Femdom Game Mechanics

[Crooked13th]

For those that enjoy the genre, have you ever seen an actual gameplay implementation of Femdom that you liked? I struggle to think of any that wasn't a boring and linear gauge of dominance/submission, where if you're interested in femdom, the gauge will only move in that direction, thereby defeating the purpose of having a dynamic system.

I am reminded of Tales of Androgyny (which is futadom rather than femdom, but the same principle applies). And while I think that's one of the better games out there, it's d/s gauge doesn't serve a meaningful purpose, because you don't face any adversity in maxing out and maintaining either end of the spectrum.

Do you have any ideas for how to innovate in this area? What could make this mechanic more dynamic and meaningful and less of a pointless inevitability?

 

[Nutluck]

Not really because most of them consider femdom to also mean gay sissy and the two are combined. There has been a couple that did ok, but those tend not to be actual femdom games but one or two of the NPC's are femdom's. One of the better ones if With Friends like These.

As far as idea's sure but it would depend on the what the games goals are as femdom in a game can be very different. I mean is it a game where everyone in the area is into it? is it forced femdom? etc.

 

[Crooked13th]

Not really because most of them consider femdom to also mean gay sissy and the two are combined. There has been a couple that did ok, but those tend not to be actual femdom games but one or two of the NPC's are femdom's. One of the better ones if With Friends like These.

As far as idea's sure but it would depend on the what the games goals are as femdom in a game can be very different. I mean is it a game where everyone in the area is into it? is it forced femdom? etc.

What is your idea of an actual femdom game?

Hypothetically, let's say you're making your own game, and femdom is a central and unavoidable theme, how do you approach the femdom in a way that reflects a dynamic progression from normal to full submission? Including forced femdom.

 

[Nutluck]

I have never given it a ton of thought, but there was a game called Strapford which was a play on the Stepford movie. I would do something like that, where the MC is a son to a single mom and she got a new job in Strapford. In this town all the women are taught, encouraged to be femdoms, daughters raised that way etc, men and sons are brainwashed either throw pills or hypno or a combo of the two. Just like in the movie on the surface the town seems pleasant, almost to perfect, with just the occasional little sign here and there something is wrong. But as the game goes on, the MC starts getting exposed to it more and more slowly over time.

So if the thing is hypno the MC is put into a deep trance and then his subconscious is forced to watch submissive video's etc. At first he would notice his own actions being slowly effected, and others would encourage him to embrace it etc.

That is a quick and dirty outline, I would lean heavily on the movie for generic inspiration and other such movies or stories.

 

[Ophanim]

I don't really think D/s itself needs mechanics, personally. It's more something that characters, or the player, impose on a game's sexual mechanics similar to a character's personality traits. All the other mechanics need to come together to give the tone of domination and submission, although the whole 'evoking the feel of being a domme' thing is waaay harder to do in a game, I would say.

If pressed, I would say that the Dominance/Submission bar pretty much only works for switches, and even then, badly. What it otherwise works for is people who like temptation, which isn't necessarily a bdsm related thing at all. The idea of a thing getting more and more tempting can be a powerful concept. See also, corruption/sexual liberation, which are, again, not reeeally BDSM in and of itself but can be part of one's fantasies relating to it.

Part of that has to do with the public/porn perception of dominance and submission being so fucking skewed. I swear to god, some peoples' understanding is literally 'man chokes woman, woman likes it'. It's also been heavily conflated with what I would call 'rake fiction', after the character archetype of 'the rake' which is a suave, sexy, seductive man who wants to rip your bodice and take your pure, pure virginity so you'll never be clean again. This emerged, for pretty legitimate reasons, out of women's erotica in the 1800s, and has lingered in the background of public perception of BDSM ever since. At some point, the Japanese started reading these, and someone had the bright idea of inverting the dynamic, and that's how you got Monster Girl Quest, a game about rape, but tagged as 'femdom'. This then makes its way back overseas via the eroge industry, and we start making our own inspired by those, and someone makes Tales of Androgyny based on that mold,

Basically, I would say the main mechanics one would need are... some form of ability for characters to voluntarily submit themselves because of what they want, actively, and if the player is dominant, some way for them to make decisions about the ensuing scene, and probably some form of 'pleasure' vs 'too much, nope' bars for the submissive. You don't have to simulate negotiation, necessarily, though that might be fun for characterization. Also, aftercare is never shown in games, like... ever. So do that, because appropriate aftercare is a really important part of the dynamic and can be incredible for characterization. It could be cuddles, or it could be a round of Mario Kart, or really anything the characters do to relax each other afterwards.

So if anything, now that I think about it, one of the ways you could evoke the feeling of being a domme would be very similar to the way cooking/crafting minigames are often done, where you add materials at certain times, and try to make everything fit in the pot, and not let it get too hot or too cold... except the thing you're crafting is an experience.

 

[Crooked13th]

I have never given it a ton of thought, but there was a game called Strapford which was a play on the Stepford movie. I would do something like that, where the MC is a son to a single mom and she got a new job in Strapford. In this town all the women are taught, encouraged to be femdoms, daughters raised that way etc, men and sons are brainwashed either throw pills or hypno or a combo of the two. Just like in the movie on the surface the town seems pleasant, almost to perfect, with just the occasional little sign here and there something is wrong. But as the game goes on, the MC starts getting exposed to it more and more slowly over time.

So if the thing is hypno the MC is put into a deep trance and then his subconscious is forced to watch submissive video's etc. At first he would notice his own actions being slowly effected, and others would encourage him to embrace it etc.

That is a quick and dirty outline, I would lean heavily on the movie for generic inspiration and other such movies or stories.

These are interesting ideas. I am not familiar with the game or the movie though, I'll have to check them out.

I don't really think D/s itself needs mechanics, personally. It's more something that characters, or the player, impose on a game's sexual mechanics similar to a character's personality traits. All the other mechanics need to come together to give the tone of domination and submission, although the whole 'evoking the feel of being a domme' thing is waaay harder to do in a game, I would say.

If pressed, I would say that the Dominance/Submission bar pretty much only works for switches, and even then, badly. What it otherwise works for is people who like temptation, which isn't necessarily a bdsm related thing at all. The idea of a thing getting more and more tempting can be a powerful concept. See also, corruption/sexual liberation, which are, again, not reeeally BDSM in and of itself but can be part of one's fantasies relating to it.

Part of that has to do with the public/porn perception of dominance and submission being so fucking skewed. I swear to god, some peoples' understanding is literally 'man chokes woman, woman likes it'. It's also been heavily conflated with what I would call 'rake fiction', after the character archetype of 'the rake' which is a suave, sexy, seductive man who wants to rip your bodice and take your pure, pure virginity so you'll never be clean again. This emerged, for pretty legitimate reasons, out of women's erotica in the 1800s, and has lingered in the background of public perception of BDSM ever since. At some point, the Japanese started reading these, and someone had the bright idea of inverting the dynamic, and that's how you got Monster Girl Quest, a game about rape, but tagged as 'femdom'. This then makes its way back overseas via the eroge industry, and we start making our own inspired by those, and someone makes Tales of Androgyny based on that mold,

Basically, I would say the main mechanics one would need are... some form of ability for characters to voluntarily submit themselves because of what they want, actively, and if the player is dominant, some way for them to make decisions about the ensuing scene, and probably some form of 'pleasure' vs 'too much, nope' bars for the submissive. You don't have to simulate negotiation, necessarily, though that might be fun for characterization. Also, aftercare is never shown in games, like... ever. So do that, because appropriate aftercare is a really important part of the dynamic and can be incredible for characterization. It could be cuddles, or it could be a round of Mario Kart, or really anything the characters do to relax each other afterwards.

If you need magic to make people want to be spanked, please, give up on writing.

I guess the reason I am thinking about this, is because I find it somewhat boring that the dynamic itself hasn't been "gamifyed" in a fun way that I've seen before. Obviously the player can always attribute a lot of personal thoughts to the events of a game, but then, failing to add some interactivity to reflect choice is uninspired.

As you say the d/s bar mostly only serves a switch. And while the idea of temptation can be very compelling, if you're only into femdom, then wanting to be dommed goes against a lot of the femdom game tropes of being forced into femdom.

You're right, of course. There is a whole lot more to femdom than "tear shirt, rape X". Not that the two concepts can't overlap in some capacity, but it surely isn't the extent of the genre.

I do think that there is something to making femdom partially a choice. But I'd still want to gamify that somehow. Perhaps by adding certain gameplay penalties to "over submitting" so to speak. I mean, if you just submitted to every potentially dominant woman in the village, you'd be walking home naked and penniless before the evening was out. Not every domme is honest and moral.

That said, aftercare really is missing from the genre. It's the difference between, say, ToA's "femdom" and more realistic femdom. This could even be a good way to differentiate straight up emotionless rape and emotional femdom. One of those two cares about you after they orgasmed.

 

[Ophanim]

These are interesting ideas. I am not familiar with the game or the movie though, I'll have to check them out.



I guess the reason I am thinking about this, is because I find it somewhat boring that the dynamic itself hasn't been "gamifyed" in a fun way that I've seen before. Obviously the player can always attribute a lot of personal thoughts to the events of a game, but then, failing to add some interactivity to reflect choice is uninspired.

As you say the d/s bar mostly only serves a switch. And while the idea of temptation can be very compelling, if you're only into femdom, then wanting to be dommed goes against a lot of the femdom game tropes of being forced into femdom.

You're right, of course. There is a whole lot more to femdom than "tear shirt, rape X". Not that the two concepts can't overlap in some capacity, but it surely isn't the extent of the genre.

I do think that there is something to making femdom partially a choice. But I'd still want to gamify that somehow. Perhaps by adding certain gameplay penalties to "over submitting" so to speak. I mean, if you just submitted to every potentially dominant woman in the village, you'd be walking home naked and penniless before the evening was out. Not every domme is honest and moral.

That said, aftercare really is missing from the genre. It's the difference between, say, ToA's "femdom" and more realistic femdom. This could even be a good way to differentiate straight up emotionless rape and emotional femdom. One of those two cares about you after they orgasmed.

Yeah... See, I'm approaching this from the viewpoint of a woman doing the domming haha As you say, for the submissive 'over submitting' I would say the irl equivalent would be accepting any vaguely dommy person who walks through your door. It's like trusting everyone who's even vaguely nice to you. Honey, you're gonna get raped and left cuffed to a radiator :/

And I mean, the whole 'forced into femdom' thing is in itself a vaguely sexist trope about temptation and sin. Woman as the seducer, taking down weak men the only way she can. With her body. uwu . Basically, the implication is that submitting to a woman makes a man less masculine, and that she's perverting the 'natural order' in some way to do this by using her womanly wiles. It's a very ancient greek view of masc/femme interactions we inherited from them way back when.

And then Japanese gender roles come into play about who is 'meant to be' active and who is passive in the bedroom. It's the man, btw, and being passive is meant to be humiliating to their 'male pride', which is arousing as part of a kink thing. That's why cowgirl = 'femdom' in some games. Like, I've played plenty of games like this, and enjoyed scenes about men getting violated until they give in to pleasure, which is kinda hot to me too. But I also can't pretend it's not kinda icky, conceptually. No shade! A lot of kinks are based on icky stuff, and it's fine. Just... we all need to be more media literate, I think, and teach others to do the same

Edit: TL;DR: Normalize men having rape kinks, porn industry, please and thankyou <3

 

[Crooked13th]

Yeah... See, I'm approaching this from the viewpoint of a woman doing the domming haha

Oops. I did not account for that! Sadly, it's not feasible to do a game where you can both play as a the female domme or the male sub.
So I was primarily thinking from the perspective of playing as a sub male MC. But on that note, I am curious. As there aren't that many games where you get to play as the domme, can you find enjoyment in playing as the male sub, and assuming the point of view of the NPCs rather than the MC?

And I mean, the whole 'forced into femdom' thing is in itself a vaguely sexist trope about temptation and sin. Woman as the seducer, taking down weak men the only way she can. With her body. uwu . Basically, the implication is that submitting to a woman makes a man less masculine, and that she's perverting the 'natural order' in some way to do this by using her womanly wiles. It's a very ancient greek view of masc/femme interactions we inherited from them way back when.

And then Japanese gender roles come into play about who is 'meant to be' active and who is passive in the bedroom. It's the man, btw, and being passive is meant to be humiliating to their 'male pride'. Like, I've played plenty of games like this, and enjoyed scenes about men getting violated until they give in to pleasure, which is kinda hot to me too. But I also can't pretend it's not kinda icky, conceptually. No shade! A lot of kinks are based on icky stuff, and it's fine. Just... we need to be more media literate, I think

Your point about the origins and implications of the domme forcing the sub into it stands. I never even knew that the Japanese instituted that principle. It does follow, though. They are fiercely traditional. And the thought of ascribing gender roles and perverting them through d/s is definitely up their alley.

This bears some thinking. I like the idea of both sides of that femdom coin existing. In the sense of, one is femdom, and one is not necessarily that. But, can you as the player tell the difference, or is it all the same as long as you're being "dominated"? Now that's an interesting contrast, if it could be highlighted meaningfully in a game.

 

[Nutluck]

These are interesting ideas. I am not familiar with the game or the movie though, I'll have to check them out.

The movie is pretty old, the game never went far and was abandoned pretty early on so not much was done with it. But I always remember it because I felt the infleuence it used from the movie was very interesting. In the movie a couple moves to Stepford and it is mostly from what I call from the womans point of view of slowly seeing things. As she is slowly encouraged into this very submissive perfect little idea of the 50's house wife and she slowly finds out what is going on.

So that story would work best if you was going to do a male MC's slowly pushed down the femdom path whether he wanted to or not. If it was a game, you could do it so he is willing and unwilling. So you could do three paths there.
1) he gives in and is happy
2) He tries to resist but is slowly turn into the perfect little submissive boy for the femdom women
3) He manages to escape after being subjected to 2 above.

 

[Crooked13th]

The movie is pretty old, the game never went far and was abandoned pretty early on so not much was done with it. But I always remember it because I felt the infleuence it used from the movie was very interesting. In the movie a couple moves to Stepford and it is mostly from what I call from the womans point of view of slowly seeing things. As she is slowly encouraged into this very submissive perfect little idea of the 50's house wife and she slowly finds out what is going on.

So that story would work best if you was going to do a male MC's slowly pushed down the femdom path whether he wanted to or not. If it was a game, you could do it so he is willing and unwilling. So you could do three paths there.
1) he gives in and is happy
2) He tries to resist but is slowly turn into the perfect little submissive boy for the femdom women
3) He manages to escape after being subjected to 2 above.

You know, the interesting thing is, taking into account Ophanim's talking points, you could feasibly add a path for choosing to submit, and still make it work. Although that obviously depends on the context of the game and how flexible the narrative is.

 

[Nutluck]

Yeah, I mean a femdom game could be made well. I just don't think there is a lot of interest in just a femdom game. As I said virtually all of the games I see are also about gay sissy as well if not about that more so than the femdom. There is a few that are not but very few.

 

[Ophanim]

Oops. I did not account for that! Sadly, it's not feasible to do a game where you can both play as a the female domme or the male sub.
So I was primarily thinking from the perspective of playing as a sub male MC. But on that note, I am curious. As there aren't that many games where you get to play as the domme, can you find enjoyment in playing as the male sub, and assuming the point of view of the NPCs rather than the MC?

Oh, are you making a game? Is that why you're making all these question threads? :O And dw about it, a lot of people just assume everyone on here is male, though it's provably untrue. And nobody's forcing you to make a game where I can play as a domme, although it would be nice to have another one. Games for girls where you have power over your environment are so freaking rare, y'know?

As for your question, I would say I find enjoyment in the dynamic of the scene and in the man's pleasure, when it's depicted, while not really projecting myself onto either participant. I got into erotic gaming through finding MGQ when I was a teenager, and even though it was about a boy, the way it showed him panicking and trying not to give in (while kind of also loving every second) was really attractive to teenage me. So the men aren't my POV, because duh, but I'm also usually alienated by the women in these games because they're so... so much a man's idea of what women are, if that makes sense. So it's very much a quasi-voyeuristic enjoyment for me. Or maybe just living in a world where porn is aimed almost exclusively at men has warped my mind, idk.

One thing I will say about female protagonists in games, femdom or otherwise, is it's never really a woman's perspective on the scene either, speaking of. It's always 'woman seen by man', like this (I hope my handwriting is legible):

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So I generally prefer scenes where both participants are present and both their expressions are clearly shown, if it's male protagonist femdom, but will take full male POV so long as it's consistent in its framing. It's the hypocrisy of the above that makes it annoying, more than having to play as a guy. So honestly, my fave is probably when scenes are framed as further out from the action, so that both participants are visible, more like this:

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[haksaw]

is it's never really a woman's perspective on the scene either, speaking of. It's always 'woman seen by man', like this

Well, makes sense since those games aimed at men. Why would I want to look at some other guy? If you want woman's perspective play otome games aimed at girls

 

[Ophanim]

Well, makes sense since those games aimed at men. Why would I want to look at some other guy? If you want woman's perspective play otome games aimed at girls

If they made games for women like me, I would be off doing that, but they don't. You can deal with looking at a guy if I can deal with looking at a girl. Water is wet

 

[haksaw]

If they made games for women like me

Well most otome is vanilla uwu stuff, so if you're into hardcore rape and BDSM so maybe yes, you're out of luck. Blame other women who like all that sugary syrop =)

You can deal with looking at a guy if I can deal with looking at a girl.

No, girls are pretty (at least in games, lol) so it's fine to look at them. And guys are filthy creeps, down with men in games! A perfect game should have no men at all Too bad a lot of guys apparently like to look at dicks and we get so little lesbian games

But on topic I think that you don't need particular game mechanics linked to that. Actually, game mechanics linked to relationships kinda turn me off, ruining my immersion. You stop looking at characters as people and start treating them as NPCs you have to grind some metric with. Sex itself can be gamified, but then it should be some kind of turn based system, I hate realtime sexy scenes where you can't focus on it and have to concentrate on actually playing the game.

 

[Nutluck]

One thing I will say about female protagonists in games, femdom or otherwise, is it's never really a woman's perspective on the scene either, speaking of. It's always 'woman seen by man', like this (I hope my handwriting is legible):

So I generally prefer scenes where both participants are present and both their expressions are clearly shown, if it's male protagonist femdom, but will take full male POV so long as it's consistent in its framing. It's the hypocrisy of the above that makes it annoying, more than having to play as a guy. So honestly, my fave is probably when scenes are framed as further out from the action, so that both participants are visible, more like this:

None of this is on topic but I felt like replying to the above.

I agree it is better typically to be a wide shot showing everything. Of course on GL we use real porn so that is the majority of it anyways. Only time I crop the guys partially out of a image is if he looks to old for the NPC he is suppose to be.

I do try to write realisitic females as best I can, but well I am not one so it will never be that acurate. Though I do sometimes ask some of our female devs for feedback on the NPC's I write and adjust things based on their feedback.

 

[Ophanim]

None of this is on topic but I felt like replying to the above.

I agree it is better typically to be a wide shot showing everything. Of course on GL we use real porn so that is the majority of it anyways. Only time I crop the guys partially out of a image is if he looks to old for the NPC he is suppose to be.

I do try to write realisitic females as best I can, but well I am not one so it will never be that acurate. Though I do sometimes ask some of our female devs for feedback on the NPC's I write and adjust things based on their feedback.

Yeah, sorry for the off topic stuff! Haksaw's weird gatekeeping of the porn community aside (I'm not going back to otome games, fuck off lol), that was just a random thought that occured to me while talking about the on-topic stuff, because OP asked about my perspective on male protagonist femdom, and I had this intrusive thought about how Fem Protag games frame women. I never expected people to reply to that bit, tbh. It sounds like you're doing your best to write girls as authentically as you know how, and that's honestly great!

Back on topic, I actually agree with haksaw when it comes to game mechanics vs relationship writing. It's waaay too easy to lapse into grinding your submissiveness until you're 'corrupted enough' to be allowed to like being stepped on, I think. Where things like the d/s bar mechanics do shine, are in switchy turn-based battlefuck games like Monster Girl Dreams, where fetishes and submissiveness are mechanics that affect your ability to win and potentially dominate your opponent similar to elemental weaknesses, not gate off your ability to get porn to happen at all. If the smut is how people fight, then liking big asses is kind of like a weakness to fire damage, right?

You know, the interesting thing is, taking into account Ophanim's talking points, you could feasibly add a path for choosing to submit, and still make it work. Although that obviously depends on the context of the game and how flexible the narrative is.

I think it would probably be a case where you have the protagonist realize... 'actually, hey, I kind of already liked submission' and through the weird dystopia, come to understand himself and his kinks better. So kind of a reframed option #1 where it's an empowerment narrative, discovered by learning about how actual BDSM submissives behave, and how it's not necessarily a bad thing he has to repress. He then learns to accept and love himself as a submissive man rather than him 'surrendering his masculinity to the evil seductive women' in a pure #1, if that makes sense.

It wouldn't need to be a long path in a story like this, and it'd be in keeping with the themes of the Stepford Wives-esque dystopia genre to have it be ambiguous if he was empowered or just brainwashed in the end, but still frame it like actual voluntary submission. Kinda like a 'Good end?' moment

 

[Choo-choo]

Something like female led society with matriarchy vibes(!?)
male is minority(often suppressed) while most population is futa and female
male can sign voluntary servitude contract(from simple work to sexual)

time to stop being lazy ass and develop my own game more

 

[Crooked13th]

Oh, are you making a game? Is that why you're making all these question threads? :O And dw about it, a lot of people just assume everyone on here is male, though it's provably untrue. And nobody's forcing you to make a game where I can play as a domme, although it would be nice to have another one. Games for girls where you have power over your environment are so freaking rare, y'know?

I am, yes. I am in the early stages. Futadom/femdom being a central theme. Of course, I understand you weren't demanding anything, but I find it valuable to udnerstand a female perspective on these types of genres. You so rarely get to hear it in this space. So thank you for sharing.

One thing I will say about female protagonists in games, femdom or otherwise, is it's never really a woman's perspective on the scene either, speaking of. It's always 'woman seen by man', like this (I hope my handwriting is legible):

So I generally prefer scenes where both participants are present and both their expressions are clearly shown, if it's male protagonist femdom, but will take full male POV so long as it's consistent in its framing. It's the hypocrisy of the above that makes it annoying, more than having to play as a guy. So honestly, my fave is probably when scenes are framed as further out from the action, so that both participants are visible, more like this:

Now this is very interesting to me. I was thinking about that just the other day. Approaching the art portion of the game, what's the perspective? Is it pov? Is the "camera" positioned so that you're looking at MC or the NPCs more. Whose facial expressions can you see in a sex scene?

I find it comical (from your examples) that even in a female MC led game, you're seeing the persperctive of the male. Comical.. but not surprising. It's obvious that male devs made these games, and they simply don't understand their audience. Now, being that I intend for the MC to be a sub (even if I made a female MC an option), I thought it made sense to not focus too much on MC during sex scenes. Not that I would deliberately hide them or make them faceless and emotionless. But you're giving me something to think about here. I see more value in reflecting both sides better.

 

[Crooked13th]

But on topic I think that you don't need particular game mechanics linked to that. Actually, game mechanics linked to relationships kinda turn me off, ruining my immersion. You stop looking at characters as people and start treating them as NPCs you have to grind some metric with. Sex itself can be gamified, but then it should be some kind of turn based system, I hate realtime sexy scenes where you can't focus on it and have to concentrate on actually playing the game.

Back on topic, I actually agree with haksaw when it comes to game mechanics vs relationship writing. It's waaay too easy to lapse into grinding your submissiveness until you're 'corrupted enough' to be allowed to like being stepped on, I think. Where things like the d/s bar mechanics do shine, are in switchy turn-based battlefuck games like Monster Girl Dreams, where fetishes and submissiveness are mechanics that affect your ability to win and potentially dominate your opponent similar to elemental weaknesses, not gate off your ability to get porn to happen at all. If the smut is how people fight, then liking big asses is kind of like a weakness to fire damage, right?

I see your points. It's tempting to try and gamify the dynamic mechanic in a way that actually works. But as you say, it makes that aspect a little too gamey. And that would actually work in Ophanim's example with turn based games where you can dominate or be dominated. Though I am not considering that currently. So that further undermines the value of gamifying the mechanic itself.

Something like female led society with matriarchy vibes(!?)
male is minority(often suppressed) while most population is futa and female
male can sign voluntary servitude contract(from simple work to sexual)

time to stop being lazy ass and develop my own game more

Lol, are you stealing my notes? Close enough!

And yes, yes you should!