Game developers are kinda exploiting people

[jeash]

I know most of these games are free and supporting them on patreon is optional but it still seems like there's no plan for ever finishing some of the most popular games. they are afraid of finishing them and losing their patreons, so they basically wanna drag them for years until they themselves get tired. there's a difference between an unfinished game and a game that puts more and more unfinished content every other update while the old content is still not finished.
if they want to make a game that gets updates forever, that's cool but be transparent about it and don't put "WIP" everywhere. if they really wanna do that it should be a finished product in the first place that gets additional content and bug fixes each update. and that additional content shouldn't be just a tease WIP either. everything should be working each update unless there are bugs.
IMO people need to tone down the support for some of these unfinished games unless the devs give a clear plan on how and when the game will be finished.

 

[215303j]

Definately not true. There are plenty games that have been completed, and several devs who have done several consecutive projects without losing patreons.

https://f95zone.to/forums/games.2/?prefix_id=18

 

[Karnon254332]

I know most of these games are free and supporting them on patreon is optional but it still seems like there's no plan for ever finishing some of the most popular games. they are afraid of finishing them and losing their patreons, so they basically wanna drag them for years until they themselves get tired. there's a difference between an unfinished game and a game that puts more and more unfinished content every other update while the old content is still not finished.
if they want to make a game that gets updates forever, that's cool but be transparent about it and don't put "WIP" everywhere. if they really wanna do that it should be a finished product in the first place that gets additional content and bug fixes each update. and that additional content shouldn't be just a tease WIP either. everything should be working each update unless there are bugs.
IMO people need to tone down the support for some of these unfinished games unless the devs give a clear plan on how and when the game will be finished.

These are fair points, but the toughest part would be differentiating the unfinished games where devs have a clear timeline for game development from those where devs are dragging thing out.

As a player who once waited half a year for a game to update only to find it abandoned (damn you, Our Fate for wasting my time and money), being exploited by a developer feels like a betrayal. However, I also played a game where the devs took their time in working on updates and the new content felt worth it (quite telling considering it's the first game ever developed by its devs). Devs who work on Treasure of Nadia also have somewhat consistent updates, so that's nice. As Winterfire has so eloquently pointed out, plans change according to real life, so it would be rash to just categorize a game as "promising", "may be abandoned" or "pointlessly dragged out". I guess in the end, it's more of a matter of luck and being observant.

As for technical issues like bugs and stuff, I'm personally fine with them unless they seriously affect my experience or cause problems for my computer. After all, everyone makes mistakes, so expecting everything to go right immediately after a release or an update would be unrealistic and unfair. Surely the money and feedback will be helpful, since they are technically unfinished commercial products.

Alternatively, if you see a game, don't invest too much, too soon and wait while occasionally checking for updates and devs' Patreon posts. Wait until there's enough content to play with and if the devs seem promising, make your choice in whether to become a patron or not. Ultimately, it's more about being wise when you choose to invest money on game developers rather than toning it down together.

This is Karnon, a self-righteous fapper, signing off.

 

[Winterfire]

IMO people need to tone down the support for some of these unfinished games unless the devs give a clear plan on how and when the game will be finished.

This shows you have no idea of how things work. There is no way you can do that without making false promises.

Even if you were really good at planning things out, this type of game development will scale unless you totally close off polls/feedback from other people, supporters included, which would be counterproductive.

 

[anne O'nymous]

there's a difference between an unfinished game and a game that puts more and more unfinished content every other update while the old content is still not finished.

Generally it's easy to spot those games. The plot is totally inconsistent and each time you reach the end of a supposed narrative arc, one magically appear out of nowhere. Or there's no plot at all, just a bunch of scenes making no sense.

if they want to make a game that gets updates forever, that's cool but be transparent about it and don't put "WIP" everywhere.

I fail to see why a game that will have updates forever can't be defined as Work In Progress ; well, perhaps Work In Eternal Progress, but that's all.

if they really wanna do that it should be a finished product in the first place that gets additional content and bug fixes each update.

How can a game be both finished and still need planned additional content ?
And obviously I don't talk about the need to fund the game, because yes, it have a cost.

everything should be working each update unless there are bugs.

Which is the case for most of the games.
Globally speaking, each updates is working, consistent, and suffice to itself. This in the exact same way that a tv shows by episode is consistent and suffice to itself.

IMO people need to tone down the support for some of these unfinished games unless the devs give a clear plan on how and when the game will be finished.

If an author tell me how his game will finish, then I'll probably not play it. What is the interest to follow a story, when you already know the end ?
As for the "when", it's something different. Whatever how detailed is the script of your story, the game being made over at least many months, the story will evolve in your head. You'll add scenes that you didn't thought about before, remove scenes that finally make no sense, and so on.
And I don't even talk about the fact that the vast majority of them have a life and job, doing this on their free time, when they have free time.

 

[polywog]

Alfred Hitchcock, in his 1950s series - Alfred Hitchcock Presents, would sort of mock the process of making a television series, and even insult the advertisers. Fans of the show were annoyed by commercial advertising, and he knew that. Obviously those sponsors kept paying, for years, despite his jabs, because they were getting something out of the arrangement.

Your average patron is giving a few dollars, here and there, supporting things that they like... they wouldn't be doing it, if they weren't getting some enjoyment out of it. Your second tier patrons are getting something out of it for sure, these are pirates, who are giving you a few dollars a month, and turning around and uploading your game on their website, and making big bucks off of advertising, and premium file host downloads. Who's exploiting who? The top tier supporters are not individuals, they are groups with deep pockets, that have an agenda. These organizations get millions in funding, and they dish it out to causes that they support. If your game has x, y, or z in it, they will throw money at you to support your game, because it is in line with their agenda. They wouldn't be doing that, if they didn't think it served their purposes. So again, who is exploiting who?

I'm certainly not supporting any causes that I don't believe in, or being taken advantage of in any way. The victims are the devs, that are having 5-50% of their money taken from them by sites like Patreon.

 

[jeash]

Definately not true. There are plenty games that have been completed, and several devs who have done several consecutive projects without losing patreons.

https://f95zone.to/forums/games.2/?prefix_id=18

I said "some of the most popular games" but my wording could still be better.
when I said "they are afraid of finishing them and losing their patreons, so they basically wanna drag them for years until they themselves get tired." I didn't want to claim that all devs do this and I know exactly what their intentions are. obviously I don't know but to me, it seems like this is the case.

I fail to see why a game that will have updates forever can't be defined as Work In Progress ; well, perhaps Work In Eternal Progress, but that's all.


How can a game be both finished and still need planned additional content ?
And obviously I don't talk about the need to fund the game, because yes, it have a cost.

MOBA's or any other f2p game for that matter release a game, and then do updates to add new content (chars, etc.). the new characters that get introduced into the game aren't WIP. the game itself isn't considered as an unfinished game and gets updated forever.
what we have right now is a bunch of unfinished games with years of unfinished main story that get unfinished side characters with each update. basically this but goes forever:

Which is the case for most of the games.
Globally speaking, each updates is working, consistent, and suffice to itself. This in the exact same way that a tv shows by episode is consistent and suffice to itself.


If an author tell me how his game will finish, then I'll probably not play it. What is the interest to follow a story, when you already know the end ?
As for the "when", it's something different. Whatever how detailed is the script of your story, the game being made over at least many months, the story will evolve in your head. You'll add scenes that you didn't thought about before, remove scenes that finally make no sense, and so on.
And I don't even talk about the fact that the vast majority of them have a life and job, doing this on their free time, when they have free time.

I think you're more talking about day by day VMs while I was more talking about more sandboxish games, I don't play VMs enough to form an opinion about their development process.
maybe VMs can be played like a tv show, but an unfinished non-VM game is basically beta until main story gets finished, then they can do as many side quests and characters and expansions as they want.
right now these games all end without a closure (before they get completed), if you're invested in the story you'd have to wait for a long time (sometimes years) before it gets a closure. this gives an advantage to the devs because the people who didn't give up and move on with other things will follow them for years until they get their closure from the story.
devs can definitely plan and roughly give a time for when they get finished, that's how the whole programming industry works. if their plans suddenly change their deadline changes too. they can still drag projects like this but its a lot more clear why it's taking them too long. for artistic stuff that needs inspiration (writing, coming up with the art style, music, etc.) is a different story. but these things either should be done before starting the project or get worked on at the same time as other time manageable stuff or be delayed until after the deadline if its not essential.

Alfred Hitchcock, in his 1950s series - Alfred Hitchcock Presents, would sort of mock the process of making a television series, and even insult the advertisers. Fans of the show were annoyed by commercial advertising, and he knew that. Obviously those sponsors kept paying, for years, despite his jabs, because they were getting something out of the arrangement.

Your average patron is giving a few dollars, here and there, supporting things that they like... they wouldn't be doing it, if they weren't getting some enjoyment out of it. Your second tier patrons are getting something out of it for sure, these are pirates, who are giving you a few dollars a month, and turning around and uploading your game on their website, and making big bucks off of advertising, and premium file host downloads. Who's exploiting who? The top tier supporters are not individuals, they are groups with deep pockets, that have an agenda. These organizations get millions in funding, and they dish it out to causes that they support. If your game has x, y, or z in it, they will throw money at you to support your game, because it is in line with their agenda. They wouldn't be doing that, if they didn't think it served their purposes. So again, who is exploiting who?

I'm certainly not supporting any causes that I don't believe in, or being taken advantage of in any way. The victims are the devs, that are having 5-50% of their money taken from them by sites like Patreon.
View attachment 676422

what I'm suggesting here is for the good of players and for the quality of the games themselves. I can't force my standards on people but supporters need to have a few standards otherwise things will not get better. I'm just trying to suggest people to expect some minimal things from the games they support. maybe some people just haven't thought about how shitty things are.
if devs are getting screwed over, it doesn't give them an excuse to do this because this is not related. or are you suggesting that because they are getting screwed over its ok for them to do all this?
maybe `exploit` wasn't a good choice of word on my end.

 

[OsamiWorks]

I think a lot of people start off with good intentions and deviate for a lot of reasons, like I think yandere dev started off wanting to finish that game but now he's a joke for never improving, making poor choices, and never actually working on his game. I do think some dev's are afraid that their next idea won't be any good and drag things out.

IMO people need to tone down the support for some of these unfinished games unless the devs give a clear plan on how and when the game will be finished.

MOBA's or any other f2p game for that matter release a game, and then do updates to add new content (chars, etc.). the new characters that get introduced into the game aren't WIP. the game itself isn't considered as an unfinished game and gets updated forever.
what we have right now is a bunch of unfinished games with years of unfinished main story that get unfinished side characters with each update. basically this but goes forever:

You're getting into a whole other area. F2P games are meant to be multiplayer, using scrum to develop their games. For individuals on here making stand alone content, a lot of concepts don't apply. You're telling creators to abandon the stories they love in excange for a modular less cohesive piece of work. The people making games here are individuals doing it as a hobby and are likely focusing on their story or art. If you don't like the way other games are made, make one youself and show everyone why your ideas work and what category of games it applies to.

The dev's on patreon learn to do something, publish it and keep learning. Game development is expensive and it costs a lot to get creative cloud, unity pro, zbrush, replacement nibs, and various other expenses for it. No one is quitting their day job to help you get off and dev's on patreon that are quitting their day job at 2000$ per month are likely lying to you unless they live in an exception outside of North America/Europe. Creators don't have plans because planning out the entirety of a project and project scheduling is a skillset itself. You are always free to not support them, unsubscribe, and pirate their games if you don't like what they make but still want to play it.

 

[polywog]

 

[anne O'nymous]

I think you're more talking about day by day VMs while I was more talking about more sandboxish games, I don't play VMs enough to form an opinion about their development process.

What do you call sandboxish games exactly ? Is Milfy City a sandboxish game for you ? And The DeLuca Family ?
I mean, there's a reason why they have the Visual Novel prefix, but they also are kind of sandbox games, especially Hopes' one. So, I wonder what games you put behind this word.

this gives an advantage to the devs because the people who didn't give up and move on with other things will follow them for years until they get their closure from the story.

Oh, really ? And what advantage exactly ?
You are a grown adult (you need to in order to be here), therefore you are old enough to decide by yourself if you want to support a dev or not. And if at one time you feel that you don't have what you "pay for" (relatively speaking), then you can just stop pledging him.
If the game make you so addicted that you need to continue pledging to be sure that you'll not miss the next update and be able to play it right the instant it's released, then the dev did his job correctly and deserve your money, dot.
It's not more complicated than this.

devs can definitely plan and roughly give a time for when they get finished, that's how the whole programming industry works.

Yeah, it's not like most of the AAA games never meet their deadlines... Oh, wait, they did.
[EDIT:meet/miss ? too much negations mess with my brain : They aren't released at the expected time.]
I don't know for which programming company you works, but if you never had to stay late at works to meet the deadline, then stay there whatever it can cost you. It's both science and magic, and it's not exceptional that everything works fine, until you put all the pieces together and broke everything.

I don't say that it's impossible to plan and effectively meet the deadline in the programming industry, but it's far to be as easy as you say. Especially when the dev works alone and can do it only on his free time ; which is the case of the vast majority of adult games devs.

for artistic stuff that needs inspiration (writing, coming up with the art style, music, etc.) is a different story.

You understand that it's roughly 90% of the works in most of the games available here, right ?

what I'm suggesting here is for the good of players and for the quality of the games themselves.

I stop you right now, the result would be the exact opposite to what you wrote.
Taking all the time you need is what make the difference between a game like Heavy Five, where almost everything is tweaked to meet the artistic vision of the author, and a game that, every two weeks, throw CGs right out of the box without care for the lighting and realism of the scene.
It's also what make the difference between a game full of subtle bugs that will never break the game, but will also never make it act as intended, and one with neat code that works just perfectly fine.

Quality need time, and a time that can't be estimated beforehand. It's when you'll be testing the code, that you'll know if it works correctly or not. It's when you'll be facing the rendered CG that you'll see if it really looks like expected, or if you have to redo everything.
If you don't take all the time you need, whatever it mean for the deadline, they you'll just do average works. And there's already more than enough average works like this...

maybe some people just haven't thought about how shitty things are.

Or maybe you don't know how complicated it is to make a quality game when you are alone and have a job ; which, I repeat, is the case for most of the devs.

 

[Zippity]

I know most of these games are free and supporting them on patreon is optional but it still seems like there's no plan for ever finishing some of the most popular games. they are afraid of finishing them and losing their patreons, so they basically wanna drag them for years until they themselves get tired. there's a difference between an unfinished game and a game that puts more and more unfinished content every other update while the old content is still not finished.
if they want to make a game that gets updates forever, that's cool but be transparent about it and don't put "WIP" everywhere. if they really wanna do that it should be a finished product in the first place that gets additional content and bug fixes each update. and that additional content shouldn't be just a tease WIP either. everything should be working each update unless there are bugs.
IMO people need to tone down the support for some of these unfinished games unless the devs give a clear plan on how and when the game will be finished.

Yes, there are some developers that do milk their donating patrons for all they can get, either through overly lengthy development times using various excuses, or through moments of no communication for a month or two with the excuse that something came up (these excuses really irk my chain because sites like Patreon allow the developers to temporarily pause subscriptions for brief periods of time for this very purpose when developers are on vacation or experiencing real life issues that take them away from development for lengthy periods of time, and yet I only ever see a handful of developers ever using that function when these pauses in development occur), and the list goes on... And I know that these sorts of things occur more often then people realize... But, on the other hand it's not something that occurs a majority of the time... And what's sometimes very difficult to determine, is who is doing it and how often they are doing it... People are sneaky...

Now, all that being said... As this is a primarily Hobby driven market of developers, most of which are doing this stuff on the side, it's no wonder there is such a high variance in development time... Add to all of that, the fact that in many cases the developers may not have the skill and/or money to invest in short development times via hiring others to do some of the work, or having to take extra time to add in additional features such as animation, navigation windows, and just the complexity of ensuring continuity when a VN/Game has varying story paths (that in and of itself is very hard to do correctly as I've seen plenty out there where it hasn't been done right and either continuity is shot to hell or the story telling just gets confusing)... The rendering time alone, depending on the Computer Hardware being used, can take up to several hours per image (and that doesn't even take into account the time it took to setup the image in the first place)... And then what happens when it messes up or turns out it isn't working right for the story and needs to be adjusted or redone entirely... That is a lot of time that needs to be invested in just the resources being used with in the VN/Game, let alone the time investment to adding it into the Engine properly... And once again, all this is being done as a side to family life, perhaps a real full time job, school, and the list goes on...

Now, there are some development Teams out there that are capable of producing content faster, but I've also seen them take just as long as one-person development, all because as a team they are putting out a more well polished and perhaps a more complex VN/Game that requires more time investment...

Do you know how long it takes to develop a normal game, and not even Triple-A? It can take several years from ground up, plus all the testing that needs to be done, and the list goes on... Look how long many of these Early Access normal games there are and how long they sometimes take... Heck, not that I ever wanna play it, look how long Star Citizen has been in development and they are making serious money off of early access purchases...

So, for me, as long as the developer is on the up-and-up, communicates regularly with all it's fans (not just the minority of donating ones), is honest in how they handle donations when development is being paused, doesn't allow too much outside influence to effect the product being developed as it develops, and puts out quality stuff with decent quantity when they do release updates, i'm fine with a lengthy development time... I have a tendency to wait a long while for a product I think is initially good and promising, and return to it months or a year+ down the line to see how it's doing...

There is an old saying, "Buyer Beware"... I think it should be "Buyer Be Aware" of how development is progressing when subscription donating to a project over a lengthy development time... Pay attention to communications from the developer, behavior of the developer, professionalism of the developer, is the quality of content updates going up or down or staying the same as what you expected when first beginning to donate, do they pause donations when pausing development (like an honest developer should), and the list goes on... Do not be blinded by your infatuation, desire, or hope with what the developer has put out in the past or present, and let it cloud your judgement as to if the developer is truly worthy of the constant flow of cash you are throwing their direction/s... Pay attention for developers that are getting lazy as they start getting larger amounts of monthly sub money... Does a developer decide a year or so into development to suddenly abandon that version of the product for a different engine and starts from scratch, taking just as long if not longer? Does the developer suddenly split their time between multiple projects, and in essence doubling or tripling development time unnecessarily, perhaps just to prolong the time to receive donations? Take all these kinds of things into consideration when deciding if a developer is worthy of long term donations and so on...

One other thing to be mindful of, there are some developers who are banking on the fact, and it has been proven that over lengthy periods of time, people sometimes forget they are even subscribed to stuff (even more so when the amounts are small), at all... It's personally why I hate sites like Patreon that do not offer multiple donation methods... I believe all these sites should offer up options like One-Time Donations, Limited Length Subscriptions, as well as normal Subscription... That really was the biggest pull of sites like Patreon, because they only offer Subscription based donations, which as I said people have a tendency to forget until perhaps months later or maybe even longer...

I would not point the finger at all the developers out there... Yes there are bad apples, and they sometimes make all the honest ones look bad... Just be cautious, pay attention, and decide for yourself if donating is something you want to do or keep doing... If you think a developer is unnecessarily dragging out development, on purpose, then don't donate and perhaps say something or maybe even report them... The ball is in your court...

Zip

 

[215303j]

I said "some of the most popular games" but my wording could still be better.
when I said "they are afraid of finishing them and losing their patreons, so they basically wanna drag them for years until they themselves get tired." I didn't want to claim that all devs do this and I know exactly what their intentions are. obviously I don't know but to me, it seems like this is the case.

I kind of get what you are saying, but you need to understand the realities of Patreon-funded game development.

Most devs are one-man shows. Most do it in their spare time, some try to do it full-time. Those who do it in their spare time, may get bored, fed up or simply stuff happens in peoples lives. Those who do it full-time may decide that it's not worth it, or get a better job offer, and quit.

But the reality of Patreon is, that you are supporting a developer month-by-month. You are supporting that he can, or is motivated to, continue working on the project. YOU ARE NEVER PAYING FOR A FINISHED GAME!!!! Sorry for the caps but it's something that's difficult to understand but very important.

Of course, you may think that, once a dev has actually finished a game, he may be rewarded by his supporters because he's proven to be reliable. But while I have not studied whether that's true or not, the highest earners on Patreon are in fact devs which did not finish a game. Why they can convince such amounts of people to give them money, I have no clue at all. Most of the games which are made by such devs aren't even that fantastic. But that's just my opinion.

 

[jeash]

yeah you guys are right

 

[j4yj4m]

But while I have not studied whether that's true or not, the highest earners on Patreon are in fact devs which did not finish a game. Why they can convince such amounts of people to give them money, I have no clue at all.

I think it's important to see that there's little value in finishing a game just to have it finished. I know quite a few games which got a rushed ending that actually devalued the whole game.

Sure, having a decent, finished game helps to gain trust, but as you say, what matters is the current content. If patreons are happy with the updates they get, they'll give money.

I mean, it may just be me, but I rather prefer larger games with a lot of content than smaller ones which end way too soon.

 

[khumak]

I don't really see an issue here. If you find a game that you like well enough to support financially then you're getting something you want for your money. If at some point you no longer find the product worth it then stop supporting them. Problem solved. Keep in mind though that the amount of support devs do get is probably going to play some part in how much time and effort they're willing to put in.

A dev might be gung ho about his project at first but if he only manages to bring in say $500 a month from fans then it wouldn't be that surprising if he decided that either he's not good enough at it for it to be worth it or that his own interests just don't line up with what fans want. A dev in that situation will probably wind up abandoning his game at some point unless support climbs to something that would justify putting hundreds or thousands of hours into it.

Of the devs who are relatively successful as far as Patreon/Subscribstar subs, the only trend I see that really matches what you're talking about are the ones that really string you along adding incrementally to whatever grind is already in the game and never seem to let you close the deal with any of the main characters.

Generally this sort of game makes it obvious from the beginning that each update is going to let you see just a little bit more but you never get to close the deal with whoever the more popular characters are. I find those games frustrating and a waste of time personally but some of them are popular.

 

[Ark Thompson]

Felt like giving my two cents. While awkwardly said, I have to admit I agree with the general idea of the OP. But it's nothing new. Anyone slightly aware of Dragon Ball knows that the story was supposed to end at the end of Freezer arc. But due to the success, Toriyama was forced to keep up the story. Something is bound to be stretched if it grosses money. It's the same thing with Star Wars, and it's the same things with high-earning projects on Patreon.

Now if patrons supporting such projects are happy to get the content they get for the time they waited, I really don't see why the concerned devs should change their marketing plans. It's like calling out McDonald's for making us fat. No one forces you to go there...

Now, does it justifies the ratio of time waited vs game content of some projects? That's another highly debatable question I'm not gonna talk about. Mainly because even if it can be roughly analyzed subjectively by game developers, patrons are seeing that with a more subjective view (it's not a criticism, it's normal. They're not game developpers.) And that's a perfect transition for my small next remark:

The rendering time alone, depending on the Computer Hardware being used, can take up to several hours per image (and that doesn't even take into account the time it took to setup the image in the first place)... And then what happens when it messes up or turns out it isn't working right for the story and needs to be adjusted or redone entirely... That is a lot of time that needs to be invested in just the resources being used with in the VN/Game, let alone the time investment to adding it into the Engine properly

That argument is invalid. Posing takes time. When you do it, you can't do anything else. Rendering sure takes long. But as long as you're not rendering on your CPU (which is probably something no one does), it's totally possible to work while the renders are operating (no matter how complexe they are.) So render time doesn't count. As for messed up renders, thankfully you don't need to wait for a render to be finished to see if something's wrong (especially since you can now have a real time Iray preview without even launching a rendering.) Usually, after the 3rd or 4th refreshment of the pic, you'll see right away if something's wrong, allowing you to cancel the render, correct the problem and relaunch it.

It's personally why I hate sites like Patreon that do not offer multiple donation methods... I believe all these sites should offer up options like One-Time Donations, Limited Length Subscriptions, as well as normal Subscription... That really was the biggest pull of sites like Patreon, because they only offer Subscription based donations, which as I said people have a tendency to forget until perhaps months later or maybe even longer...

People can hardly "forget" about their subscription when it's done within the same day. Just because Patreon doesn't have a "one-time donation" button doesn't mean you can't use it that way. I have roughly 50 new Patrons per month with maybe 5 real new ones and 5 real leaving ones. And on the 40 left, they're people paying, taking the games, and unpledging right away. They don't need a button to use Patreon as a shop...

 

[215303j]

Sure, having a decent, finished game helps to gain trust, but as you say, what matters is the current content. If patreons are happy with the updates they get, they'll give money.

I don't really see an issue here. If you find a game that you like well enough to support financially then you're getting something you want for your money. If at some point you no longer find the product worth it then stop supporting them. Problem solved. Keep in mind though that the amount of support devs do get is probably going to play some part in how much time and effort they're willing to put in.

Good points. In the end, it's up to the patrons to support or not. I find that it is hard to predict, although the attitude of the dev plays a very important part. Patreon is about people wanting to give you money. Not about buying something. What makes people want to give you money? A number of things, but the actual quality of the game is just a part of it, and possibly not the most important part. More important is probably that people want to see the story continued (thus the sometimes ridiculously slow burn) or just like the dev on a personal level.

 

[j4yj4m]

Felt like giving my two cents. While awkwardly said, I have to admit I agree with the general idea of the OP. But it's nothing new. Anyone slightly aware of Dragon Ball knows that the story was supposed to end at the end of Freezer arc. But due to the success, Toriyama was forced to keep up the story. Something is bound to be stretched if it grosses money. It's the same thing with Star Wars, and it's the same things with high-earning projects on Patreon.

Now if patrons supporting such projects are happy to get the content they get for the time they waited, I really don't see why the concerned devs should change their marketing plans. It's like calling out McDonald's for making us fat. No one forces you to go there...

I'd actually argue that it's mutally benefical for devs and patreons if they continue working on those games. I mean, sure, in both Dragon Ball's and Star Wars' case one can ask whether absolutely everything that happened was necessary, yet, overall the content is really great and it took ages until both features somewhat overstayed their welcome. The same can be said for quite a few games, where I'd personally be happy if the dev simply continues to add content as long as it makes sense and fits the game. Sure, it'll be over at some point but I'm always sad when a game ends way before it has reached the potential it could have had.

The question that should always be asked is, what people would actually prefer: A new game or more content for the old one?

I know it's not that easy for some devs to stay motivated and the urge often arises to start something new, yet, patreons may see that differently.

 

[215303j]

if the dev simply continues to add content as long as it makes sense and fits the game. Sure, it'll be over at some point but I'm always sad when a game ends way before it has reached the potential it could have had.

The question that should always be asked is, what people would actually prefer: A new game or more content for the old one?

I fear you end up with a soap opera kind of situation.

Specifically related to porn games: I do think there are certain key events which are special and afterwards, a story does lose some of it's interest. The first time the MC and the LI have sex is special, especially if the way to that was kind of long. The second time, less special. After 5 times, it becomes a bit of a drag. So, then comes anal, threesomes whatever. But again, the first time is special, the 5th time a drag. After a while, a story has run it's course. In a soap opera, you can introduce new characters, new relationships (including NTR) but in a porn story, adding new characters may not help because people were invested in the old ones. And better not to start talking about NTR

If you want an example, have a look in the DMD thread.

 

[M$hot]

How often has a passionate, lustful, fantastic relationship fizzled out within a year? Not for any of you personally (although feel free to answer) but worldwide? That which tickled your fancy may stop tickling your fancy at some point. For a Patron that may mean bailing on a game, for a dev that might mean bailing on a game. Sometimes the relationship burned down so spectecularly that you're not interested in a new relationship at all. So keep your game going, grit your teeth, add uninspired content you have no fun making, so there's food on your plate. You no longer like the girl but you moved in together and the fighting and hassle to get her out just doesn't seem worth it.
Perhaps you're aware the relationship is not meant to last longer than 3 months, so it's fiery, passionate and then it's ended, perhaps before all the goodness has been experienced, and you hop to a new relationship.

My point is, devs have their reasons as patrons have their reasons. And some devs only really have 1 game idea, and rather than remaking the game they made before, they keep bolting stuff onto the one idea they had. I don't think it's exploitation, it's just that the progression of time forever changes things. Some games to me are like old friends, we used to spend a bunch of time together, now we barely remember one anothers name.

To the point Thialf made right above me here, eventually a story IS over. You can add elements, even find ways to reboot a game (You fuck the mayors son, mayor is ashamed his son is gay, decides to kill your whole family and all your friends, anybody that you may have told about it. So you flee to a new town, and *2 years later* the story continues with you trying to find new holes to fill) but eventually an end needs to be reached. Nobody wants their game to be soured by the ending being shit (Yes Game of Thrones/Dexter/LOST, I'm looking at you) but I can sympathize with people riding a horse too long, on the other side you have Firefly and Whiskey Cavalier. Plenty of interesting directions the story could have gone yet killed in it's youth. It's all a balancing act and the balance shifts as time goes on.

Sorry, this was more a rant than a comment, but it came out in one typing session, so I guess this is how I feel about it. Lol, whoops.