Do you already think about intern programs?

[cobaia2392]

First thing, my english is not so good, sorry in advance.

The point of that question in title is:

We have so many developers, designers, writers, programmers in so many projects, and our community is (beside the discussions) engaged in the majority of the threads.

i'm thinking about an internship program, like some of the categories cited up, take some members like a interns to share knowledge, in other hand the interns will help the seniors in their current projects or a number of projects predetermined by the senior to "pay" for that kind of knowledge.

But is something i think about and don't know if someone already say something like that, but i left this thread to discussion if is something new.

Thanks in advance, and i think i'm not violating any rule.

Good day, afternoon or evening to you all.

 

[Girm Ork]

Good idea, but very hard to do it.
I am making Unity games, they all in 3D, and I can't speak for the majority of devs here because of that (other devs usually work with 2D renders/images and write code for the RenPy engine).

I don't think it is possible to delegate something important to an intern.
If I'll ask him to write some game code, then it would be really hard for me to read, comprehend, and, if necessary, fix his code. If I'll ask him to make a 3D animation, then it would be hard for me to check his animation keys and fix them.

Yeah, I can ask an intern to draw some UI buttons. But I don't think he needs knowledge about using Photoshop. And this task would be tiresome and useless for him.

 

[cobaia2392]

My knowledge is limited in some areas, but like em photoshop we have the image ready to use and some archives with the making the process.

Animation like that can be saved with the frames in a timeline no? (Again if i'm saying something wrong please correct me)

Coding is more a logical process, with some editors like atom or sublime text to do the skeletal of the project?

The x of the question is more the seniors find interns with real interest and compromise to learn.

Like i'm, i try some renders with daz but the tutorials and courses in dollar is most expensive, out the problem to know if the course will really attend the objective.
Now i'm with a friend have adquired a programmer course with html, css, php, java to fill our ignorance in that area, but is something more general nothing really specific to gaming coding.

 

[HopesGaming]

The standard VN dev here.
I wouldn't know what to delegate to an intern.
One, it requires a big trust to give custom morphed characters. But let say you do trust the intern and let them do some of the 3D rendering. Many games have a unique art style and way of doing it.
But it is doable if an intern is skilled at 'copying' the style of the dev.

Photoshop work has very different workflows. Also, as far as I know, most dev likes to do that part themselves. Due to how 'opinionated' working with the PS post work it. Like, some may like filter A while others filter B. But it can be doable.

Animation. Same as 3D rendering.

Script/story. Depends on the game. Some games have loose style story and focus is on the sexual tension, progression, etc. Here an intern can be used. But in the case of games that focus on the story and have a very tailored story already written - I don't think it would work. Think of any of your favorite authors out there. Now imagine the story you like and follow closely suddenly getting written by someone who isn't the main author. Wouldn't work. This only applies to the main story and the girl's characters' story. Minor small events can be done by interns.

Music - can be done by interns.

coding - Yes.

TD:LR

3D rendering/animation - doable by an intern but require trust and a skilled intern.
Post work with PS - doable.
script/story - Depends on the game. Yes if it's a loose style game - No if it's a story-focused game.
Music - Yes.
coding - Yes.

 

[sillyrobot]

Unpaid internships are a modern form of slavery.

Only take one where (a) you are going to gain enough practical experience in a field too become marketable in a short period of time, (b) you can make enough contacts in the same field that finding a paid position is possible, and (c) the field pays enough to be worthwhile.

Alas, sex game creation fails all three tests.

 

[HopesGaming]

Unpaid internships are a modern form of slavery.

Only take one where (a) you are going to gain enough practical experience in a field too become marketable in a short period of time, (b) you can make enough contacts in the same field that finding a paid position is possible, and (c) the field pays enough to be worthwhile.

Alas, sex game creation fails all three tests.

Someone who wants to intern for an adult game is doing it so because he or she wants to learn how to make an adult game.
With a niche market like ours, learning from the top dogs is definitely not useless.

There are many things that I wished I knew when I started out and many things I learned from other devs back in my first days (Philly, Pink, Dev discords, etc.)

Hell, just look at all the hundreds of games that come out with atrocious renders and big game no-nos.

 

[khumak]

If you can get one I say go for it but if you're just looking to learn, IMO the easiest way to get started is to pick a game you like and just make a mod for it. Gives you a chance to get some practice at rendering, writing, and coding without having to worry about deadlines or anything. You can make mistakes with a lot less at stake.

 

[sillyrobot]

Someone who wants to intern for an adult game is doing it so because he or she wants to learn how to make an adult game.
With a niche market like ours, learning from the top dogs is definitely not useless.

There are many things that I wished I knew when I started out and many things I learned from other devs back in my first days (Philly, Pink, Dev discords, etc.)

Hell, just look at all the hundreds of games that come out with atrocious renders and big game no-nos.

You can certainly decide to donate time to a game. That won't necessarily provide any skill upgrades though as the tasks assigned will probably be aimed at your strengths rather than your weaknesses and/or desires (and almost certainly at a weakness of the dev). One is better off practicing and/or reverse-engineering available samples -- unless one is working on the business side: marketing, public relations, site setup, etc.

Also chatting with other devs is a great resource. I note many are very friendly and open here.

 

[Fliptoynk]

well... if op's an artist, let him draw via gimp/photoshop, then animate them using blender/unity. you can do 2d skeletal animation there, you can watch it how it's done at youtube.

 

[cobaia2392]

Like HopesGaming said the confiance is another matter in that.
In animation/rendering an intern could do the construction of the scene with the assets, and the style of the art is more like the assets and morphed characters no?
Like is more quick to rearrange some details of scene to make them from zero? (Like i said my knowledege in this area is limited)

The daily coexistence in the same purpose for the ones really interested is only beneficial, like some senior give me a morphed victoria for example, and at same time give tips or explanation in how to morph without the character looks like an et for example kkkkkkkkk.

Workflow in photoshop is more to delegate with a pre ideia of what you want in the scene, like position of light and filters, give some tips in the choice of that kind of effects.

It's more about polish someone's skill, make contacts and in the consequence gain an extra hand in your own jobs for a time as compensation.

 

[Fliptoynk]

well... if you're gonna animate a daz/victoria/etc assets, then you better learn how to do animations with blender/maya, and make a portfolio of your animation works by making free online gallery before you apply for internship in'ere. I'm sure they'll take you in once they notice you're good at using 3d modelers/renderers as they'll gladly cut their work half with you.

otherwise, if you wanna stick to photoshop drawing, you better show them off your skill in drawing, watch

You must be registered to see the links

, and do it. make as many portfolio as you can. I won't be surprised if a dev hires and pay you instead!

 

[Droid Productions]

It certainly can be done, just ... don't think of it as a great way to rapidly scale your output. From a company (or creator) point of view, interns have three roles.

Sometimes you need a hot body for something. Collecting forms, transcribing stuff, fetching coffee, organizing queues, astroturfing forums, etc. At that point, you don't really *care* about the quality of the intern, as long as they're not actively humping the leg of your customer.

Rent-to-Purchase agreements. A lot of professional internships start with a pre-curated list of applicants that they think might be a good long-term fit for the company. *Not* hiring an intern after 3 months is a far less traumatic experience for the team and the intern than firing a fresh grad hire after his 3 month probation, so it's a good way to try-before-you-buy. Also lets you bring in a big crop, and see which ones you like. One side-effect of that is to get decent results you need to be more structured with them than with real employees; interns that are supposed to do real work take a lot of training and feeding before they evolve.

Apprenticeship model. This is more common for small studios / single creators. You've discovered a diamond in the rough, and you want to help polish it. There's a built in assumption that at some point the diamond will go off on his or her own, or at least transition to being a master of his own that you maybe collaborate with. This used to be common in the crafts, and I guess small-scale porn game development is a craft. This is what Hope is describing when talking about 'learning from the master'. Note that this requires several things. Actual Diamond in the Rough willing to learn. Master actually willing to teach (as opposed to just extracting cheap labor). Both treating each other fairly. Sadly, unlike apprenticeships in the past masters are no longer able to just whip their apprentices, so carrots need to be deployed.

If you're a diamond in the rough (or at least a decent Zirkonian), finding the right Master to apprentice yourself to is hard, but doable. Find a creator you love the work of. Hang out on discord, see what they're like as humans, then pop the question. From the creators point of view; are you actually passionate about teaching? Are you okay with the person you teaching eventually becoming your friendly competition?

Hope also alluded to trust; obviously one of things you'd share with the apprentice would be tools, processes, models, etc. There's always a chance that I'll accidentally stumble over someone having taken the Luna custom morphs and enrolled her in a career doing hardcore porn without telling Hope, which probably wouldn't improve their day.

TL;DR: Make sure you understand what the relationship between intern/creator is before you get dragged into anything. For a creator, assuming that an intern is cheap/free labor is a misunderstanding that's likely to get expensive.

 

[Fliptoynk]

Droid Productions is your Love of Magic's linux version a 32bit?

 

[Obscure]

If I don't pay for your work, I don't have a claim on your work.

You can just hang out in EroDev. You'll soak up enough info that way talking to people.

 

[Droid Productions]

Droid Productions is your Love of Magic's linux version a 32bit?

64 bit. I don't think Unity even runs on 32bit Linux

 

[Droid Productions]

If I don't pay for your work, I don't have a claim on your work.

You can just hang out in EroDev. You'll soak up enough info that way talking to people.

Legally, that's actually a valid point. You don't have a work for hire contract without the Hire part. But Internship models usually involve a 'below market rate' exchange with the assumption that the educational side weighs up for the low salary.

 

[Fliptoynk]

64 bit. I don't think Unity even runs on 32bit Linux

I've been trying to play unity games on raspberry pi 4... so far, I've been successful with "Parabellum" from itch io

oh well... maybe if you could compile your game in an older version with support for 32bit that could work but I won't bother you

 

[moskyx]

I can't really think what would the point of an internship program in this niche. If a dev needs help, they'll look for someone who could do that work at least just as good as them, because no one would risk a quality drop or some other issues related to teamwork just to help someone to improve their skills. And, if dev needs someone, I'm sure they would be willing to pay that new partner accordingly to the job done and the project's resources (sure, if someone wants to work for free, they just do that). But the thing is that devs would not look for a beginner, they need results and as less headaches as possible, so they look for partners, not learning apprentices.

If you want to learn, technical courses/forums, reverse engineering and talks with devs are the way to go. Then do your own thing and see how it works for real. Alternatively you can try to build a team or offer yourself as collaborator to some already established devs, but don't expect an "internship" position for the reasons stated above: you must show your skills and worth beforehand.

Also, Hopes has already stated a main issue here: trust. Most Devs will think twice before losing control of their project, as those projects are usually very personal and amateurish, and creating a functional team implies a level of profesionalism (work division, copyright/money issues, comms, etc) that not everybody is willing nor capable to achieve

 

[anne O'nymous]

coding - Yes.

I disagree on this, for the same reasons you gave for the other parts.

While it's a purely technical part, it's still far to be something standardized. In order to be delegated, it would need it to have strong conventions for the naming as well as for the codding style.
Without this, every people working on the code would pass half of his time wondering, by example, what variable they have to use. And with this, any intern that don't have enough experience yet would pass half of his time looking back at the convention to correct his own style.

Then, even with those conventions, there's a difference between "luna_day6_started_kiss" and "luna_day6_kissed_first", despite both being True if Luna was the one at the origin of the kiss during day 6.
And should I talk about the difference between :

someVar += 2 if someEvent is True else 1

and

if someEvent is True:
    someVar += 2
else:
    someVar += 1

or

if someEvent is True:
    tmpStep = 2
else:
    tmpStep = 1
somVar += tmpStep

They all do the exact same thing in the end, but which one will be used depend of who will write the code. And while those examples are relatively basic, and so easy to understand, the more complex is the code, the more the way it is wrote will make the difference between understanding it at first sigh, and having a headache trying to figure what it do.

 

[HopesGaming]

I disagree on this, for the same reasons you gave for the other parts.

While it's a purely technical part, it's still far to be something standardized. In order to be delegated, it would need it to have strong conventions for the naming as well as for the codding style.
Without this, every people working on the code would pass half of his time wondering, by example, what variable they have to use. And with this, any intern that don't have enough experience yet would pass half of his time looking back at the convention to correct his own style.

Then, even with those conventions, there's a difference between "luna_day6_started_kiss" and "luna_day6_kissed_first", despite both being True if Luna was the one at the origin of the kiss during day 6.
And should I talk about the difference between :

someVar += 2 if someEvent is True else 1

and

if someEvent is True:
    someVar += 2
else:
    someVar += 1

or

if someEvent is True:
    tmpStep = 2
else:
    tmpStep = 1
somVar += tmpStep

They all do the exact same thing in the end, but which one will be used depend of who will write the code. And while those examples are relatively basic, and so easy to understand, the more complex is the code, the more the way it is wrote will make the difference between understanding it at first sigh, and having a headache trying to figure what it do.

True and I am known as someone with a messy code, ha.
But this was more on the normal VN games where the code is very minimal. In the more complex situations then it will be a bit different, true.