend and it was quite a large figure.
I am not make out of money, so this seems like a dream.

So how do you do? I mean, do you or not? I am having really moral doubts, as much as i like most of it but i don't want to destroy my life because of, hey did you even pay for my asset? question.
It isn't that i would actually develop some awesome game, a large game but i could imagine to make a short. Something like an hour. I just never could convince myself to buy all the assets that i am using. So i relay more on free assets, but this is really limited to poses. Everything else has a dollar amount to it. And yes, i buy sometimes here and there what i like.

I really wish to have an honest discussion about because i think there isn't really one.

Thanks

p.s. tips are really appreciated.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Ever since i discovered DAZ, i wondered how you can even start making or better, releasing a game.
The cost is just the biggest barrier from doing so.
I know, some probably just use an asset or maybe not but that makes me question if this is actually realistic.

It's the reason why there's so many games "restarted", and so many games abandoned; in what category will be the game depend on the support it received. As well as the reason why so many games look like any other ones, with the same cheap assets used out of the box (without shaders or morphs applied to them in order to make them more unique).

I really wish to have an honest discussion about because i think there isn't really one.

It's something that will probably not happen, and you'll never be sure about the truth. Not because devs are not honest, but because anyone who would say, "oh, I use some pirated assets for my game", would see their post labeled "proof number 1" in the law suit that Daz Studio, and possibly others assets creators would start against them.


Now, let's be honest, there's two kind of assets. On one hand you've those that come with meshes or textures, that ones are expensive and strongly identifiable. And on the other hand you've things like poses packs, light settings, camera settings, and the texture less shaders, that just change a value here and there... Proving that you used one of the later is, well, far to be easy.
Not that I advice to pirate them, but a creator that would really struggle to find the money to fund his starting game can possibly use pirated version at first, then use the money he earned with his game to buy them later.

 

[coffeeaddicted]

It's the reason why there's so many games "restarted", and so many games abandoned; in what category will be the game depend on the support it received. As well as the reason why so many games look like any other ones, with the same cheap assets used out of the box (without shaders or morphs applied to them in order to make them more unique).




It's something that will probably not happen, and you'll never be sure about the truth. Not because devs are not honest, but because anyone who would say, "oh, I use some pirated assets for my game", would see their post labeled "proof number 1" in the law suit that Daz Studio, and possibly others assets creators would start against them.


Now, let's be honest, there's two kind of assets. On one hand you've those that come with meshes or textures, that ones are expensive and strongly identifiable. And on the other hand you've things like poses packs, light settings, camera settings, and the texture less shaders, that just change a value here and there... Proving that you used one of the later is, well, far to be easy.
Not that I advice to pirate them, but a creator that would really struggle to find the money to fund his starting game can possibly use pirated version at first, then use the money he earned with his game to buy them later.

Kind of have to admit that, even with something small, i would still spend a good amount of money for something virtual.
My hobby is to delete and try with less asset so i know what i would actually use.
There is this temptation to either a) just use few asset or b) a lot.
Just for a scene.
My gfx card isn't really meant to render but it's good enough (with patients).
So i usually look for something easy, like an apartment asset. Besides, that i never get what i actually want and i am not able to create it myself, i have to buy an asset.
But the spending comes from the figures itself.
DAZ originals look amazing but the cost is just very high. So i relay on 3th party figures that i actually can afford.

The question i was asking myself is, what do i really want. Show off with graphics or story.
So i aim for something more reasonable. Less A+ graphics but substance.

I hate to admit it but you were right. It can bankrupt you like GTA 5 when you buy assets. It goes easily in the thousands. So i am using only a very few expressions and poses. Poses mostly free versions like from IT Roy, which are great btw.
Clothing is a must to buy.

Yes, well it maybe true. Though aren't we all anonymously on the board anyway?

Shaders are really important. For me mostly with clothing. Lighting i really do with free stuff i downloaded from DeviantArt and here. There are many free things available. So this lowers the cost really a lot.
It helps if you know your way around with DAZ or graphics in general. I am not really good at it. Though i think i can make a nice scene.

I think i really like the environment from Room2Rent (not sure about the title) it has assets that are actually real in the sense as to where people actually are living vs. dream apartments and home on the DAZ store.
In general i think it really helps to be able to create your own assets. Because it will reflect what you really want to show.

Oh, and then the sex parts. This is what raises your cost again somewhat.
I figure that most of them are actually useless, so i only have a few. Takes more time to pose but looks better imo. But the actual sex parts, there is no way around. So you got to buy them.

 

[coffeeaddicted]

I just calculated how much i would spend, if i bought all the assets.
Me, i have 85 assets which is kind of basic. It will total if i apply the 20 dollar price normally charged, about $1700 Dollars.

Again, this is just basic where i relay on a lot of free stuff. There are 2 environments in it. Nothing special. So if everything would be on sale, maybe $800?

I hate freemiums. Always teasing.

I once bought a hair from Linsay. As great as it is, it's a pain to use from scene to scene. Besides it slows down the flow. Don't get me wrong, i actually like that hair (messy long layered hair). For that reason i switched to OOT hair which seems great as well and easier to work with.
I think some assets are meant to be outsourced. Several people working on it. If you do it alone, it will take you a long time and at one point you may give up. Hence the abandoned tag here.

Just by a financial reasoning, i think it isn't really worth it. I call it the DAZ curse. Because it is so beautiful (and arousing) it is a pain to make money with it. Even considering that you are a pro and the work flow is faster.

Anyway, i just wanted to add that. I may be wrong because i see it through my own lens which may be foggy.

These days i may make some renders that i post but that is more or less what i probably will ever do. Thanks.

 

[jamdan]

The best way to limit costs is to learn how to do certain things for yourself.

You can make textures in Substance Painter (subscription, but much cheaper than buying textures from Daz). There are plenty of sites that share free textures too (not pirated, actual free textures). Same for HDRI's, there is really no reason to buy HDRI's on Daz's store.

There are many tutorials on youtube for Blender modeling basically anything. You can literally just follow along and make all sorts of things.

This channel has hundreds of step-by-step modeling tutorials:

You must be registered to see the links

The same applies to props, you can make certain ones yourself. Or for a more simple option, just edit Daz props in Blender. Put different textures on them etc.

Poses, light presets, expressions etc. Well, those are just sliders. Similar to HDRI's, you don't really need to buy them. You're really just buying someone elses slider settings. When you make a good pose, save it as a preset. And bam, you've done the same thing the venders did.

Even with characters, all the Daz models are based on their generations base model. Now, I'm not saying to try to model your own from scratch. But you can edit them a little in Blender and use a few morph packs to make your models unique, you don't really need to buy that many models from Daz to have a diverse cast of characters.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Even with characters, all the Daz models are based on their generations base model. Now, I'm not saying to try to model your own from scratch. But you can edit them a little in Blender and use a few morph packs to make your models unique, you don't really need to buy that many models from Daz to have a diverse cast of characters.

Regarding this, there's two kind of models. One that are sculpted and act as global morph, generally over a Genesis X base, but sometimes over another body. And there's those that are in fact a pure Genesis X with morphs applied to them. You can differentiate them from their store page, the seconds will list the morphs pack(s) as dependencies.
And obviously, the said seconds are less interesting, because you can, more or less perfectly depending on your skills, reproduce them buy applying the same morphs from the same morphs pack(s) without needing to buy the character asset.

But the important point here is that there's two approach when it come to Daz characters. You can either spend a lot in original figures, or spend the same amount of money on a variety of morphs packs and few skin textures packs.
In the first case, you'll have a limited number of characters. But in the second, and if you're good enough (what is a learnable skill) you'll have an unlimited amount of characters. The morphs packs will make your version of Genesis X look like unique. And with the help of Gimp/Photoshop, you can add imperfections to the skin texture you want to use for a given character, while on Daz Studio you can tweak the surface for it to, among other possibilities, have a slightly different tint, what would be enough to also make it relatively unique.
And if, among the morphs packs you buy, there's an aging one, you're good. You spent a lot at first, but will never have to spend more in the future, while being able to only have unique characters whatever the number you'll need and whatever the number of games you'll make.

What will cost the most is, and will always be, the location assets, because you can't really tweak them. You can change a bed texture or a wall texture, but the bed will still looks familiar, and the room have a deja-vu feeling.
Yet, there's also a solution here. When you buy the asset, look at the screenshots. If there's one presenting the furniture as isolated elements, go for it. It mean that you can move them, and also mix them with furniture from another location. Here again it's a way to have more variety with less assets.
Let's say that you buy two bedrooms with their furniture movable. With this you can make the five bedrooms (master, sister 1, sister 2, mc, guest) needed buy your game simply by mixing the furniture and moving them on a side or another of the room. Add a bit of tweaking for the texture, and no one would see that in fact there's only two assets used.

Of course, all this need a bit of skills, but it's not skills that are really too difficult to learn.

At worse, download some pirated assets, not to use them, but to study the difference between them regarding their surface; "so, if you put this and that value to this and that property, it looks like metal. And with that and this value, it will looks like plastic..."
Repeat, experiment, and with time you'll be able to turn a wooden table into a metallic one, change a painting into a mirror (after you removed the painting texture of course), or a solid wall into a glass one (once again after removing its texture).

 

[simarimas]

I have spent well over $5000 on assets over the years. Finding deals and getting stuff on sale is a must. Even if you don't think you will use it right away, if it is something that fits your genre (medieval or whatever) if you find it on sale, get it.

Also, learn to use parts of some assets to combine with others. I just created a hallway for a hotel, used one room, duplicated it multiple times and moved those around. Added in carpet for the hallway floor. Then realized I needed elevator doors at the end of the hall. So found another asset of a hotel lobby. Removed, hit, or reduced opacity on everything not needed and added it to the end of the hall.

Find clothing that is mutlifunctional. Shirts that can be combined with different pants, and change the textures of them as needed. You can make one shirt go a long way with different textures. This is the only way to keep costs down.

Get as many morphs as you can find for characters also. Using one character with many different face morphs you can make them all look unique.

but you are going to spend money, there is no way around it (short of just pirating the stuff).

 

[Spin256]

Like other developers, I have spent thousands on the Daz store, but that's spread out over many years of development.

Planning scenes in advance allows me to be patient. Find the assets that you want, and add them to your wishlist. Buy them on sale and pick up discount store/gift cards to increase your savings.

You can also subscribe to Daz for further discounts, but I'd only recommend it if you plan on regularly picking up assets.

Kitbashing is also strongly recommended. You'll quickly learn which PAs make quality assets suitable for this. I have picked up assets that looked good on the surface but turned out to be low quality up close or one single mesh, meaning I'd have to take them into a modeling application to break them up.

 

[coffeeaddicted]

Like other developers, I have spent thousands on the Daz store, but that's spread out over many years of development.

Planning scenes in advance allows me to be patient. Find the assets that you want, and add them to your wishlist. Buy them on sale and pick up discount store/gift cards to increase your savings.

You can also subscribe to Daz for further discounts, but I'd only recommend it if you plan on regularly picking up assets.

Kitbashing is also strongly recommended. You'll quickly learn which PAs make quality assets suitable for this. I have picked up assets that looked good on the surface but turned out to be low quality up close or one single mesh, meaning I'd have to take them into a modeling application to break them up.

Never heard the term kitbashing.
Over some time, i realized that not all clothing assets are great. Mostly i miss morphs with them. Some just come as such as dforce. So i assume its for very advanced users.
Currently i use light heels. I just love them and use shaders on them.
And as i like pantyhose i am using iwave. They look just great.

As i stated, i am toying with a short story. Not planning to make money at all. Its just a small hobby that takes too much time.
Just the assets i have in total, it will cost me.
Now i know this is a topic no one likes to talk about, and its fine.

The question i was asking myself is just, do i really want to spend that much money? So i am looking how i can not buy so many assets. Or rather, how can make smart choices in getting the right assets.
Since i like older characters, i probably need to acquire Sydney as she has the skin i like.
As for poses, i am really modest. I spend time to make them myself or use free ones as a base to start off with. Takes a little more time.

And males, well, let's just say they are a disappointment. Very view i actually like and clothing is also very much a miss as it is not what i am looking for.
I understand that if you are making a large game, it will take more money to make it happen.
Personally, i wish i could make a real game with movable characters. DAZ isn't really a platform to make that happen.

In any case, i thank you all for your insight. My strategy will be waiting for sales. So my ambition, as little as they are, may never come. Which is ok too.

 

[Turning Tricks]

Never heard the term kitbashing.

Kitbashing is using parts from one asset, in another asset. It's an essential DAZ skill as it allows you to save time while also making your sets and scenes more 'unique'.

An example might be an apartment scene you buy. Looks great, but 1000+ other devs have already used it in their games. So you tear the scene apart... remove what you don't want and add shit from other assets.... a couch from one here, a coffee maker from another product there. You can even use the texture maps from one asset on another (many are a standard 4096x4096 tiles)

There's alternatives to using Blender to modify your existing assets. One trick I use a lot, if an asset was saved as a large single mesh, is to use the Surfaces tab and the 'cutout opacity' slider to hide things you don't want to see. And there's the built in Geometry Editor in DAZ which can do simple modifications to an assets mesh. But that is finiky to use.

And another thing I do, to make my scenes more unique, is I customize almost everything I buy. Like paintings. I have Photoshop projects saved with the base maps for dozens of different picture and painting assets and I constantly add new images to them to suit whatever scene I am trying to make. I also do that with most of my clothes. Learning to use an image editor is a core skill for anyone who makes renders like us.

 

[AllNatural939]

Honestly speaking, I think the people at DAZ are completely crazy. Their prices may not be anything for big developers, but totally prohibitive for the rest of us... Here's an example:

You must be registered to see the links

$30 and you have to add to that the $50 for the license if you want to use it in a game. So we have $80 for a hairstyle that when the time comes maybe isn't even what you expected and you end up not using it. Just one hairstyle... Imagine that your game has 10 characters, for that it should be a relatively small game.
Ideally, all the characters should have different hairstyles, different clothes, and that each character should also have more than one change of clothes. Add in other things like houses, extra items, trees, plants, some scripts that are actually very useful and have their value too... You can literally be paying a few thousand dollars and it's quite likely that you'll never get your money back (remember that you're a mere mortal, not a big successful video game developer)... It's absolutely crazy. The people at DAZ may be crazy and that is why places like these exist:

You must be registered to see the links

https://f95zone.to/forums/asset-releases.95/?prefix_id=33

EDIT: remember that we are in a piracy forum and I really find it peculiar that there are people who may not know about the links I posted above.

 

[Spin256]

Never heard the term kitbashing.

It's a term created by model makers. Models would come in self-assembly kit form, and they would use parts from different kits to make a new model, essentially bashing the kits together for something new to pop out.

Spending money in the Daz store is basically saving you from making it yourself. Time is money, and if the items are cheaper than your time to make that item, you have an answer.

Daz can import models from anywhere, providing they're in the correct format. A simple cube can look like a washing machine or a kitchen cabinet with textures. If you don't like the clothes, make your own in Marvelous Designer.

If the clothes from the store don't have the morphs you need, use a tool such as Fit Control.

Unity and Unreal have character assets if you want to make a game with 3d characters. Daz models are high poly meshes, which are not always good in a real 3d game.

 

[Spin256]

Honestly speaking, I think the people at DAZ are completely crazy. Their prices may not be anything for big developers, but totally prohibitive for the rest of us... Here's an example:

You must be registered to see the links

$30 and you have to add to that the $50 for the license if you want to use it in a game.

The interactive license is for real-time 3d games, such as unity or unreal where you need to give the end user the 3d mesh. In those cases, you're better off looking for stuff specifically designed for it, as the Daz stuff isn't optimized for real-time rendering.

 

[AllNatural939]

The interactive license is for real-time 3d games, such as unity or unreal where you need to give the end user the 3d mesh. In those cases, you're better off looking for stuff specifically designed for it, as the Daz stuff isn't optimized for real-time rendering.

Oh, I didn't know that, thanks for clarifying, but that doesn't change anything, at least not for me. That $32 is what I spend on a month's transportation from home to work and back again... Would I rather have a hairstyle or be able to move around for a month? No question about it...

 

[n00bi]

At worse, download some pirated assets, not to use them, but to study the difference between them regarding their surface;
"so, if you put this and that value to this and that property, it looks like metal. And with that and this value, it will looks like plastic..."
Repeat, experiment, and with time you'll be able to turn a wooden table into a metallic one, change a painting into a mirror (after you removed the painting texture of course), or a solid wall into a glass one (once again after removing its texture).

This is not a "Worst at all" case. this is sadly almost a must unless youre borne a millionaire.
For office nerds its easy, buy a cheap-ass pc and a office-pack and youre set..
For games, its easy, buy a good pc with a descent graphics cards.. and spend $100 on your fav game and youre set..

For 3DArtists. gosh.
Not only do You need a good pc with a good Nvidia card, There is the need for tools aswell.
While Daz/Blender/Gimp is free, there is a reason studios often prefere other tools, its because of lack of help/support in blender. YT is not really a help-desk
Tools like Maxon Cinema4D, Autodesk Maya/3ds Max, Houdini, Modo, Lightwave 3D and so on is payware or have a subscription model and cost way to much imo.
Some of these tools can even cost several $1000's
And then we come to assets, because you cant sit and model, uwrap, paint/texture etc a ton of stuff, takes way too long.
You need to get your hands on pre-made ones.
And when you see the prices for some of the assets i will justify piracy for personal usage.

Altho i would say it probably easier to get away with using "piracy" assets in a visual novel if you tweak it a bit..
In a 3d engine its harder because there are tools that can be used to extract the model from the video memory.
so you can compare the mesh as well as the texture..

 

[coffeeaddicted]

Kitbashing is using parts from one asset, in another asset. It's an essential DAZ skill as it allows you to save time while also making your sets and scenes more 'unique'.

An example might be an apartment scene you buy. Looks great, but 1000+ other devs have already used it in their games. So you tear the scene apart... remove what you don't want and add shit from other assets.... a couch from one here, a coffee maker from another product there. You can even use the texture maps from one asset on another (many are a standard 4096x4096 tiles)

There's alternatives to using Blender to modify your existing assets. One trick I use a lot, if an asset was saved as a large single mesh, is to use the Surfaces tab and the 'cutout opacity' slider to hide things you don't want to see. And there's the built in Geometry Editor in DAZ which can do simple modifications to an assets mesh. But that is finiky to use.

And another thing I do, to make my scenes more unique, is I customize almost everything I buy. Like paintings. I have Photoshop projects saved with the base maps for dozens of different picture and painting assets and I constantly add new images to them to suit whatever scene I am trying to make. I also do that with most of my clothes. Learning to use an image editor is a core skill for anyone who makes renders like us.

Well, then i do that already. Not photoshop (too expensive) but changing colors, textures etc..
I just never heard the term. But there are more thing i don't know much about it

 

[coffeeaddicted]

Honestly speaking, I think the people at DAZ are completely crazy. Their prices may not be anything for big developers, but totally prohibitive for the rest of us... Here's an example:

You must be registered to see the links

$30 and you have to add to that the $50 for the license if you want to use it in a game. So we have $80 for a hairstyle that when the time comes maybe isn't even what you expected and you end up not using it. Just one hairstyle... Imagine that your game has 10 characters, for that it should be a relatively small game.
Ideally, all the characters should have different hairstyles, different clothes, and that each character should also have more than one change of clothes. Add in other things like houses, extra items, trees, plants, some scripts that are actually very useful and have their value too... You can literally be paying a few thousand dollars and it's quite likely that you'll never get your money back (remember that you're a mere mortal, not a big successful video game developer)... It's absolutely crazy. The people at DAZ may be crazy and that is why places like these exist:

You must be registered to see the links

https://f95zone.to/forums/asset-releases.95/?prefix_id=33

EDIT: remember that we are in a piracy forum and I really find it peculiar that there are people who may not know about the links I posted above.

I just do it for myself. There is always the thought of, wouldn't it be great to make a game? But i'll get reminded that then, i don't have a life. The game will be my life.
DAZ is great in that you can do a lot with little effort but if you want to be legal, it will really cost a leg.

I am not sure about the license but i have to assume that most buy but never make a game.
As for me, i bought assets. The last was an OOT hair because i never found the right hair for having it not crash. It was cheap.
There are figures i bought, because they would never be on this website. Not everything is "shared" which means the "pirating part seems to have its limits".

If you have not much to spend, this will be really a challenge. Thats why i am just doing it for myself. Maybe post a scene in one of the threads for everyone to enjoy and a little to show off.
But in the end, i did the calculation and in all honesty, i know it isn't worth it. But it is still fun. Otherwise i wouldn't be here.

The real problem is, when you are using parts or all of a DAZ original character. These are hugely expensive. A 3th party character way easier to afford but not as good. (skin wise).
But it really depends what you want to emphasize. Details or just a scene.
Personally i think environmental assets are a little overrated. Everything that was released 22-24 i can't really use as they have larger textures. Of course you can reduce them but i think most users rather watch the character than the environment. So i would not spend too much money on it.

I am looking into making a room. Maybe recreate my flat (shit) for more realism.

 

[coffeeaddicted]

This is not a "Worst at all" case. this is sadly almost a must unless youre borne a millionaire.
For office nerds its easy, buy a cheap-ass pc and a office-pack and youre set..
For games, its easy, buy a good pc with a descent graphics cards.. and spend $100 on your fav game and youre set..

For 3DArtists. gosh.
Not only do You need a good pc with a good Nvidia card, There is the need for tools aswell.
While Daz/Blender/Gimp is free, there is a reason studios often prefere other tools, its because of lack of help/support in blender. YT is not really a help-desk
Tools like Maxon Cinema4D, Autodesk Maya/3ds Max, Houdini, Modo, Lightwave 3D and so on is payware or have a subscription model and cost way to much imo.
Some of these tools can even cost several $1000's
And then we come to assets, because you cant sit and model, uwrap, paint/texture etc a ton of stuff, takes way too long.
You need to get your hands on pre-made ones.
And when you see the prices for some of the assets i will justify piracy for personal usage.

Altho i would say it probably easier to get away with using "piracy" assets in a visual novel if you tweak it a bit..
In a 3d engine its harder because there are tools that can be used to extract the model from the video memory.
so you can compare the mesh as well as the texture..

Yes, that is true. (i think)

Its sad that many games never get finished but some not so good games, run forever.
Money flow.

I used Cinema on the Amiga, but since then not anymore.
All the other software isn't for amateurs really because there are expensive.
And my PC, though not the slowest it isn't new. I draw with a RTX3060. It isn't really meant to render big scenes and not too many divisions either.
I could imagine the get a 4070 maybe. Seems like a good compromise.
A 2080 on the other hand is still very expensive.

I rather play a real game (you know like Plague Tale) instead of waiting for DAZ to render one scene.
Though all the discussion opened my eyes, how much it would take to actually make or create a game by legal side.

DAZ has a place in my life at the moment but not to get serious.