VN Ren'Py Echoes: The Lies We Tell Ourselves [Ep.2 Public] [Oldcat]

[Rayne]

I can tell you for a fact that most games that tried this, got major backlash. you might have had less backlash ( doubt it) if everything was left in the past where it belongs, but then you went ahead and brought the actual trash who fucked the mc's woman, right into his face in the present. thats a major rage inducing mood killer right there.
and to be honest, your previous game should be a clear warning of how NOT to use such scenes ( and or vilains). unless you forgot the shitstorm about the red head and the vilain who escaped "overseas" after trying to have another li gangraped.

you might have good intentions but presentation sometimes is way different from script to image, if I make any sense.

Of course, it's not the best option, but if the cheating scene is so important for understanding (even though it was clear before that they caused him pain), let it be as it is, since it's the past and Sara, as I understand it, is not LI, so yes, it was not very pleasant to see. Of course, Mark's appearance doesn't make the situation better, but I hope he doesn't stay in the game for long. And as I already said, MC's behavior is strange they treated him like that, and he still kept the photo and didn't even block them from his contacts to cut all ties. It's all a bit strange.
And of course, I agree that the past should remain in the past.

 

[Beast Within]

Of course, it's not the best option, but if the cheating scene is so important for understanding (even though it was clear before that they caused him pain), let it be as it is, since it's the past and Sara, as I understand it, is not LI, so yes, it was not very pleasant to see. Of course, Mark's appearance doesn't make the situation better, but I hope he doesn't stay in the game for long. And as I already said, MC's behavior is strange they treated him like that, and he still kept the photo and didn't even block them from his contacts to cut all ties. It's all a bit strange.

putting the ex's scene aside, (which will hurt the game, he cant avoid that no matter how he justifies it-most people just dont care), the bigger problem is the bull. its not in the past anymore. its now. and depending how long he will be around, you/me/ the player, will have to see and interact with him. this is what imho, will kiil the mood in general. even more than just the scene ( which lets face it, it killed the mood enough already) I hope I make sense, my english are poor.

 

[Gilber_bestram@176]

He doesn't act as a cuck in the NTR scene but he acts like one for most of the game and just when he started to get out of this depressing stuff when he had the talk with Jay and Mina and starts to seem it's over we get Mark back. Seriously I hoped we could move on from that crap. Because the dev choose to show and not tell even if you picked the not look option bringing Mark back isn't a good move.

So that the MC can overcome him, I mean running away is more coward and "cucked" than actually facing the antagonist (goddamit why am I even debate that)

 

[Ikalkeki]

I understand that Mark is "the shadow of the past" that the MC must overcome in order to become a better version of himself, but man is it not fun to watch a meek af MC having to confront his bully. Because he can't throw a punch, he's just going to take deep breaths and run away until his friends come in to support him.
Is it more realistic ? Yes. Is it awkward to watch ? Maybe. Will it not be as enjoyable as just beating his ass into a pulp ? Most definitely. Maybe MC will start taking self-defense classes, hit the gym and get some protein so he can get his revenge in a more hands-on way.

 

[LionBear]

Thanks for sharing this.

 

[Gilber_bestram@176]

I understand that Mark is "the shadow of the past" that the MC must overcome in order to become a better version of himself, but man is it not fun to watch a meek af MC having to confront his bully. Because he can't throw a punch, he's just going to take deep breaths and run away until his friends come in to support him.
Is it more realistic ? Yes. Is it awkward to watch ? Maybe. Will it not be as enjoyable as just beating his ass into a pulp ? Most definitely. Maybe MC will start taking self-defense classes, hit the gym and get some protein so he can get his revenge in a more hands-on way.

Please, Mark is the manipulative type, you can't just use force and expect he will yield. To outdo him socially is the direction I think the MC will take, I mean that's what the mask for right, the socialize charming writer. Also seem like Mark is pissed that the MC gain the scholarship and not him so become success as a playwright is better than just throwing punch

 

[Vualen]

Still no much content, but nice, indeed, good animations and sounds Looking forward for an update

 

[Ikalkeki]

I mean that's what the mask for right, the socialize charming writer.

I don't dispute this, as that will definitely be the case. I might've worded it a bit too harshly, but what I would like the MC to develop is more of a backbone by himself. I know why he's the way he is, and what it will lead to, but it is simply my personal preference for a more confident main character from the get-go. Going from meek to peak will take quite a while, hence my dissatisfaction with the current state of affairs. The future will (hopefully) prove me wrong.

 

[TreebeardTheEnt]

For what it's worth, I don't generally like NTR but this isn't that. The scene itself hit emotionally and having the MC actually open up about it was a strong choice.
The fallout at the prior school and Mark showing up immediately were missteps. You could have had a similar reason to move schools just by having the MC blow up and refuse to work with them, instead of being universally ostracized.
Similarly, Mark appearing now feels too narratively convenient and detracts from the still budding character relationships. We needed more time before he and/or Sara show back up.

On a personal note, naming the MC after yourself when the cheating ex shares a name with your cheating ex hit pretty hard.

 

[Mrsexoo3]

First of all, I can't edit this thread, so I'm not able to add the tag. And the sex scene was just a part of MC's past, not in the moment, nor the future. I'm not a fan of NTR as well, especially when it's MC getting cucked, but it's a part of the story, so I made it skippable. However, if you want to stop playing my game without giving it an actual try first, feel free to do so. I know that I can't please everyone.

Why do you need a sex scene for something that happened in the past? You could have had him getting cucked and not shown it, yet you went far and beyond and included a sex scene. Also who keeps a photo a of their cheting ex with the dude that cucked you,? bro? You cant be this pathetic.

It’s “needed for the story”? I wonder who writes the story? Lmao.

You obviously have a cuck fetish; that’s why you made a retarded wimp MC who gets cucked in this game, with a full sex scene to show his humiliation. And this is not something new, either. In that other game, you had the redhead being gangbanged and passed around while she was with the MC.

You only retconned that because people didn’t like it and the backlash was too much. That time you apologized and yet you are back at it again now . And even aside from that, how many times did you add the plot of the MC having to save those retarded girls from getting raped/molested? Lmao. You either like that, or you have very limited skills as a writer and can’t think of another way to add drama.

So you are a fan of ntr or similar cuck themes, you’ve shown it time and time again, so why not own up to it and stop trying to leech off vanilla retards?

 

[Gilber_bestram@176]

For what it's worth, I don't generally like NTR but this isn't that. The scene itself hit emotionally and having the MC actually open up about it was a strong choice.
The fallout at the prior school and Mark showing up immediately were missteps. You could have had a similar reason to move schools just by having the MC blow up and refuse to work with them, instead of being universally ostracized.
Similarly, Mark appearing now feels too narratively convenient and detracts from the still budding character relationships. We needed more time before he and/or Sara show back up.

On a personal note, naming the MC after yourself when the cheating ex shares a name with your cheating ex hit pretty hard.

Right now, doesn he has quite a backbone already. The meek MC is PRIOR to the story. Now he is confident, charming and ready to stand for himself (even though it's still a mask like he said). I don't know what kind of backbone you want more.

 

[TreebeardTheEnt]

Right now, doesn he has quite a backbone already. The meek MC is PRIOR to the story. Now he is confident, charming and ready to stand for himself (even though it's still a mask like he said). I don't know what kind of backbone you want more.

I never mentioned anything about a "backbone", not sure what you're referring to.
The MC needs to overcome his initial "mask" as the game says, and the relationships to the girls need expanded more before being challenged again by Mark, but that isn't about assertiveness or aggressiveness, but time.

 

[Ikalkeki]

I think Gilber_bestram@176 's comment was directed to my previous comment.

Continuing from there, my answer to your answer is right

(even though it's still a mask like he said)

here

Yes, that's my pet peeve. It's not a proper backbone. You can see it at the end of Episode 2 that he didn't really move past Mark. Again, that's Mark's role: shadow of the past the MC needs to overcome.
My complaint doesn't necessarily reflect some objective criticism of the narrative, just my personal preference. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[mtuytj]

I don't mind NTR being used as a plot device for the MC's past. But if it's not an NTR game there's no reason to show it or spend time making those renders? It would be just as easy to admit that it happened verbally or with inner thoughts? The only people who wouldn't skip the scene are cucks, so it just seems silly to waste time making the scene at all instead of just explaining that it happened. It's in the game now and skippable, and it's not really a big deal. Just kind of a weird decision to actually spend development time creating it.

 

[QwertySmurfy]

I do agree with the animating the scene aspect that people have brought up. Animating the cheating scene will probably end up getting this game the NTR tag. Even if the rest of the game does not use it again. It'll push people away just based on the tag.


I've played a game where the MC just says it in dialogue how he was cheated on, and they never actually show it. It was just used for narrative purposes/backstory. Which is similar in this, but this game gives you the option to see it happen. So to say that it needed to be animated in order to show how MC felt, is not necessarily the case. It can be done without showing it.

I honestly, though, don't really feel strongly towards that scene, it didn't give me the usual NTR feeling that I would get if it were an actual NTR of an LI

 

[Raziel_8]

Frankly, i don't get the overreaction because of the cheating scene.
Sara isn't a LI, we don't know her, nor do we have any attachment to her, the MC clearly isn't a voyeur or anything like that and i really doubt the dev is going for ntr (not even optional), althought the animated scene wasn't really needed.
I seriously hope there won't be some kind of redemption for her, even if it's only as friend, i do hope we can completely ruin Mark thought, he deserves the worst.
No i dea why some think she was blackmailed, she clearly enjoyed cheating on the MC, so the hoe can go croak for all i care.

 

[MagicMan753]

As I told you, it's all about MC's past. I want players to see and experience what MC witnessed and understand his pain. It's better to create the actual scene instead of telling everything through bunches of text. The fact that the scene is optional doesn't mean it was unnecessary, but I added it because I know there are people who wouldn't want to see the animation, on the other hand, there are people who would want the opposite.


That's all I can say. After all, it's your right to believe it or not.

You say its part of the past, but can it affect the future. Look, I know I am in the vast, vast minority, but I want Sara as a LI. I feel like there is more to the story, I feel like a path to forgiveness isn't often told in Avn's. And I know she isn't listed in the LI screen. But is there a chance that all.csn change. Cause like i said many already hate her, but its the same in another game where a LI cheats. I would still like to explore the possibility of forgiveness. So I actually hope you Make Sara a LI, please.

 

[LaShou23]

The constant black screens showing us how much time has passed are annoying af.

 

[ArashiNinja18]

There's no cheating tag or netorare tag. So shouldn't it just auto skip the scene where the mc found out his ex was cheating on him? None of that should even be shown at all. Also only two chapters when the story was just starting to get interesting is nasty work.

 

[XV71]

You say its part of the past, but can it affect the future. Look, I know I am in the vast, vast minority, but I want Sara as a LI. I feel like there is more to the story, I feel like a path to forgiveness isn't often told in Avn's. And I know she isn't listed in the LI screen. But is there a chance that all.csn change. Cause like i said many already hate her, but its the same in another game where a LI cheats. I would still like to explore the possibility of forgiveness. So I actually hope you Make Sara a LI, please.

There is no redeeming a cheating slut, all it would do is take away time and renders from the game and main cast of girls, what happened in the flashback is all you need to know, she cheated, got caught, regretted getting caught.