Daz3D vs Koikatsu vs Handmade vs Others

[PoCaMoN]

What's up. What you think about games made with Daz3D, is it looks unique every time and enjoyable to play? Or, maybe, Koikatsu's 3DCGs? Is it fair to ask to pay for a game that made literally inside other game? Or, maybe, hand-made arts is the best type of CG? Or, maybe handmade 3D models is enough fappable? Whom you'll financially support? What you think is better?

My own opinion: I can play any games, and no matter what CGs it have, how much of them, and where it was made. But about giving my personal review, helping with advices and supporting in financially - only handmade art or handmade 3d. I won't support a developer that doing games literally pressing 2 butons to download some models and make a render or making screenshots inside the other game like Koikatsu and HS. If I'll have a decision whom to support: 3DCG good loking game, or handmade game, even if it's looking bad, I'll choose a second guy, because he really trying to make own great stuff, spending a lot of time to make those arts and really deserves a support, rather than a guy that the only thing that he's doing on his own is dialogues. That's my honest and fair opinion.

 

[Cokane0]

I like it all, I don't do 2d art games though. Just never tried one to be honest. I have nothing against them. I'll have to try one out soon. I did play a RPGM 2d art game now that I've thought about it a little. I liked it.
I prefer HS and Koikatsu games and will actively search for them. Though there are plenty of Daz Games that I love and patiently wait for updates for. I'm pretty sure the first game I ever played was Dating my Daughter.

As with all things preference wise you will get many different opinions ITT.

 

[Canade]

Daz3D >> Depends on the game. Won't bother if not animated.
Koikatsu >> Depends on the game. Won't bother if not animated.
Honey Select 1,2 >> Depends on the game. Won't bother if not animated.
Handmade >> Usually don't bother. Usually not animated or is usually poorly animated.
Others >> Usually don't bother. Usually not animated. Usually don't like the engine.
Real Porn >> Not into real.
RPGM >> Depends on the game. Depends on if there's combat. Won't bother if not animated.

 

[215303j]

I prefer Daz3D, you can make really good looking scenes with it, if you put in the effort.

That effort is the reason why people resort to HS. In HS, rendering scenes is very easy, so you can have a really good production rate.

If you prefer anime style, then the same applies for hand drawn vs. Koikatsu. The latter being easier to get a good production level.

 

[Cokane0]

I prefer Daz3D, you can make really good looking scenes with it, if you put in the effort.

That effort is the reason why people resort to HS. In HS, rendering scenes is very easy, so you can have a really good production rate.

If you prefer anime style, then the same applies for hand drawn vs. Koikatsu. The latter being easier to get a good production level.

I've seen several people refer to Koikatsu as anime style, and it is of course.
But I've never seen someone refer to HS as anime style, while I always liked it because it reminded me of anime.
Am I missing something?

 

[215303j]

But I've never seen someone refer to HS as anime style, while I always liked it because it reminded me of anime.

Good question... I always thought it to be due to Illusion's background.

Anyway, you can make women somewhat realistically and not too Asian looking in HS. Men, not so much...

 

[Cokane0]

Good question... I always thought it to be due to Illusion's background.

Anyway, you can make women somewhat realistically and not too Asian looking in HS. Men, not so much...

The thing is, the vast majority of anime animators depict their characters as western looking. Albeit drawn in the style of Japanese art. I get what you are saying though. I promise I'm not a weeb

 

[Mimir's Lab]

DAZ: Honestly I don't like Daz too much. You get some amazing environment renders but the characters end up looking like plastic barbie dolls or get too close to uncanny valley. One major disadvantage is that because Daz goes for a more realistic look, people are less tolerant of mistakes you make because they are significantly more noticeable. Shadows in the wrong spot, objects clipping through one another, textures looking too glossy, these are all mistakes that would hurt you a bit in other engines but is way more impactful here. I think because of this, the workload increases substantially along with the hardware required to render. It doesn't help that it seems like all the Daz devs are in an arms race to out-do one another's graphics. But for me, the renders in a VN aren't even important. I'm here for tits and pussy and story, not how your godrays illuminate the puddle of water that bounces light through the glass sliding door to the under chin of your character.

Koikatsu: Koi characters have a cool stylistic look... when you look at them head on that is. Koi characters look absolutely terrible from the side, the head geometry just doesn't look like they were made to be seen at any other angle. I think Koi has the advantage in being one of the quickest ways you can get anime styled renders out and as both a dev and a player, is desirable. It means less time before updates and/or more content in each update as compared to drawn or Daz art.

Drawn: With drawn art, your mileage may vary depending on the artist. You can have great art or terrible art, though great art is definitely fewer and farther in between. One thing is a constant though, the workload is insanely high. I'll be surprised if a drawn game has art assets that number pass the triple digit mark. With drawn art, you can expect artists to take shortcuts that 3dcg devs don't, through creative reuse of art like rearrangement of previously drawn body parts to make different poses and expressions.

Ultimately, my prefered cg of choice is something like HS or HS2, where it's stylistic with a fast workflow. There's a certain charm that comes with stylish that you lose once you go too far down the realism route. With HS, you won't ever get close to the level of visuals that Daz can produce but at least you can produce each render instantly as opposed to their 30-90 minutes on a beastly machine. As a player, it means you can potentially see monthly or even weekly updates versus the 1-6 month development time of Daz games.

 

[DS23G]

I was introduced to adult games via hentai, mainly h-rpgs. So, ultimately, I'll always think that well-done, drawn 2D art is the best possible option, and I say that as someone who's developing a VN with DAZ art. Now, that's mainly because I can't draw for shit, but also because DAZ has come a long way and allows you to actually create great looking renders. So DAZ art is now a close second for me, while I still can't quite get into HS.

 

[megaplayboy10k]

I prefer well-done DAZ work, then well-done hand drawn work, then well-done Honey Select, then average quality daz, average quality hand drawn, and finally average quality honey select.

 

[RT5X]

Hand drawn
I can't stand Koikatsu games because how lazy most of them look, like it takes a total of 2 minutes (at most) to take to characters and make them have sex looping in KK studio. I like the more high effort KK scenes that mix hand drawn with it to make it look unique or the scene that had a lot of time put into them. The low effort KK games feel so soulless to me

 

[Ambir]

Hand drawn
I can't stand Koikatsu games because how lazy most of them look, like it takes a total of 2 minutes (at most) to take to characters and make them have sex looping in KK studio. I like the more high effort KK scenes that mix hand drawn with it to make it look unique or the scene that had a lot of time put into them. The low effort KK games feel so soulless to me

2 minutes? I don't know what drugs you are smoking, but I want some of those.
For most KK animations, unless your characters are the same height, you will need to adjust a lot of things. Mainly, everything is clipping through everything, especially hairs. Another big issue is positionning both characters so that they are actually doing the horizontal tango together, and not just sliding side by side. And let's not talk about hand placement... I have never had it so that the characters had their hands well positionned. Most of the times, their joints are bent at an unnatural angle, and then you need to figure out where to actually place their hands... Ugh.

And, that is if you go with premade animations. If you don't and want to use the timeline, it can be much longer.

Sure, I agree that KK makes things fairly easier, and it might look lazy, but if you want to make decent stuff, it can be quite time consuming, especially when it comes to making the characters and environments.
To be quite honest, I do like animations, but seeing that animations take something like 20 times more time than a still... They really don't feel worth it, unless I'm using the basic ones. (And, well, let's not forget that if you move the limbs at all, the basic animations break, so unless you perform ritual sacrifices before you use those, they will most of the time just not work...)


PS: Or maybe it's just that you have talent and I don't... Can't be quite certain about that.

 

[RT5X]

I guess I've been making Koikatsu content for so long it became so easy for me
But it really isn't hard at all unless you're doing a timeline animation plus I just hate those damn bulbheads
It's like it's extremely easy to tell it's made with Koikatsu
I love seeing the high effort stuff like Next21 or Earthship,etc
It's even worse when the only locations in these games are the default KK maps when there are a crap ton a maps that were ported
Like literally if someone is gonna make a KK game and is serious about it they need to look at guides in discord
The person already knows how to use renpy learning advanced KK techniques should be easy (and I'm a guy who doesn't even know how to program yet)
It just makes me feel like these are mostly cashgrabs tbh (at least most of them)
even doing all these techniques it's still miles easier than drawing (I draw and make Koikatsu content)

I guess I'm still salty one of my favorite F95 games went from drawn to Koikatsu

Sorry if I come of as annoyed, the Koikatsu community in general annoys me sometimes with all of the card beggars.

But KK is better looking than low effort SFM stuff

 

[RT5X]

2 minutes? I don't know what drugs you are smoking, but I want some of those.
For most KK animations, unless your characters are the same height, you will need to adjust a lot of things. Mainly, everything is clipping through everything, especially hairs. Another big issue is positionning both characters so that they are actually doing the horizontal tango together, and not just sliding side by side. And let's not talk about hand placement... I have never had it so that the characters had their hands well positionned. Most of the times, their joints are bent at an unnatural angle, and then you need to figure out where to actually place their hands... Ugh.

And, that is if you go with premade animations. If you don't and want to use the timeline, it can be much longer.

Sure, I agree that KK makes things fairly easier, and it might look lazy, but if you want to make decent stuff, it can be quite time consuming, especially when it comes to making the characters and environments.
To be quite honest, I do like animations, but seeing that animations take something like 20 times more time than a still... They really don't feel worth it, unless I'm using the basic ones. (And, well, let's not forget that if you move the limbs at all, the basic animations break, so unless you perform ritual sacrifices before you use those, they will most of the time just not work...)


PS: Or maybe it's just that you have talent and I don't... Can't be quite certain about that.

But I can't lie your game looks more inspired and way than the rest of the KK games. Great job

 

[ChurryOp]

For Honey Select in particular, what range of facial expressions can it support without massive work? Frankly, that's one of the main benefits of DAZ, but being able to generate recognizable and not-extreme facial features in HS2 would make a huge difference work-flow wise. Anybody chime in on this and maybe point to some examples where facial expressions are done well in HS?

 

[Meaning Less]

For Honey Select in particular, what range of facial expressions can it support without massive work?

Most illusion games have a default expression menu that lets you play around with individual facial expression values, the next image is from koikatsu but they use basically the same system:

 

[Mimir's Lab]

For Honey Select in particular, what range of facial expressions can it support without massive work? Frankly, that's one of the main benefits of DAZ, but being able to generate recognizable and not-extreme facial features in HS2 would make a huge difference work-flow wise. Anybody chime in on this and maybe point to some examples where facial expressions are done well in HS?

I do some okay work with expressions in HS2.

Spoiler: Example

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What Meaning Less posted above me are the default expressions you can use. In HS2, or whatever Illusion game studio you are using, there is a **PE tab (** being initials of whatever game you are using), and in that tab there is an advanced mode tab. Within that advanced mode, there is another tab called Blend Shapes. Here you can mix the default expressions in your game to create more varied expressions. Knowing which sliders to combine to create each expression takes a bit of trial and error but once you understand how, you can get pretty fast. It took me 15 minutes, when I first started, to get each facial expression done, but now I can get each one done in 1-3 minutes.

But HSPE sliders aren't comprehensive. You can get into bone edits to adjust facial features past what is possible with the sliders. Once you have that figured out, it's all a matter of how good you are and how much time you're willing to commit to get nice looking expressions (bone editing is a pretty time-consuming task unless you really know what you are doing). Sadly, we don't have a way to quicksave expressions with the bone edits attached so once you are done, you'll have to recreate the expression from scratch or reuse the character with that expression.