Developer Rant

[Crim2582]

Rant warning.

Why is it that every developer always tries this same bullcrap. Nearly all of them. They have nice well built game centered around one or two characters that is limited in scope when they start out. Then once they get to the first lewd act of their first character they then change scope and start including other characters. Development slows because renders take time, coding takes time, and writing takes time and now they just added to their work load. Each new girl needs a shower scene, tease scene, strip scene, hj, bj, vag sex, anal sex, etc... Most hobby shop developers can't handle concurrent development on more than 1 or 2 characters and keep to a monthly or bi-monthly schedule. So instead they develop each character individually. Which leads to bugs as the code they are writing gets hit by crunch time towards the end of their normal development cycle and they have a choice of get it to work or delay and piss off their patreon subs. It also leads to accusations of milking their patreon because they never get to the "good" stuff and project delays. That and each time they work on one character over another the people who prefer one character get pissy that their favorite didnt get work.

I know this is a waste of time and no prospective developers will ever see this and it will get buried, possibly modded because it is a fucking rant, but if any developers or prospective developers read this please for the love of god:

1. Plan out your characters and show your patreon subs the intended characters or at least let them know how many to expect if you want to keep the designs a surprise.

2. Tell your high paying patreons(whales) to fuck off about including their original character (Do Not Steal(except please steal because I suck at drawing and I really want to have virtual sex with my idealized waifu))

3. Do not include any patreon rewards where someone can add their own scene. This is outside the scope of your original plan. Stick to it and tell them to fuck off.

4. When setting up the code for your game account for all planned characters even if they arent ready for active development yet.

5. Work on 1 or 2 characters at a time or whatever you find you can handle at your current development pace. This applies more to solo hobbyists. Groups that can collaborate effectively have probably already gotten their shit together and hopefully someone has project management skills.

6. When development is mostly finished on a character then start on the next. This way as you add characters to the project and get more finished if you get bored with the character you are working on you can go back and add a scene for one of your more developed characters as "bonus" content or whatever you want to call it.

7. Once you've got all of your planned content + boredom and burnout content done, branch your project and keep the original finished design available. Now offer to let your whales add their OCs to the content as its own branch. Make sure your whales understand that the content they want added will eventually be available to all your subs. Realistically even if they are supposed to have exclusivity permanently it will get pirated and probably wind up here.

 

[hgameartman]

See also: 75%+ of triple-A games.
Also enterprise software, or literally anything else in the world.
It's so pervasive in all of software development we spent two weeks talking about it in my Software Architecture and Design class back in college.

Scope creep is a real thing. My game was supposed to be at 33% done by the end of this year.
It's currently only 20% done, and this is with me not adding to the original scope of the game, just different things coming up in the regular course of development!

 

[RanliLabz]

The truth is, most devs really make games for their own enjoyment - and the ones that don't usually end up with crap games. They're doing it for a hobby - maybe they want to tell a story or include a less common kink, make fan-fiction of an existing game or just revel in the adulation of players

A lot is to do with the time development takes. For a player, 15mins-1hr of engagement with Lola may have left them wanting more - but the dev has just spent 300+ hours with Lola and really needs a break. In order to keep the game going, they move onto a new character rather than halt development.

Sometimes devs also want to go off script - add an unplanned scene or character to freshen everything (including themselves) up. In the many months since they started the game, they will have had many more ideas and enthusiasms, will have learned new skills and designed new models. Part of the creative process must be fluidity to avoid things becoming stale.

Devs are also trying to tell a story - and most stories won't work if only 1 or 2 characters are involved (all those dead spaces in the plot!). I doubt the players would enjoy that much either - I know I hate those v0.1 things where most locations are empty or NPCs just give a stock response.

Re patrons: well, money talks - and devs are always going to listen more to fans who pay them money. I think a lot of people mistake how much they listen, though. I agree, however, that it is insane to offer patreon awards of designing characters and scenarios... you might be wasting a month's dev time for 100 bucks.

 

[Deleted member 1684328]

This can have various reasons. My game is a Harry Potter parody with almost all well known female characters. Having different characters in your game may make your game more interesting. For example, a lot of people know Hermione/Ginny/Luna, but I try to do something different by including Bellatrix, Narcissa, McGonagall and Molly too.

Multiple characters might also stretch the development of your game, since you can give players more content.

 

[WIRProductions]

#1 and 6 can always flux and change when the creative juices are flowing. A writer can think of only having X characters but then a sudden spark of inspiration hits and now there is Z. Sometimes this is good, sometimes its bad, but it happens. I know it has happened a lot with my writing, and no doubt I have some readers who bang their head on the keyboard wondering why I added 'another' character, but at the time it made sense to the story.

Working on 1 or 2 characters at a time also runs into problems also runs into problems for those sticking with the game's story from day 1. It'll get disjointed and weird. It might be totally annoying to only get a scene here or there for X characters as they slowly develop, but long-term it'll read better. Otherwise it'll read like there are huge gaps in the story, especially for visual novel style games.

Not being a coder or artist, I cannot comment on development hell for them, but the writing side of thing is a lot harder than people want to admit. I think this is the biggest issue a lot of H-Developers have. They come to realize crafting a coherent story is hard and more time consuming than they thought. Unless they literally made a huge plot chart they can look at a glance, the re-checking for plot holes and adding new plot threads gets longer and longer the further the story goes. Then add to it the financial cost of making all those sex scenes come to life, and now money becomes an issue.

This is not even considering the issue of out-sourcing scenario writing to others. Sure, the devs time is freed up but now there is an extra cook in the kitchen who may or may not fuck up the story and piss off established fans...see the MILFY City Caroline shitstorm a while ago.

Honestly, just by noticing those games that are a success vs. busts, overall it is the devs that are 'teams' that seem to finish and/or are more consistent with updates. A coder, an artist, and a writer would be the best starting hobby team in my opinion because then the workload is spread out evenly, and no out-sourcing, thus keeping the original vision.

 

[kytee]

I think it's an issue of skill and a lack of focus. It's very difficult to create a deep, engaging episodic story about a small cast of characters. At the heart of every story is conflict and the less characters you have, the less opportunities to create meaningful conflict. The addition of new characters into a story is poorly done when the writer has written himself into a corner where all the conflicts are solved or no logical solution can be found for a conflict that exists in the story so the writer creates a new character to keep the story going. A better way to introduce a new character is to introduce them a while before you need them for a pivotal moment in a story. For example, Oberyn Martell in Game of Thrones was introduced earlier on in the season before getting his watermelon squashed. You could argue that his only purpose was to lose to the Mountain to build up suspense for the rest of the story, but the way he was seamlessly introduced makes it feel otherwise.

The only way you can tell an episodic story with a small cast of characters is if those characters are extremely deep with several layers of history and depth and a plot that is both engaging and long running. The truth of the matter is, none of us are at that level of skill in writing to pull that off. I think most of the devs here come from an art or coding background and the few that come from a writing background definitely did not graduate top of class (I wouldn't read a book written by any of the devs here if I'm being honest). The alternatives are to write an extremely short story (2-3 hrs) focused on one or two characters or write a long one with many characters. And the short one just isn't profitable.

 

[Joshua Tree]

The truth is, most devs really make games for their own enjoyment - and the ones that don't usually end up with crap games. They're doing it for a hobby - maybe they want to tell a story or include a less common kink, make fan-fiction of an existing game or just revel in the adulation of players

A lot is to do with the time development takes. For a player, 15mins-1hr of engagement with Lola may have left them wanting more - but the dev has just spent 300+ hours with Lola and really needs a break. In order to keep the game going, they move onto a new character rather than halt development.

Sometimes devs also want to go off script - add an unplanned scene or character to freshen everything (including themselves) up. In the many months since they started the game, they will have had many more ideas and enthusiasms, will have learned new skills and designed new models. Part of the creative process must be fluidity to avoid things becoming stale.

Devs are also trying to tell a story - and most stories won't work if only 1 or 2 characters are involved (all those dead spaces in the plot!). I doubt the players would enjoy that much either - I know I hate those v0.1 things where most locations are empty or NPCs just give a stock response.

Re patrons: well, money talks - and devs are always going to listen more to fans who pay them money. I think a lot of people mistake how much they listen, though. I agree, however, that it is insane to offer patreon awards of designing characters and scenarios... you might be wasting a month's dev time for 100 bucks.

Suppose its a balance to it. Less characters, the need for a deeper and greater story. Deep characters, and great stories not really a thing with most of these games. Some people seems to like more pussy and bigger schlongs thrown on the conveyer belt to compensate for a feeble story and shallow characters. I rather want a good story then, or you could just as well take a night out at a strip joint and watch bouncing milk barrels and twerking cabooses until you get cross eyed.

As for empty locations with nothing to do in them. Maybe it would be worth it to just not open up those locations before something could be done in them. At least when it comes to rooms outside the typical house you live in.

As you say wasting a month's dev time for 100 bucks... Not just that, but the chance is you are pissing off a great deal of your other patreons that doesn't really want or like the scene and rather would wanted that "dev time" invested into the core game they actually support the creator for. I absolutely loathe any patreon rewards that give players/readers any WHAT SO EVER creative input/influence on the game/story. If I pledge to a creator I do so because of his/hers work, not for whatever influence patreons have on the creative. A game with multiple paths and characters, and dev time for each is based on a poll? If you really unlucky 3 updates later and nothing been added to the path you like or the characters you like. Sorry Bob, you didn't want my money anyways...

 

[Joshua Tree]

I think it's an issue of skill and a lack of focus. It's very difficult to create a deep, engaging episodic story about a small cast of characters. At the heart of every story is conflict and the less characters you have, the less opportunities to create meaningful conflict. The addition of new characters into a story is poorly done when the writer has written himself into a corner where all the conflicts are solved or no logical solution can be found for a conflict that exists in the story so the writer creates a new character to keep the story going. A better way to introduce a new character is to introduce them a while before you need them for a pivotal moment in a story. For example, Oberyn Martell in Game of Thrones was introduced earlier on in the season before getting his watermelon squashed. You could argue that his only purpose was to lose to the Mountain to build up suspense for the rest of the story, but the way he was seamlessly introduced makes it feel otherwise.

The only way you can tell an episodic story with a small cast of characters is if those characters are extremely deep with several layers of history and depth and a plot that is both engaging and long running. The truth of the matter is, none of us are at that level of skill in writing to pull that off. I think most of the devs here come from an art or coding background and the few that come from a writing background definitely did not graduate top of class (I wouldn't read a book written by any of the devs here if I'm being honest). The alternatives are to write an extremely short story (2-3 hrs) focused on one or two characters or write a long one with many characters. And the short one just isn't profitable.

I have read a lot of books in my time. Short stories, fan fictions, a lot of varied stuff. You don't need a huge cast of characters to make a good story. You need a good writer to make a good story. I seen a few games around here that have if not excellent writing, at least have writing and story that stand out from the rest. I think a lot of the issues in regard of writing and story is English is not the native language for many of the creators, and a lot get lost in poor translation. Seeing dialogues constructed cringe af.... Imho best way to create good dialogues is to have in mind "daily speech", how people interact and talk with each other daily. Maybe not the best learning example, but if English is not your native language, start binge watch English speaking soaps...

It would be best to have written down the story you want to tell in your game, before start make it. Less chance of writers block and going off the rails making it up as you go along. It's very rare when creating movies the director give the actors carte blanche to do scenes adlib. Scripts and dialogues there for a reason.

If all you think about is profit when make your game, you really need to have the skills and dedication to back that up though. Throwing copious amount of pixel pussy at the screen to compensate for everything horrible else most likely won't bring huge profit...

 

[Crim2582]

I never expected a bunch of reasonable well thought out responses to my rant. Its kind of encouraging.

 

[Onedge]

The truth is, most devs really make games for their own enjoyment - and the ones that don't usually end up with crap games. They're doing it for a hobby - maybe they want to tell a story or include a less common kink, make fan-fiction of an existing game or just revel in the adulation of players

A lot is to do with the time development takes. For a player, 15mins-1hr of engagement with Lola may have left them wanting more - but the dev has just spent 300+ hours with Lola and really needs a break. In order to keep the game going, they move onto a new character rather than halt development.

Sometimes devs also want to go off script - add an unplanned scene or character to freshen everything (including themselves) up. In the many months since they started the game, they will have had many more ideas and enthusiasms, will have learned new skills and designed new models. Part of the creative process must be fluidity to avoid things becoming stale.

Devs are also trying to tell a story - and most stories won't work if only 1 or 2 characters are involved (all those dead spaces in the plot!). I doubt the players would enjoy that much either - I know I hate those v0.1 things where most locations are empty or NPCs just give a stock response.

Re patrons: well, money talks - and devs are always going to listen more to fans who pay them money. I think a lot of people mistake how much they listen, though. I agree, however, that it is insane to offer patreon awards of designing characters and scenarios... you might be wasting a month's dev time for 100 bucks.

You said it all.

If I could add one thing to this, it's that sometimes you might have something planned out perfectly, to the last detail, and in the end it just doesn't end up looking like what you had imagined. But you did spend all the time coding it, which is the most time-consuming part. So for a simple update you may have spent tons of time that the player will never see as content.

 

[RanliLabz]

You said it all.

If I could add one thing to this, it's that sometimes you might have something planned out perfectly, to the last detail, and in the end it just doesn't end up looking like what you had imagined. But you did spend all the time coding it, which is the most time-consuming part. So for a simple update you may have spent tons of time that the player will never see as content.

True. I have very little render wastage - but huge amounts of dialogue and code get created and chucked if they don't cut the mustard. Sometimes, that means moving onto another scene while deciding what to do instead to retain forward momentum. Sadly, game-devs don't have the novelist's luxury of taking three months break to reappraise, think laterally or 'find themselves'

 

[Onedge]

True. I have very little render wastage - but huge amounts of dialogue and code get created and chucked if they don't cut the mustard. Sometimes, that means moving onto another scene while deciding what to do instead to retain forward momentum. Sadly, game-devs don't have the novelist's luxury of taking three months break to reappraise, think laterally or 'find themselves'

There's just way too little time to take a break. I'm guessing you'll agree that, no matter how many supporters you have, there's the additional anxiety/passion to simply see the next segment/minigame/character implemented (bug-free too) that I would simply start feeling guilty when taking a break for more than 2-3 days. And let's not get started on bugs. My main minigame was breaking - though under very specific circumstances - and the thing that was causing it was that a number was 9 instead of 8 in my code.

 

[RanliLabz]

There's just way too little time to take a break. I'm guessing you'll agree that, no matter how many supporters you have, there's the additional anxiety/passion to simply see the next segment/minigame/character implemented (bug-free too) that I would simply start feeling guilty when taking a break for more than 2-3 days. And let's not get started on bugs. My main minigame was breaking - though under very specific circumstances - and the thing that was causing it was that a number was 9 instead of 8 in my code.

100%, lol. I've actually only taken one break from development since I released 2 years ago No weekends, no days off otherwise... with great porn comes great responsibility!

And I feel you on the code - I broke an entire route for 2 updates because of an extra = sign that I didn't pick up in testing

 

[rk-47]

i just know you were thinking of icstor and milfy city when you wrote this lol

 

[anne O'nymous]

Devs are also trying to tell a story - and most stories won't work if only 1 or 2 characters are involved (all those dead spaces in the plot!). I doubt the players would enjoy that much either - I know I hate those v0.1 things where most locations are empty or NPCs just give a stock response.

Should also be added that introducing all characters at once is a really bad idea. Not only because it's really difficult to fit this in a story, but also because of the player. It's better to give them the time to learn a bit about few characters, before introducing some new ones. This way, the author have the time to present each character in one or two dedicated scenes, and the player the time to store all this in his memory.