shadow415

Member
Oct 14, 2019
143
247
Why would anyone want to terminate their prize earlier by "hard-working"? Especially those who are trying to give good quality arts --- the quicker, the better ---the more they lose
That's somewhat true. It is the easy and lazy way to make money of patrons but there are cases where people that have actually work hard and delivered constant good quality content kept getting more and more money. Some have grown to the point to be able to hire enough staff to be considered a small indie studio and all of it being supported by patrons. So it shows that hard work is also rewarded by patron.
 

AlisaB

Member
Jun 19, 2018
267
612
If we judge devs with the traditional market rules, none of them would satisfy the market standard. Don't take me wrong though, I also want to see more content. But it is not the devs fault, nor our fault, if that is not happening.
Why shouldnt they be held to the same standards as normal jobs? It is Patreon's fault for not not exacting anything from their "artists" and its devs' fault for abusing a faulty system.
 
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Dilya

Newbie
Dec 8, 2017
53
21
Can we just discuss all these bags after all?

Может всё-таки бесконечные баги пообсуждаем?
 

Zetsuko

Member
Sep 22, 2016
288
760
Why shouldnt they be held to the same standards as normal jobs? It is Patreon's fault for not not exacting anything from their "artists" and its devs' fault for abusing a faulty system.
Exactly. Also, just like I said, working harder means more people are gonna go and pledge, meaning you'll get more money, but it's more comfortable to complain about not having enough to live while still not working hard like the rest of us. Funneh.

Patreon and all these websites should DEFINITELY place minimum work or content amounts for certain amounts of income. If the creator is earning 10k a month(For example), there's no excuse not to have at least 4 full scenes per month, easily. You can hire people, pay for artwork, or whatever the heck you want. No excuses.

If anyone wants to rebate this; Check Futadom world(for example) and then come and tell me some(Most) creators don't abuse their supporters on the fake illusion that "It's too hard and we can't possibly put that much work out there so quickly". I dare you.

The day some creators(Not only one, but a few) start putting content constantly out there with interesting kinks that people can be interested in, people will realize their creators have been lying to them and feeding their delusions.

I still don't think it's bad to support creators, but I really can't stand when they're asking for more money cause "they can't live with what they earn." Isn't it a "hobby"? So why do you expect to live from it? Oh, what's that? It's not a hobby, it's a job? Work 8 hours a day then and you'll be able to live from it.
 
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TheNextOne

Member
Apr 21, 2020
438
554
Exactly. Also, just like I said, working harder means more people are gonna go and pledge, meaning you'll get more money, but it's more comfortable to complain about not having enough to live while still not working hard like the rest of us. Funneh.

Patreon and all these websites should DEFINITELY place minimum work or content amounts for certain amounts of income. If the creator is earning 10k a month(For example), there's no excuse not to have at least 4 full scenes per month, easily. You can hire people, pay for artwork, or whatever the heck you want. No excuses.

If anyone wants to rebate this; Check Futadom world(for example) and then come and tell me some(Most) creators don't abuse their supporters on the fake illusion that "It's too hard and we can't possibly put that much work out there so quickly". I dare you.

The day some creators(Not only one, but a few) start putting content constantly out there with interesting kinks that people can be interested in, people will realize their creators have been lying to them and feeding their delusions.

I still don't think it's bad to support creators, but I really can't stand when they're asking for more money cause "they can't live with what they earn." Isn't it a "hobby"? So why do you expect to live from it? Oh, what's that? It's not a hobby, it's a job? Work 8 hours a day then and you'll be able to live from it.
Sadly, with all this being true. The real problem is the patrons who support such devs. And there is nothing that can be done to make people more responsible with their spending. Either they are forgetful or gullible.
I doubt the platforms such as patreon will implement minimum content levels either since it will decrease their own profits since the patreons will jump ship from the easy life to go to a different platform. It is a question of morality and it rarely aligns with chasing profit.
We can only keep writing these messages to hopefully make more people realize what they are doing.

Now this makes me think: is it just as immoral to keep suporting a dev who milks patreons as compared to this exact dev milking its patreons?
 

Zetsuko

Member
Sep 22, 2016
288
760
Sadly, with all this being true. The real problem is the patrons who support such devs. And there is nothing that can be done to make people more responsible with their spending. Either they are forgetful or gullible.
I doubt the platforms such as patreon will implement minimum content levels either since it will decrease their own profits since the patreons will jump ship from the easy life to go to a different platform. It is a question of morality and it rarely aligns with chasing profit.
We can only keep writing these messages to hopefully make more people realize what they are doing.

Now this makes me think: is it just as immoral to keep suporting a dev who milks patreons as compared to this exact dev milking its patreons?
No it's not, you're not immoral for supporting someone for making a game, even if the creator is doing that, specially when most creators do.

And I don't think the solution would really be for people to just stop pledging to them all, all of sudden. The solution would be to have some honest content creators who deliver a nice amount of content per month so people would stop pledging to the old creators, and FORCE them to actually work to get back those backers. But since that's not going to happen, we're just gonna keep listening to creators saying they don't earn enough when they earn x2 what normal people does while working 7 times less.
 
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slavegal

Member
Apr 17, 2020
428
530
Sadly, with all this being true. The real problem is the patrons who support such devs. And there is nothing that can be done to make people more responsible with their spending. Either they are forgetful or gullible.
I doubt the platforms such as patreon will implement minimum content levels either since it will decrease their own profits since the patreons will jump ship from the easy life to go to a different platform. It is a question of morality and it rarely aligns with chasing profit.
We can only keep writing these messages to hopefully make more people realize what they are doing.

Now this makes me think: is it just as immoral to keep suporting a dev who milks patreons as compared to this exact dev milking its patreons?
Why shouldnt they be held to the same standards as normal jobs? It is Patreon's fault for not not exacting anything from their "artists" and its devs' fault for abusing a faulty system.
this is exactly what I am talking about, they wouldn't take it as a normal job because it is not.

apparently, patrons can't do anything about it, otherwise, no one would complain about it. No one can "fire" a dev because of the inefficiency, it is not how it works. one could be very surprised: why a dev don't upload much still get 10+k per month? it doesn't make any sense.... it doesn't match market rules ... but it is fact, isn't it? no one has to be resentful of a fact, just like no one should be bothered by the fact: Picasso"s "rubbish" could worth so much so that this lazy artisan doesn't have to work from 9 -5 like us.

Besides, the way of getting payment is not normal. As I said, patronization creates a twisted prize/penalty pattern. If someone's potential income decrease because of hard-working, then, basically, he/she won't work hard. this is a fundamental axiom. This situation is totally different from a "normal job".

This is not a normal job, so it is not necessary for patrons to be forgetful or gullible to keep paying devs who don't update much, the reason could be they like the dev, they like the arts, they like ..." hope", because they might not be able to find the same thing somewhere else, it is quite usual when it comes to arts. This is not as same as a "normal job".

Because it is not a market behavior~ it is not reasonable, either rational

The context we must be mindful of is that: few players on Patreon can find what they need from other sources. The gaming industry doesn't appreciate kinky/deviant/independent games at all. it is very difficult for devs to move their passion to Steam, and make it a "normal job". SADLY, patronization is the only choice for players and devs in the kinky/deviant gaming field so far, and the relationship is twisted by the nature of "patronization"

Above all, naturally, if the gaming industry(EA, Ubisoft, etc) opens more resources to those independent devs, and players can buy games easily from platforms like Steam so that devs won't get any payment if they don't work efficiently(they could make millions on another hand if they work hard --- such motivation doesn't exist on Patreon ), websites like Patreon would disappear overnight ---- at least it would be true for the adult gaming section. Without Patreon, the "patronization abusing" wouldn't exist, then there wouldn't be "milking" either.

That is the solution. Well, people could keep complaining, but really, this is not the first dev to be confronted, and won't be the last one, as long as patronization is still the only way --- an unreasonable non-market behavior.
 
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slavegal

Member
Apr 17, 2020
428
530
Well said. The only thing i disagree is lack of other options. At least for me there are plenty of japanese h-games with my favourite kinks and themes, many of those are or will be translated and uncensored by Kagura.
if you like Japanese games, you are lucky. Hentai itself is a huge industry in Japan, the adult game is only a part of it. There are Hentai comics, Hentai animations, Hentai dolls, Hentai hotels, and other "Hentai" services ...they have their own fundraising channel, directors, producer, painter, programmer together they work as in "normal job"...most adult games that can be found on Steam are from Japan(mainly "corruption", I doubt Steam has some special policies for kinky games...poor us)

For me, I am afraid Japanese adult games on Steam are almost as soft as vanilla, and others...I have a different thought on "what is kink and what is violence" than Japanese Hentai devs. They are really good, I just don't want to watch too much unwilling suffering, personally.

I tried a Japanese game here yesterday because of its nice arts, and "I" was killed by an iron maiden in 10 minutes ...the devs present the bloody scene with full detail... I might not touch any Japanese kinky game from now on
 
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RadtheMan

Member
Aug 5, 2019
150
140
I'm trying to enter the residential area from the Metro station and get 'Can't go there right now'. I presume this is a time-of-day thing, but I don't know how to get time to pass so I can try again later. Any tips?
 

KaneKong

Newbie
Jun 23, 2019
40
10
I'm trying to enter the residential area from the Metro station and get 'Can't go there right now'. I presume this is a time-of-day thing, but I don't know how to get time to pass so I can try again later. Any tips?
If it is in the evening (after you climb out of the window) you have to take the Taxi
 

Hexydezimal

Newbie
Sep 18, 2018
19
29
Wanna tell me art takes time? Programming takes time? Doe, I have both programmer and artist friends. That's bullshit...
You've obviously never had any art commissioned for you, much less full-body, fully-shaded images.

There isn't an experienced artist I know who would do a single one of those for less than a few hundred dollars at a minimum, and it typically takes quite a few hours for them to finish one.

That's not to say Mulan isn't dragging per se, but for you to talk about art like it doesn't take time is absolutely ridiculous.
 

Zetsuko

Member
Sep 22, 2016
288
760
You've obviously never had any art commissioned for you, much less full-body, fully-shaded images.

There isn't an experienced artist I know who would do a single one of those for less than a few hundred dollars at a minimum, and it typically takes quite a few hours for them to finish one.

That's not to say Mulan isn't dragging per se, but for you to talk about art like it doesn't take time is absolutely ridiculous.
First thing that's wrong in your statement, is the fact that you talk about money.

Commissioning an artist is expensive...BUT if your partner is the artist and you 50/50 it, there's no excuse. Don't try to come and shit me.

You're absolutely right, a full rendered body art can take hours, but the fact that you don't even see that ONLY SOME of the art is fully made, and the rest is literally pieces of a body stitched together and edited because of how much of a fanboy you are, is shameful to say the least.

People like you are the reason why they keep leeching and Stalin' their shit :KEK: Pun intended
 
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