Daz for beginners: how to avoid the simple mistakes.

Doorknob22

Super Moderator
Moderator
Game Developer
Nov 3, 2017
2,225
5,362
This post is not about making awesome DAZ renders. I’m not in a position where I can give good artists tips on how to become great artists. This post is intended for newbies making their first steps with Daz and lists some of the most common mistakes I see new Daz users do, mostly mistakes I made myself.

1. Careless positioning.
  • Fingers - make sure fingers are not penetrating flesh or walls.
  • Feet - on the ground, neither floating above it nor sinking in it.
  • Clothes - skin not peaking through the material.
Tip: study the renders carefully after you render and don’t hesitate to re-render if you find these “bugs”.

2. Long female hair positioning - could related to the previous post and to bullet #7 below. Watch where that long hair is going. Hair is not supposed to go into the character's back or breasts. If a girl is lying on her back, gravity will pull her hair back. Watch the ponytail or long bangs, make sure they conform the way you want before you start using the hair piece.

Tip 1: the shorter a character’s hair is, the easier your life will be.
Tip 2: don’t choose a hair only based on how it looks on a standing character. Play with it a little before you decide and make sure it has all the morphs you need. Long hair with very few morphs is asking for trouble.

3. Expressions - less is more. It’s always better to leave your character slightly less expressive than slightly more. Hideous, insane grins or angry scowls do wonders to cringe your players. When talking about "uncanny valley", bad expressions are the main culprit IMO.

Tip: avoid dialing expressions to 100%. Always try to reduce the dial just a bit more until you can’t dial it down without losing the expression.

4. Out of the box setups - how many games did you play that use or ? Using “out of the box” setups increases the chances of “game deja vu”, reducing the immersion of your players.

Tip: When I use a set, I always try to change it so it doesn’t look like a copy of others. I take out some objects and replace them with others. When I use a cloth or hair I try to change the material from the default to something different.

5. Clothed big tits - Daz doesn’t handle clothed big tits gracefully, turning the mammaries into gross “tit socks” if you just put the shirt on the girl and increase boobs to the max. There’s no easy solution for this. I tried two commercial products and am not happy with the results of either.

Tip: For beginners I think the best solution is to use clothes with “big breast” morphs included. Remember to actually reduce the girl’s breasts size if you want to use a “big breast” morph included with a cloth. I created my own doc which helps using Daz simulation. It’s cumbersome but it works on most clothes and most breast sizes. I’ll post it if anyone’s interested.

6. Taking clothes off - another place where Daz will screw the new artist over is when the story requires characters to take off their clothes. In an adult story, undressing is an important erotic moment as it symbolizes a breakthrough in the relationship but Daz can be very harsh about it and there are very few solutions for showing a character taking off his or her clothes.

Tip: For beginners, there are two main solutions to this problem IMO: using clothes with built in undress morphs (like Nirvy’s) or addressing the undressing aspect story wise. Either way, games where the characters are suddenly naked or the horrible “blowjob through the guys’s jeans” are disconcerting to the players. I also try to show some discarded clothes after the characters took them off to show continuity.

7. If you can’t solve it, hide it - this is the most important tip IMO. If you encounter a problem you can’t solve don’t insist on the original sexual position or camera angle. If the tits are looking hideous in the camera angle you wanted to use, change the angle and hide them. If the girl’s hair defies gravity when she is fucked in doggie style, don’t hesitate to change sexual position until you find one which agrees with the hair solution you use. Don’t insist on a setup which leaves the problem you couldn’t solve in the frame, find a creative way of working around it, even at the price of not rendering the image as you originally intended to.
 
Last edited:

noping123

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Jun 24, 2021
1,510
2,451
Thanks, the hair thing is actually a really useful tip and something I hadn't thought of yet. Same with the clothes. Since you seem like you know what you're doing, I just have one quick question. How long should an average render take? (I just started trying to learn daz, and I created a really quick very basic scene which took over 30 min to render. I'm wondering if that's about normal, or if I'm just working with a potato of a PC).
 

noping123

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Jun 24, 2021
1,510
2,451
damn. looks like I'm working with a potato then. thats disappointing.

Still, some useful tips here, hope some other complete newbs like me come across it. thanks for putting it together.
 

CocoVC

Newbie
Aug 10, 2018
76
168
Add on to 4. Third-party (It didn't come in the box) Textures/Shaders are your friend.
Add on to 5. It's ok to reduce the mammaries a bit when wearing clothes since most women with big tits will wear an undergarment that will reduce their appearance.
 

fitgirlbestgirl

Well-Known Member
Jul 27, 2017
1,141
4,293
Out of the box setups - how many games did you play that use or ? Using “out of the box” setups increases the chances of “game deja vu”, reducing the immersion of your players.
I actually don't care about this at all. New and unique environments are obviously nice to have, but I don't think people should try to reinvent the wheel just to be different. If you need a park for a scene, I think using the park is perfectly fine. To me, having unique looking characters is way more important.
 

woody554

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2018
1,428
1,787
great tips. here's some more with some good to know things.

-don't accidentally apply face shape morphs twice to your character. if you loaded someone's character it probably already has the face morph applied and another round will just double the numbers. so you end up with that down-syndrome face like we see in so many games. usually tiny sloped nose, tiny pig eyes, bulging forehead.

-pose packs often change your character looks in ways that gradually drift away from what you started with. so lock down some typical offenders like character size and victoria 7 body morphs. otherwise you character will sometimes look accidentally anorexic. avoid using the last render pose as a starting point, start from your base character save instead if possible.

-have a standard 'neutral base version' of your character, maybe even make it a scene subset with its typical clothing so you can easily add it with one click. also have at least a 'neutral' pose saved for that character.

-have its body shape saved, so if it looks somehow weird, you can reset the original shape with one click. you'll also probably need several different shapes per character to compensate for weird camera angles. like sometimes a big butt might suddenly look flat from an angle, and you need to make it ridiculously bigger just to look like it hasn't shrunken.

-also save genital shapes. you'll need several for different position, doggy style is very different from missionary. also many of the morphs are in the body not the gens itself. gens are very tricky and it's difficult to have all of the shape saved, which is a huge problem especially with looping animations.

-pay attention to eyes. there's two different morphs for the eye direction, and even if you zero one the eyes can still look to the side. I use power pose tab for that because it's easy to click the eyeballs active, zero their pose, then go to the normal eyes direction morphs to adjust eyes. you need to zero both to be sure eyes are zeroed. these are typically fucked every time the pose has a a facial expression included, whether it was intended or not.

-with all these things, TRUST YOUR OWN EYES! if something looks weird size or otherwise different, it probably is even though you didn't change anything. do not trust the numbers or the fact that you didn't touch anything.
 
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The M.O.

Newbie
Nov 27, 2020
84
30
Daz 3D is memory dependant. If you go over a certain amount of resorces your Daz can just crash. Best to find out how many charactors your system can handle with Daz before running into unexplained crashes later and trying too 'troubleshoot' them
 

sliveart777

Newbie
Nov 12, 2019
80
182
Fit Control is the best bang for your buck in my opinion and it does a good job fixing the "big tits in clothing" problem. Use the Center Depth slider in Fit Control and it works very well. It's also great for morphing a ton of different kinds of clothing that normally can't be done with the clothing out of the box.
 

UpAfterTen

Newbie
Game Developer
Apr 22, 2021
63
154
A couple tips I've run into that frustrated me for a bit:

I was having trouble with stray jagged black lines appearing on the character's face and the whites of their eyes going black. This was a problem since I'm not making a spooky vampire game. It turns out the issue was I had the characters far from the center of the grid on a very big background environment. The solution? Keep the characters right in the middle of the grid and move the environment. The problem went away after that.

I've also had issues with stray hairs getting pixelated artifacts around them which was frustrating. Apparently it's an issue with 4.15 that some people run into. Selecting the hair and changing the Cutout Opacity to 0.99 fixes this for some reason. Why? I don't know. It just works.
 
Apr 21, 2019
85
88
I actually don't care about this at all. New and unique environments are obviously nice to have, but I don't think people should try to reinvent the wheel just to be different. If you need a park for a scene, I think using the park is perfectly fine. To me, having unique looking characters is way more important.
Well, the park is not a wheel that is invented, it's just that when I see the same clothing store in 20 different (yes I'm talking about that fucking store) or that bathroom every dev seems to use

Look, when I see it in 20 games, then there is a big problem to be solved, and it's just tiring, just be unique and like I said your example "don't reinvent the wheel' doesn't work here because I'm pretty sure we are not talking about ffmpeg or mp3 codec, it's just a place that needs to be imagined differently/uniquely with each game, otherwise there isn't much creativity/care by the artist
 

macintosh76

Newbie
May 20, 2021
25
18
Hi,

Thanks, quite interesting. I have been trying to output my first scene for a couple of days now.

So far I've noticed the following:
- memory problems: yes DAZ doesn't like too complex things at least on my setup.
- I prefer to start with a blank and a base genesis model, the one that comes pre-configured have a lot of things that if I want to modify takes hours to find. So starting from blank and adding all my add-ons give me much more control about what I did and how.
- Even if I am satisfied with the first renders with DAZ, I am not sure this is the way. Trying to send my scene to blender now. The speed of rendering of the same things with blender is just amazing. The only thing I like about DAZ is the ease of use and the shitload of content available.

You can achieve good results with DAZ quite quickly, it is nice and encouraging for newbies and rutracker has almost all the content available.
 

immortalkid69

Member
Jun 13, 2022
215
46
This post is not about making awesome DAZ renders. I’m not in a position where I can give good artists tips on how to become great artists. This post is intended for newbies making their first steps with Daz and lists some of the most common mistakes I see new Daz users do, mostly mistakes I made myself.

1. Careless positioning.
  • Fingers - make sure fingers are not penetrating flesh or walls.
  • Feet - on the ground, neither floating above it nor sinking in it.
  • Clothes - skin not peaking through the material.
Tip: study the renders carefully after you render and don’t hesitate to re-render if you find these “bugs”.

2. Long female hair positioning - could related to the previous post and to bullet #7 below. Watch where that long hair is going. Hair is not supposed to go into the character's back or breasts. If a girl is lying on her back, gravity will pull her hair back. Watch the ponytail or long bangs, make sure they conform the way you want before you start using the hair piece.

Tip 1: the shorter a character’s hair is, the easier your life will be.
Tip 2: don’t choose a hair only based on how it looks on a standing character. Play with it a little before you decide and make sure it has all the morphs you need. Long hair with very few morphs is asking for trouble.

3. Expressions - less is more. It’s always better to leave your character slightly less expressive than slightly more. Hideous, insane grins or angry scowls do wonders to cringe your players. When talking about "uncanny valley", bad expressions are the main culprit IMO.

Tip: avoid dialing expressions to 100%. Always try to reduce the dial just a bit more until you can’t dial it down without losing the expression.

4. Out of the box setups - how many games did you play that use or ? Using “out of the box” setups increases the chances of “game deja vu”, reducing the immersion of your players.

Tip: When I use a set, I always try to change it so it doesn’t look like a copy of others. I take out some objects and replace them with others. When I use a cloth or hair I try to change the material from the default to something different.

5. Clothed big tits - Daz doesn’t handle clothed big tits gracefully, turning the mammaries into gross “tit socks” if you just put the shirt on the girl and increase boobs to the max. There’s no easy solution for this. I tried two commercial products and am not happy with the results of either.

Tip: For beginners I think the best solution is to use clothes with “big breast” morphs included. Remember to actually reduce the girl’s breasts size if you want to use a “big breast” morph included with a cloth. I created my own doc which helps using Daz simulation. It’s cumbersome but it works on most clothes and most breast sizes. I’ll post it if anyone’s interested.

6. Taking clothes off - another place where Daz will screw the new artist over is when the story requires characters to take off their clothes. In an adult story, undressing is an important erotic moment as it symbolizes a breakthrough in the relationship but Daz can be very harsh about it and there are very few solutions for showing a character taking off his or her clothes.

Tip: For beginners, there are two main solutions to this problem IMO: using clothes with built in undress morphs (like Nirvy’s) or addressing the undressing aspect story wise. Either way, games where the characters are suddenly naked or the horrible “blowjob through the guys’s jeans” are disconcerting to the players. I also try to show some discarded clothes after the characters took them off to show continuity.

7. If you can’t solve it, hide it - this is the most important tip IMO. If you encounter a problem you can’t solve don’t insist on the original sexual position of camera angle. If the tits are looking hideous in the camera angle you wanted to use, change the angle and hide them. If the girl’s hair defies gravity when she is fucked in doggie style, don’t hesitate to change sexual position until you find one which agrees with the hair solution you use. Don’t insist on a setup which leaves the problem you couldn’t solve in the frame, find a creative way of working around it, even at the price of not rendering the image as you originally intended to.

Uhmm can you share the doc for the simulation to fix clothing?