[DAZ] Photogrammetry & Daz

[Deleted member 1121028]

I was wondering if anyone ever tried to adapt a fully photogrammetry captured skin with Iray shader and Daz?

Like thoses ones on this site :

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Skins will need indeed some work but it's also £25.00 for a test so I'm like :

 

[zger]

lol wtf 1 pose 25$ on that site ;D

 

[Deleted member 1121028]

£25, not the same lol!

but we only need A-pose (or T one) like so far

 

[shark_inna_hat]

If you're aiming for uncanny valley these would do great.
Unless you're using a subsurface scattering shader for the skin, anisotropic for the hair, clear coat for the eyes, PBR with full global illumination on top of hdri IBL for all the rest and using a muscle rig and adaptive skin wrinkle bump maps... nah, waste of time and money. You can probably find something more Daz-fitting for less.

 

[Deleted member 1121028]

Ayy I feel I gonna try (and fail) anyway

I found some freebies on the site and made few tests, just curious how textures looks.
Since I'm lazy, I just copy/pasted default genesis 8 male face surface and replaced textures.
764x1080, default hdri, ~30 sec render on a 2070.



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[Deleted member 1121028]

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from the same site.

 

[thecardinal]

There are some actual real skins that are available for Daz3d characters. Some PAs, like Fred Winkler or Silver (or whatever they changed their name to now) use those airbrushed looking skins, and they love reusing the same ones over and over.

 

[Deleted member 1121028]

Yeah I've seen some really detailed skin (and some very talented people tweak them even further

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, that's where I got that stupid idea from ) but nothing as detailed as a raw photogrametric shot.

As creating a gen8 model from an OBJ is out of my reach, I was thinking about blending additional details "by hand" into an other skin. But since I have an avalanche of thing to render it's not for tomorrow

 

[lancelotdulak]

Those look horrible.

The truth is youre going to have to work on the daz materials yourself. I have to adjust every character and am continually touching them up. And no.. i had no interest in deep diving into texturing and still dont but you have to.

Some things that you should consider.. "photogrammetry" is just a picture. The trick to skin isnt the "make the skin look like a blotchy 70yo chain smoker with skin cancer" a lot of selfproclaimed experts claim. It's mostly things like SSS, color, etc etc. After that you add pores, microwrinkles, hair etc (none of which actually show up except in extreme closeups because.. resolution).
Id strongly suggest you work on your skin shaders and materials first.

 

[lancelotdulak]

Ayy I feel I gonna try (and fail) anyway

I found some freebies on the site and made few tests, just curious how textures looks.
Since I'm lazy, I just copy/pasted default genesis 8 male face surface and replaced textures.
764x1080, default hdri, ~30 sec render on a 2070.

View attachment 408506 View attachment 408505

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people do this a lot because they think "authentic"... especially a few self proclaimed experts. I think it looks stunningly unreal . If i saw this guy id strongly suggest he get a test for melanoma and maybe get a general checkup.. he looks deeply unhealthy. Making "bad skin" isnt making "good realistic skin".

 

[Deleted member 1121028]

That's quite a hot take. I feel you answer to something that is not here? People don't "do this a lot", and I don't know who are those "self proclaimed experts", not sure what you are talking about?

There is discussion around photorealism and Iray here and there. Never seen anything other than people humbly sharing their thoughts and results, even profesionnals. Photogrammetry is an approach to photorealism like any others (FaceGen,Face Transfert...), there is nothing inherently wrong with it. It's all about pushing Daz Studio boundary and having fun while doing it.

Of course you're gonna work on your skins materials and shaders, not sure what you're trying to say. And for those two tests renders, I think we don't see the same things, no hard feelings (some people regard a glass as either half full or half empty). And I think we are not that far away to see a 'real' photogrammetric model (it's not 'just a picture') on Daz Shop.

Anyway, I will see how far I can go in that direction with my small knowledge and time .

 

[recreation]

That's quite a hot take. I feel you answer to something that is not here? People don't "do this a lot", and I don't know who are those "self proclaimed experts", not sure what you are talking about?

There is discussion around photorealism and Iray here and there. Never seen anything other than people humbly sharing their thoughts and results, even profesionnals. Photogrammetry is an approach to photorealism like any others (FaceGen,Face Transfert...), there is nothing inherently wrong with it. It's all about pushing Daz Studio boundary and having fun while doing it.

Of course you're gonna work on your skins materials and shaders, not sure what you're trying to say. And for those two tests renders, I think we don't see the same things, no hard feelings (some people regard a glass as either half full or half empty). And I think we are not that far away to see a 'real' photogrammetric model (it's not 'just a picture') on Daz Shop.

Anyway, I will see how far I can go in that direction with my small knowledge and time .

While I don't agree totally with his post, he actually has a good point though. Many Daz skins are better than they look, and some that "look good" are actually bad, because of the shaders.
Have a look at the gen3 base female textures, the textures are actually really good, lots of details, I think they are actually made from real skin photos. Many of the artists characters use skin made from real skin photos (

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). With the right shaders, they look awesome, but with the standard Daz shader they're... meh^^

 

[Deleted member 1121028]

Could you show an inch ? I'm curious about what you call photorealism tho.

 

[recreation]

An inch of what exactly? If you mean the texture, here is a slightly edited one from g3f base (look at it in original size):

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[Deleted member 1121028]

Render-wise tho I mean ahah
Here an highly edited and detailed skin in comparaison (you can't really move from that pure white light but that's not the point)

 

[recreation]

Render-wise tho I mean ahah
Here an highly edited and detailed skin in comparaison (you can't really move from that pure white light but that's not the point)

View attachment 446456

Well of course there is no such skin for Daz and by the look of it, this skin get's "edited" a lot, because that's how skin looks when it get's plastered with tons of makeup every day. Natural, healthy skin doesn't look like that

But I know what you mean, and I'm not claiming my renders to be photorealsitic, but this is what was able to make out of the gen3 base skin with my shaders:

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^ All of them use the same textures (gen 3 base female), slightly edited by me. I made a new shader (also slightly edited for every character) and that's the result. The original gen3 female character looks like a doll in comparison.

Another example:

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and that's what I was talking about, different shaders can change the look of a skin completely. Many artist's/sellers in the Daz store use high quality skin textures, but use shaders that make the skin look unrealistic, because "clean and beautiful skin" is what sells best (at least that's what I think must be the reason).

 

[Deleted member 1121028]

So tried different thing with those skins very mixed results

You can blend micro details into texture as long as you are mid shoot range, the closer you get the more Zombie land it get, it was was expected but not this much lol. My photoshop skill are very low, but I feel I got way better result at edit details "by hand".

Tried also to blend some kind of face mask but by far it was catastrophic, I whish I saved it

 

[lancelotdulak]

Let me make this a little more technical then.

First neither of those "ultradetailed!" skins look even remotely realistic. they look like someone with skin cancer and assorted other diseases.

The reason for this is something people who are into 3d art should know: 1: Emulating the behavior of light with matter is complex. 2: your brain isnt a computer and doesnt record precise hd images of people 30 times a second.
When light hits skin some of it bounces off, some of it enters the skin and exits at various levels and angles etc . And on and on. Thus why texturing is so complex . Simply taking a picture of someones skin with lots of freckles etc etc and pasting it to a model thus looks horrible. Want a godo example? The big microsoft "AI Woman' rollout. The character model was just Bad and the texturing was worse. A better example is your first image post. "badly mottled skin with freckles and specs and ".. doesnt make it look real.

Your brain: You dont record 30 frames in high detail with your brain. Your brain in fact doesnt work remotely like that. Your brain stereotypes and encodes. It basically records simple charicatures. IE: You dont record that quirk of light that makes a tiny black spot below that tiny white hair on their skin. The next millisecond that is gone and yoru brain doesnt even Note it.

Yes you can use photogrammatry but no thats not "yoru skin texture". You have to use the right texture. You probably have to rework it and actually simplify it. then add shaders etc etc etc. Then if you want to have quirks use your Artistic talent to do it.

 

[Deleted member 1121028]

Whatever my dude lol



Anyway, switched from PS to Substance Painter for editing/blinding micro details and it's soooo fucking fantastic .