first ever renders

Chatterbox

Active Member
Game Developer
May 28, 2018
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I can't post my renders yet because I'm new here and still need a couple more posts before posting a link.

My problem is that I seem to be getting really long render times, anywhere between 3 hours up to 18 hours for one image. This is even with reducing the texture sizes, and hiding anything that is not in the scene and will not allow stray light to shine in. My system is new with a Nvidia 1080. I have a ASUS 1080 ti that will arrive tomorrow.

I've tried limiting the iterations and that helped with time, but unless I allow between 2000 to 3000 I get pixilation (sp?) really bad.

It seems that the best way I have been able to reduce render times is to render the character with noting else, but that's not much of a VN.
 

JackBeNimble

Member
May 21, 2017
140
133
Bro, I assume Daz Studio with iRay? The VERY BEST advice I can give you is to watch some beginning tutorials. I recommend you the following:

WATCH BEFORE EVERYTHING: (the above is a little outdated in terms of Daz's version, but the information here is still HUGELY applicable. It'll help you navigate around in the fuckin' autocad style interface. HUGE RECOMMEND).

NOW BEGIN HERE:
NEXT READ THIS:

THEN watch as many of these (Daz specific of course) as you can, and practice, practice, practice.
(Sickleyield)
(The WPGuru)
(Shannon Maer)

The second 2 tutorials (Now Begin... and Next Read...) from Sickleyield will likely teach you why your renders are probably going on for too long, and why you probably shouldn't reduce your max iterations like you stated you have.

Now, I'm no expert... But I really, really recommend you do the above before any actual discussion goes on. Prepare yourself a bit ahead of time, so that when you talk DAZ to others, you can understand some of the things that are said.

Last... DON'T give up. Just practice simple things. I started trying to do porn right away when I first got daz... And got so frustrated I quit for years.

Just... Get used to the interface, then practice the simple stuff... And soon, sooner than you think even maybe... You'll be making smut so hot you almost cream yourself while your not even done with the posing let along rendering it. :D

Good luck! Happy rendering, and welcome to F95 :)

EDIT: IF you are talking Poser and not Daz, then do the above, but search for Poser relevant tutorials. Start with interface videos/tutes, then 'starting with' vids/tutes, and then progress to more complex shit like lighting and render settings.
 

Chatterbox

Active Member
Game Developer
May 28, 2018
560
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JackBenNimble, you hit the nail on the head. I'm using DAZ and rendering with IRAY. Thank you for tips! I will put them to good use. My renders are actually pretty good if I let it render for hours upon hours. I have a great storyline (always been good at writing), but hopefully with this I'll be able to get something out much sooner. Much thanks!
 

JackBeNimble

Member
May 21, 2017
140
133
Yes, Sir... Please do watch and read some of those tutorials. Right off the bat, some of the major reasons Daz might be rendering in iRay forever are:

-Lots of emitter type lights. iRay fights with them. If you don't know what I mean, search Daz Emitters.

-Night scenes. iRay thrives off a LOT of light. Search out on DeviantArt "Shooting day for night" by CrissieBrown to learn some effective tips on night/dusk/overcast shots.

-You have a LOT of models in your scene. A handful of characters fully kitted with clothes and hair, a full scene model (room, island, spaceship, etc) with lots of props... Stuff that adds 'geometry' and lots of it. This makes rendering take longer... And really hurts how easy it is to move stuff in your viewport even with texture shaded mode set. There are some intermediate-skill-level things you can try to offset this, but practice the basics first. For now, try and hide any walls/ceilings that aren't in your camera shot.

-Resolution. If you are struggling on time, set your render resolution to something less than 1080p... At least while you are practicing.

-Your render settings aren't really set ... er, well? This happens to all of us. Daz has a BYZANTINE UI. Seriously, read Sicklyield's tute on 'progressive render settings'. Then read EVERYTHING YOU CAN FIND on render settings ;)

-You have quality settings ON in render settings, and your convergence rate is set to 100%. It is NOT POSSIBLE for 100% convergence to be achieved by iRay, or probably any other render engine/driver/what-have-you. I recommend no higher than 99.8 for this.

-You have quality settings ON in render settings, and your quality number is greater than 1. This setting basically tells Daz when to stop a render, because it calculates when a pixel (yes, one pixel each) is 'finished' (read: It's convergence ratio has reached the setting you put in convergence rate, above) , and increasing this value increases render times linearly because iRay is working harder to converge every. Single. Pixel. In your shot. At 1, it's 'standard' render times. At 2, it's twice as long as 1. At 3, it's thrice as long as 1, etc (or something like that... Check what Sickleyield and WPGuru have to say about this; Math and I don't get along x.x). Just know that the higher your quality settings are... The longer you'll wait for a render... But, the less fireflies you'll have. BUT. Night renders in iRay tend to have MUCH more fireflies even at higher quality levels due to (usually) not much light coming in that iRay feeds on. This is why I recommend the 'shooting day for night' tutorial above, to help with this.

There's more, of course... after a month, it's simple enough to get 'okay' at Daz. But... It's gonna take WAY more than that to get really good. Depends on how far you wanna take it.

One last thing: Even when you set Daz to render via GPU... When you are NOT rendering (i.e., you're in your viewport, adding characters, clothes, dialing those tits up to deliciously huge levels, adding that hot Golden Palace to your sexpot-in-waiting G3 or G8F), EVERYTHING is controlled by your CPU. Scene set-up. Arranging shit in your viewport. Setting up your scene in the viewport. All of this. Your GPU does not kick in until you either turn your viewport to 'iRay' (gpu kicks in now) or you hit 'render'... And even then, your CPU is what pre-loads everything in your scene into the render! Your GPU does not kick in when you hit 'render' until your CPU has written all the geometries and textures and whatnot that are in your scene, and when this is done, iRay is finally ready to render... And now and ONLY now is when your GPU takes over (during the render process, and all the way to it's end).

If you find it, make sure you set the 'optiX' option on for ALL renders you do in iRay if you have a strong video card. I might have spelled that wrong. Just search iRay Optix.

Also, and totally the last thing: if you are using multiple things with the same textures (lots of individual grass blades, a room with lots of walls with the same textures, a gang of goblins with the same skin textures face-raping some happless woman in a dungeon), then try to set your rendering to 'Memory' instead of the 'Speed' setting so many people recommend. Setting it to 'Memory' in times like this allows Daz to write textures and stuff to memory, and if they are used more than once (multiple instances of that thing), it can help to reduce render times in iRay.

Okay. That's it for me. Read, watch tutes! I need a beer and some TV (insert Al Bundy meme here xD )

Cheers, bro... Have fun!

...And you're quite welcome, brother ;)
 

ltech

Newbie
Apr 25, 2018
32
26
Placing Iray Planes behind the camera is useful for speeding up complex indoor scenes. For the most part is just getting to know lighting and render settings, still struggling with it myself.
Create a few render presets once you get decent render times. Eg(Indoor night, indoor day, outdoor dust, outdoor day, etc)
Once you get your render times down, make sure to use keyframes and image series to get multiple images out at a time.
 
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JackBeNimble

Member
May 21, 2017
140
133
Hey... Now I've got a question... What do you mean using keyframes and image scenes to get multiple images???

I'd love to hear more about this, sounds interesting!!
 

ltech

Newbie
Apr 25, 2018
32
26
Hey... Now I've got a question... What do you mean using keyframes and image scenes to get multiple images???

I'd love to hear more about this, sounds interesting!!
Sure, keyframes are not just useful for animation but can to used to batch render multiple images.
Lets say you have a scene at a park bench, plan out what you might need and maybe some you wont just in case.
frame 1: character smiles
frame 2: character flirts
frame 3: character looking to the left
frame 4: character looking to the right
etc

For this just use the timeline in daz.
This way, you can go to bed or work and when you get back you will have a bunch of images to use for your VN. Make sure to drop keyframes on every frame on objects that get altered otherwise daz will autofill the between frames.

In render settings there is a option for "Image Series" which will render each frame as a png file.
 

Jai Ho

Member
May 31, 2017
152
305
Make a comparison test. Do you have ? Grab her, just make a background of any color in the environment. Make the render size 1680 x 1200... Mine took 6 min 4 sec and I have a 1070. Yours should be similar or better. I have never made a render that took over 30 minutes to create, the vast majority not over 15 minutes to render. My DA page is in my signature as an example of things I have done.

Mei.png
 

Chatterbox

Active Member
Game Developer
May 28, 2018
560
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This is my new test render after watching some of those tutorials. Tell me what you think, and thanks again for the info. Test.jpg
 
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JackBeNimble

Member
May 21, 2017
140
133
Dude, you are getting stuff down!! I can tell you put some time into this picture. I'd say you're coming along very smoothly.

...Did you D-force her top even?!!? Those are some nice wrinkles.

There are a couple of niggles I could make...but that's true of ANY render, particularly mine q:

But the real question is... How do YOU think you're coming along?

Well done here.
 

Chatterbox

Active Member
Game Developer
May 28, 2018
560
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Thank you Jack. Once I figured out the lighting and some of the settings from those tutorials that helped me speed up the render, I think I'm getting the hang of it. I did this with 1000 iterations in about 45 min.

After I posted the picture I realized that the ball of light on the left is from my blue spotlight, so I just pulled it back a little to take it out of the frame. Also removing the emissive setting from the ceiling and using a plane was a big help with the lighting.

Please, pick it apart, there's no better way to learn.
 

JackBeNimble

Member
May 21, 2017
140
133
If your spotlights or cameras are causing white or black orbs in your scene, select them in the scene tab. Find a setting named "render emitter" (I think its in parameters but can't recall) and set this to off; if I recall right, this does not draw your camera/light in the scene (causing that light-splosion) but still allows it to give light. Note: simply dialing its cutout opacity to zero in its surfaces tab can work too...but kills its lighting as well as its mesh in the render, but you can cheat that. Set the opacity to like .00001 or something instead of 0. Now the mesh model of the light is effectively invisible in the render, bit it still adds light.

I know you went for a full scene here: but do practice expressions and posing.

Her neck-bend appears awkward to me. I propose not bending the neck as much, but selecting (with the arrow shaped select tool) the different parts of her upper torso, and bending them slightly (individually) in the neck bend direction, in addition to a somewhat slighter neck bend. I usually prefer poses where its easy to tell that a few of the neighboring body parts have been bent, twisted or whatnot in a group together instead of one bone twisted like a motherfucker.

Even consider getting a few expression packs. Doing expressions...well... Is tough. I'm not so great at them...because how the neck advice above tends to work... I think they look best with lots of neighboring nodes moving together. I use packs for this reason. But, expressions really bring a scene to life...even a 1 character scene. Remember...its not only your text telling the story here!

I usually pose my characters OUT OF SCENE...as the viewport can slow to a crawl the more geometry that it has in it. Save your posed character in its own scene, then merge it into the "room" scene or whatever after you posed it.

Your lighting looks great to me, but I'm a n00b. I don't see any shadows. As its an inside shot, this is more difficult than I know how to talk about. Please search indoor lighting tips...and post em here please and thank you ;)

Your frosted glass on the stairwell is completely hiding a part of one of the lamps. IM BEING SUPER PICKY HERE; THIS AINT A BIG DEAL, but it can be corrected though I think its tough. I'd suggest not worrying, unless you want to learn. I read that pushing light through windows is hard; through frosted glass, even harder. Again, I can't help here...I'm sorry.

Other than my penny-anny bullshit, in my opinion, this is fine work. Congradulations.
 

ltech

Newbie
Apr 25, 2018
32
26
That's pretty good.
Remember for a VN there has to be space for text at the bottom of the screen.
Another thing to note which can speed up renders is that for a scene like this you can use the background and foreground method. Render the background once, then render the character with no background in a variety of poses.
 
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JackBeNimble

Member
May 21, 2017
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@iTECH , that's some great, practical VN advice! Love the back/fore ground idea. I'm imagining only rendering the background once, then using game code to overlay characters in different poses?

Also, would you recommend moving the character farther back in this scene, to make space for the text? How do you do close-ups in a VN?

Just curious myself.
 

Chatterbox

Active Member
Game Developer
May 28, 2018
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Thanks for the advice Jack. I'll learn and try anything that makes a scene better.

As for the dforce on the shirt. The shirt came with dforce already, and I have a pack called "Fit Control" I used the morphs to change up the wrinkles.

I wish I could find some good tutorials on indoor lighting. It seems that any tutorial that find on light only deals with outdoor stuff.
 
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Chatterbox

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Game Developer
May 28, 2018
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Itech,

That seems like a good idea, but how do you do that and get the lighting to match? I could see that on outdoor scenes, but if I render the scene and then the character by herself, would she not be exposed to outdoor type lighting?
 
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JackBeNimble

Member
May 21, 2017
140
133
I know they are out there...try searching or even outright asking on deviantart. The only indoor-specific help I can think of atm is this talk about "light portal" use, straight from NVidia:



This talks about setting a special light pane outside a window in a scene, that's set up to tell iRay to focus outside environmental dome lighting to focus lighting on the portal to drag lights into the indoors, and to not waste light calculations outside too much. I'm dying to try it, but I gotta Fuckin work this weekend XD

Not really applicable to this one scene as there's no window tho x.x

Also comb the daz forums themselves and ask questions:)