VN Ren'Py Game idea I want to make (Need feedback)

[HourGrim]

First off, hello everyone, I am HourGrim. I have been dabbling with Daz3D for a bit and I would like to make an AVN based on Lycans (Werewolves) & Vampires | (Not sure if I will add other mythical creatures or not, maybe some feedback on that also will dictate if I do or not.)

So what I would really like feedback on which I feel like would make this an amazing AVN would to be able to choose to either be born a Lycan or Vampire. I know that it would be more complicated as I would have to make two stories into the game, but would give the player a choice on what path to play as. Also, replayability.

Planned tags are: Fantasy, Graphic violence, (unsure if it would be Bestiality / Furry (Anthropomorphic) / Monster or anything else?), Transformation, vaginal sex, virgin, pregnancy, creampie, male protagonist, multiple endings.

Possible tags: either; Harem or Cheating.

For Harem, I am unsure if I want to go down that route where every female is madly in love with the MC (Even though I do enjoy slice of life games like that ). Or I make it if you select someone you commit yourself to, then cheat with someone else have consequences.

I will try to get some Scenes made up in the next couple of days to kind of show off the MC if the feedback does suggest on having the option to choose the race of the MC.

 

[Pixillin']

Ultimately it's going to depend on the story. Lycans vs Vampires is fine but whether or not it's good depends on what they do - the story itself. Personally I prefer to have a single Li. In most Harem games, that are designed to be harem games I end up liking one or maybe two (max) Lis and then everyone else is just a distraction. Of course I also don't cheat. Whatever you decide don't have them just all automatically love MC. The most satisfying games, and Lis, make you work for it - at least a little bit. Totally your call though it all depends on the story you want to tell.

 

[Noah Neim]

Since it's an AVN, the resources and time required aren't too great. Since it's going to be one side vs the other, as long as you make a solid grand plot (plot of the world itself, not just the individual story of the mc) you should manage.
Some ideas would be limiting the pool of main characters which will participate within the main story, allowing you to focus on each individual character more.
This isn't a bad thing, don't start with the impression that a long and expansive game iss better than a concise and short one, alot of games on here don't even have the privlege of saying they'll ever finish at the pace they're going.
A neat thing you can do is decetralize the plot from the main character, for example, if you choose vampires, and say among one of the main girls who is in danger and needs to be saved. If one chooses the Lycan, she simply dies, or has a vaastly altered fate, it might really hammer in the importance of the choice the player makes.
To add onto this, instead of chosing who you're born as, perhaps consider making it so you choose who to become. Lycans and Vampiress are beings you can turn into as a human, if you give the player an intro where they can become more acquianted, perhaps they will be more comfortable with the choice, and be filled with dread once they make it.
For a game like this, given that this is likely your first game (I assume) 5-7 endings would be decent, there could be less if you feel like you can make them that impactful, basically, 1 victory, 1 defeat ending (since I assume this is some sort of war or atleast competition of sorts) for each route and perhaps a 5th fan service ending for coexistence? Just a thought of course.
And in order for the players to feel llike their choices actually matter to some extent, have different interactions of small scale results which are seperate from the ending, not every choice has to impact to the ending itself. You can have one character who you just decide to be an asshole to gloat over you after you lose, or try to comfort you if you were nice maybe? Essentially, while this wasn't a character who impacted the ending in way, the players choice still impacted how they acted and developed. Life sims tend to have this, showing the fate of characters based on your choices regardless of endings.


As for harem, it's not impossible, and since porn gamess are stuck in fantasy, it's not like people dislike it. However if your intention is to write an actually good story, really consider the trope properly, how do harem members decide who goes with the mc? What kind of drama can be caused by such? Is it really ethical to have so many girls you claim to love equally, when that sentence itself is an oxymoron? And so on, there is no bad trope, simply bad writers.

Good luck with your game man.

 

[TheCragger]

Personally I've been long looking for a decently done game where one plays a male werewolf, minotaur, demon etc. with non human genitalia. Everything they appear though they quickly become abandoned. On the flip side playing a human 'vampire' has quite a few other titles to compete against.

And while I dream of a game where one plays a mythical creature forging a clan/empire/etc. through conquest and force all sorts of stories can be interesting utilizing the tags you have listed. As far as harem goes I will say I tend to enjoy that more then single love interest because it engages the what one can have in fantasy over real life desire. You are however absolutely right in that the trope of women just falling madly in love and not having to be coerced or romanced into it is quite old.

 

[HourGrim]

First off, thank you all for the feedback. It's nice to have a mix of views, to give me more ideas.

Ultimately it's going to depend on the story. Lycans vs Vampires is fine but whether or not it's good depends on what they do - the story itself. Personally I prefer to have a single Li. In most Harem games, that are designed to be harem games I end up liking one or maybe two (max) Lis and then everyone else is just a distraction. Of course I also don't cheat. Whatever you decide don't have them just all automatically love MC. The most satisfying games, and Lis, make you work for it - at least a little bit. Totally your call though it all depends on the story you want to tell.

Pixillin' : 100% understand. The story / backstory is going to be a huge part for me. I see both sides of it, I love having one LI where you can get a full story on the buildup, passion etc. On the other hand, I know when I play games where there are multiple beautiful LI's, I am always lost on who to choose because I want both or multiple of them (don't hate me )
but I do want to kind of make this like a Romeo and Juliet type love story, also where you actually have to try for the LI and them not just falling in your lap

Thank you for your feedback.

Since it's an AVN, the resources and time required aren't too great. Since it's going to be one side vs the other, as long as you make a solid grand plot (plot of the world itself, not just the individual story of the mc) you should manage.
Some ideas would be limiting the pool of main characters which will participate within the main story, allowing you to focus on each individual character more.
This isn't a bad thing, don't start with the impression that a long and expansive game iss better than a concise and short one, alot of games on here don't even have the privlege of saying they'll ever finish at the pace they're going.
A neat thing you can do is decetralize the plot from the main character, for example, if you choose vampires, and say among one of the main girls who is in danger and needs to be saved. If one chooses the Lycan, she simply dies, or has a vaastly altered fate, it might really hammer in the importance of the choice the player makes.
To add onto this, instead of chosing who you're born as, perhaps consider making it so you choose who to become. Lycans and Vampiress are beings you can turn into as a human, if you give the player an intro where they can become more acquianted, perhaps they will be more comfortable with the choice, and be filled with dread once they make it.
For a game like this, given that this is likely your first game (I assume) 5-7 endings would be decent, there could be less if you feel like you can make them that impactful, basically, 1 victory, 1 defeat ending (since I assume this is some sort of war or atleast competition of sorts) for each route and perhaps a 5th fan service ending for coexistence? Just a thought of course.
And in order for the players to feel llike their choices actually matter to some extent, have different interactions of small scale results which are seperate from the ending, not every choice has to impact to the ending itself. You can have one character who you just decide to be an asshole to gloat over you after you lose, or try to comfort you if you were nice maybe? Essentially, while this wasn't a character who impacted the ending in way, the players choice still impacted how they acted and developed. Life sims tend to have this, showing the fate of characters based on your choices regardless of endings.


As for harem, it's not impossible, and since porn gamess are stuck in fantasy, it's not like people dislike it. However if your intention is to write an actually good story, really consider the trope properly, how do harem members decide who goes with the mc? What kind of drama can be caused by such? Is it really ethical to have so many girls you claim to love equally, when that sentence itself is an oxymoron? And so on, there is no bad trope, simply bad writers.

Good luck with your game man.

Noah Neim : A lot to digest and read here, I definitely will be focusing on building the backstory & main story and not just the MC story / life. I want to give a game with a decent history story / plot. I haven't thought about doing it from a human side, being turned into either alliance. Might be something I consider. The only thing I think it takes away from doing that thought is the conflict history of either side you pick, since your MC wouldn't fully know the tensions. But could make it better for the Romeo & Juliet setting I would like to do.

I do like the idea of if choosing side A or B having a different impact on main LI. Or even a side LI / non-LI. Since I do love the movie Underworld, it will be kind of within touch of similar backstory to that with Lycans being the underdog. *Pun not intended*

I do like your idea of the small scale impacts of random characters / NPC actions based on some choices you made towards them or other choices that affects them and others as a whole. Will add this to my notes to add something like so.

Yes, I do plan having multiple endings (one for the choice of which side you decide) but also with the main / major choices you make. Also, yes this would be my first game I make, why I want to make something that stands out from others.

See, the Harem part is difficult for me because I want to (wouldn't say force a Romeo and Juliet (because I dislike games where you're forced to be with an LI.)) Have a main / huge impactful LI what drives part of the story with the MC. (Which I could do with them being friends also?) If I did go the route with harem, I would make it where they wouldn't just fall to your feet madly in love. (Those stories feel way farfetched, even for fantasy settings.)

You gave me a lot to think about and take notes on, so thank you

Personally I've been long looking for a decently done game where one plays a male werewolf, minotaur, demon etc. with non human genitalia. Everything they appear though they quickly become abandoned. On the flip side playing a human 'vampire' has quite a few other titles to compete against.

And while I dream of a game where one plays a mythical creature forging a clan/empire/etc. through conquest and force all sorts of stories can be interesting utilizing the tags you have listed. As far as harem goes I will say I tend to enjoy that more then single love interest because it engages the what one can have in fantasy over real life desire. You are however absolutely right in that the trope of women just falling madly in love and not having to be coerced or romanced into it is quite old.

TheCragger : I agree, I hardly ever see anything with a werewolf / Lycan game. Yeah, I guess a lot of artists don't want to look at / make the genitalia non-human for whatever reason. (If they were in human form, I would understand.) I do agree and understand where you're coming from with the harem. The problem with a lot of harem games I have played, it just seems like there are no struggles to get the LI's even games where they are forced on you. So if I did go down the route of doing harem, I would want to make it a struggle to try to convince the chosen LI's to agree to it. (Side note: I also want to have it be a buildup of trust, impression, spark, etc. To even impress the LI to even consider to be with you.)

Thanks for the feedback, I will be writing some notes on how to go about this.

 

[TheCragger]

I think part of why they get abandoned is just less people attempt them. Lots of even the common trope school games get abandoned. So when you start off with fewer less chances of life allowing for a completed one I guess. The other part is those that want to do that sort of content often make the mistake of building up their support on patreon. Which has very inconsistently applied 'rules' and lack of appeal leading to the rug getting yanked out from under them. Hence why I always suggest Subscribestar.

 

[Pixillin']

100% understand. The story / backstory is going to be a huge part for me. I see both sides of it, I love having one LI where you can get a full story on the buildup, passion etc. On the other hand, I know when I play games where there are multiple beautiful LI's, I am always lost on who to choose because I want both or multiple of them (don't hate me )
but I do want to kind of make this like a Romeo and Juliet type love story, also where you actually have to try for the LI and them not just falling in your lap

Thank you for your feedback.

Just one other point to consider - having multiple Lis but no harem will, for a lot of players, mean multiple playthroughs / multiple saves, which means they will spend more time with the game rather than just playing through once or twice.

 

[Doorknob22]

...to be able to choose to either be born a Lycan or Vampire. I know that it would be more complicated as I would have to make two stories into the game

No. Nope. Don't. Sorry for my bluntness, for your first project starting off with such an ambitious goal is basically setting yourself to fail.

• Take, for example, potential patrons who don't like vampires. You're practically telling them: Hey, I'm going to use a major amount of the money you give me to create content you don't like.
• Are the different paths going to be so dramatically different that playing both critters is going to provide a new experience or is it going to be same experience with different graphics? If the answer is the former, you're committing yourself to almost doubling your work. If not, people may not bother to replay.
• In each Lycan\Vampire are there going to be choices? If not, you're essentially making two kinetic novels. If yes, you're now quadrupling some parts of your AVN.

My advice to you is to lower your scope. Choose one critter, the one you enjoy more, and write a short AVN about it. Then, after it's done, you can, for example, spend a few months and add the other critter to the AVN. Or publish a new game with the other critter based on the first game. But whatever you choose, lowering your scope for your first game is the best advice I can give you. After your first game, you'll know how to proceed.

Good luck!

 

[HourGrim]

I think part of why they get abandoned is just less people attempt them. Lots of even the common trope school games get abandoned. So when you start off with fewer less chances of life allowing for a completed one I guess. The other part is those that want to do that sort of content often make the mistake of building up their support on patreon. Which has very inconsistently applied 'rules' and lack of appeal leading to the rug getting yanked out from under them. Hence why I always suggest Subscribestar.

Yeah, I don't plan on going with Patreon, was more thinking of just doing this as a free project with an option to donate through “by me a coffee” or something (unless Subscribestar offers a free tier?) Thanks for the advice.

Just one other point to consider - having multiple Lis but no harem will, for a lot of players, mean multiple playthroughs / multiple saves, which means they will spend more time with the game rather than just playing through once or twice.

I didn't think of it that way. Very true if there are two LI's or more that the player likes then they would want to replay just to see the story with x LI. Thanks for that insight.

No. Nope. Don't. Sorry for my bluntness, for your first project starting off with such an ambitious goal is basically setting yourself to fail.

• Take, for example, potential patrons who don't like vampires. You're practically telling them: Hey, I'm going to use a major amount of the money you give me to create content you don't like.
• Are the different paths going to be so dramatically different that playing both critters is going to provide a new experience or is it going to be same experience with different graphics? If the answer is the former, you're committing yourself to almost doubling your work. If not, people may not bother to replay.
• In each Lycan\Vampire are there going to be choices? If not, you're essentially making two kinetic novels. If yes, you're now quadrupling some parts of your AVN.

My advice to you is to lower your scope. Choose one critter, the one you enjoy more, and write a short AVN about it. Then, after it's done, you can, for example, spend a few months and add the other critter to the AVN. Or publish a new game with the other critter based on the first game. But whatever you choose, lowering your scope for your first game is the best advice I can give you. After your first game, you'll know how to proceed.

Good luck!

You make valid points, I didn't see it as a potential to set myself up for failure. But I think I understand where it would be dedicating a lot of time to both paths to make it equal, or would have to do one side per update.

I did want to make both paths different in away, since they are both different critters.
By what you mean here: “add the other critter to the AVN” do you mean to add the option to play the other critter, or to introduce them into the game as a whole?

Thanks for the feedback and insight.

 

[Doorknob22]

By what you mean here: “add the other critter to the AVN” do you mean to add the option to play the other critter, or to introduce them into the game as a whole?

I'm assuming some (hopefully most) scenes can be shared between the two paths/critters, so after you release a small-but-complete AVN with one critter, you can spend a few weeks or months going over the code and adding new, alternate scenes, for the other critter where the plot/scenes split between the two. You can even leave yourself markings in the code where you'll want to add an alternate scene in the future.

My main point is: a small but complete project is infinitely better than an ambitious, abandoned one.

 

[HourGrim]

I'm assuming some (hopefully most) scenes can be shared between the two paths/critters, so after you release a small-but-complete AVN with one critter, you can spend a few weeks or months going over the code and adding new, alternate scenes, for the other critter where the plot/scenes split between the two. You can even leave yourself markings in the code where you'll want to add an alternate scene in the future.

My main point is: a small but complete project is infinitely better than an ambitious, abandoned one.

Ah, now I get what you mean. Yeah, I don't want to abandon a first game I try to make, so thank you for the advice.

 

[TheCragger]

Doorknob has a great point. Remember you can always build on top of a previous game. But abandoning projects or having them slow to a crawl is downfall few recover from.

 

[Stalker Seducer]

First off, hello everyone, I am HourGrim. I have been dabbling with Daz3D for a bit and I would like to make an AVN based on Lycans (Werewolves) & Vampires | (Not sure if I will add other mythical creatures or not, maybe some feedback on that also will dictate if I do or not.)

So what I would really like feedback on which I feel like would make this an amazing AVN would to be able to choose to either be born a Lycan or Vampire. I know that it would be more complicated as I would have to make two stories into the game, but would give the player a choice on what path to play as. Also, replayability.

Planned tags are: Fantasy, Graphic violence, (unsure if it would be Bestiality / Furry (Anthropomorphic) / Monster or anything else?), Transformation, vaginal sex, virgin, pregnancy, creampie, male protagonist, multiple endings.

Possible tags: either; Harem or Cheating.

For Harem, I am unsure if I want to go down that route where every female is madly in love with the MC (Even though I do enjoy slice of life games like that ). Or I make it if you select someone you commit yourself to, then cheat with someone else have consequences.

I will try to get some Scenes made up in the next couple of days to kind of show off the MC if the feedback does suggest on having the option to choose the race of the MC.

More choices and more content is almost always better... but in equal measure harder to make, i found this out the hard way. you can speed through making a kinetic novel but add even one branching story path and suddenly you have a massive time sink on your hands both coding and writing.

So the question is how much time do you want to sink into mechanics and choices vs getting the story done.

 

[HourGrim]

Doorknob has a great point. Remember you can always build on top of a previous game. But abandoning projects or having them slow to a crawl is downfall few recover from.

Yeah they do, I will more likely go with what was recommended of just doing one story, then making the other path with notes / marker points in my code for the other critter's path.

More choices and more content is almost always better... but in equal measure harder to make, i found this out the hard way. you can speed through making a kinetic novel but add even one branching story path and suddenly you have a massive time sink on your hands both coding and writing.

So the question is how much time do you want to sink into mechanics and choices vs getting the story done.

I was never a big fan of KN's, sure I could make an excellent story, but I feel like without choices the player doesn't feel invested / immersed into the game. So I would say I would go all out with doing the coding & writing to have choices / branching paths.
Thanks for the advice and feedback.