Game writing question

[The Lewd Gamer]

Hey, I am wondering. Do you prefer porn games written in pure first person? Where the text is just what the MC thinks and speaks, with what others speak, or more like a "novel writing"? (idk how else to call it) Where there's also some description of the situation (narrator voice; note that narrator could be MC talking in first person when describing what he does/sees/thinks). Also if you could justify (even with a simple "I just prefer it") I would greatly appreciate it.

Or maybe if you have any other preference as to how to set up and develop a scene I'm all ears. I'm in the process of developing a game and I have a lot of ideas that I want to put to text, but I'm unsure as how to continue from here.

Also, I thought I could share with you a quick draft of a scene where a girl is showering and the MC (who never saw her naked but wants to) decides to go peep.

Note: every "-" would be a different dialogue bubble.

I don't really like the second version too much, because although it is less work for me, it's just a boring format to produce. I'd really love to write like in the MC narrator version, but I want to know if you'd like it.

Edit: I should have clarified. The game is not text based. It is a 2d game developed in Unity and lewd scenes will consist of a set of images (or animations in the future, maybe) with a dialogue bubble below (like many VN games).

 

[SatinAndIvory]

Depends. Is this a purely text game? If so, the narrator version makes a lot more sense there. If this is a visual novel we're talking about, I much prefer the second. Having narration in a visual novel can work but it starts to feel like someone else is telling you what already happened rather than you experiencing it with the main character for the first time, if you know what I mean.

 

[TessaXYZ]

Hey, I am wondering. Do you prefer porn games written in pure first person? Where the text is just what the MC thinks and speaks, with what others speak, or more like a "novel writing"? (idk how else to call it) Where there's also some description of the situation (narrator voice; note that narrator could be MC talking in first person when describing what he does/sees/thinks). Also if you could justify (even with a simple "I just prefer it") I would greatly appreciate it.

Or maybe if you have any other preference as to how to set up and develop a scene I'm all ears. I'm in the process of developing a game and I have a lot of ideas that I want to put to text, but I'm unsure as how to continue from here.

Also, I thought I could share with you a quick draft of a scene where a girl is showering and the MC (who never saw her naked but wants to) decides to go peep.
View attachment 2629657 Note: every "-" would be a different dialogue bubble.

I don't really like the second version too much, because although it is less work for me, it's just a boring format to produce. I'd really love to write like in the MC narrator version, but I want to know if you'd like it.

False dichotomy. If you present it well, you can use both methods. Also, a lot of the exposition in the first method could (and should) be offloaded into showing and not telling. If she's walking by a shower, have her walk by a shower. Have audio of a shower running. Give her an expression of excitement as she gets closer and closer. Have music or some other audio (heavier breathing, rapid heartbeat) to express how she's feeling. That's a WAY better storytelling approach than to describe it in full detail.

 

[HarveyD]

Personally, I prefer the second person for VNs or anything where it's more of a self-insert. The third person for a set character. I also despise the inner monologue of most of the protagonists from the devs here.

Spoiler: How I'd write it (You didn't ask)

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[VMiller]

We thought a lot about it and decided to make a game with multiple protagonists.
Each protagonist has his own strictly first-person storyline, and sometimes they intersect.

 

[Rafster]

When I started writing my game, I jumped back and forth with First-second person. Players pointed out my writing mistakes, and I decided to stay with second person just to have consistency.

Now, between the narrator version or the MC thinking/saying style: Why not having a mix of both? in some scenes I have the MC saying/thinking by himself, and, most of the time, narrator jumps in to tell the story. But of course, my game is mostly text based, so I cheat there.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Do you prefer porn games written in pure first person? Where the text is just what the MC thinks and speaks, with what others speak, or more like a "novel writing"? (idk how else to call it) Where there's also some description of the situation (narrator voice; note that narrator could be MC talking in first person when describing what he does/sees/thinks).

Since you don't talk about a text based game, none are really a good approach.

The problem is that, whatever if the player self insert or prefer to place himself as a witness, a game should be immersive. And thoughts/narrations break this immersion, sending you back to your sole quality of player. This mean that the rule you should follow should be "show, don't tell".
Of course, it's not possible to effectively have a 100% thoughts/narrations free game, but each time it's possible, you should rely on the visual part to carry those information ; this post have few examples showing how it can be done. Cherry on the cake, in top of not breaking the immersion, the player feel more involved in the game. He'll not be passively looking at your story, and will generally like your game a bit more because of this.

False dichotomy. If you present it well, you can use both methods. Also, a lot of the exposition in the first method could (and should) be offloaded into showing and not telling. If she's walking by a shower, have her walk by a shower.

Until there I agree, but:

Have audio of a shower running. Give her an expression of excitement as she gets closer and closer. Have music or some other audio (heavier breathing, rapid heartbeat) to express how she's feeling.

This isn't a good advice because many among the players (assume "half of") will play with the sound off.

It doesn't mean that you should just drop the idea to add sounds, but they should be limited to the ambiance. If/when they carry effective information, they need to be doubled as text (or visual) in a way or another, for those soundless players to also have the said information.

Take your shower example. Having shower sound, okay, it's a good addition. But it should limit to the sound only if the MC is just passing by the door ; it will then provide a bit more depth for players having the sound on. But it the said MC was going to the bathroom, and change her mind because there's already someone, you should also express it visually.
Else the players who play soundless will not understand why she changed her mind. It will give them weird vibe and left them thinking that you aren't as good as they thoughts ; MC was going to shower herself, then end in the kitchen to drink something, this for apparently no other reasons that an inconstancy in your writing.

 

[The Lewd Gamer]

The problem is that, whatever if the player self insert or prefer to place himself as a witness, a game should be immersive.

I completely agree with this. But here I disagree:

And thoughts/narrations break this immersion, sending you back to your sole quality of player. This mean that the rule you should follow should be "show, don't tell".

I don't think thoughts/narration will always break the immersion of a player. And the rule of "show, don't tell" is fine, but up to a point. Many games, like Summertime Saga, tell the story of MC that has feelings, opinions, past traumas, etc. And you don't loose immersion when the MC starts to remember something, or sees something they like and thinks internally about it, etc. Because it's part of the narrative. And you, as a player, already know that you're not always in control. Sometimes you have to let the game tell you a story.
And over time you start to empathize with the MC and what to help them achieve their goals (be it defeat an evil dragon or get laid with the entire town).

this post have few examples showing how it can be done.

And about to this. Great post! I agree with many things, like never show what the NPC's are thinkning (I never liked that in games). Also about following the "show, don't tell" rule to show progress to the player, instead of a "+1 love"

 

[woody554]

I think in any interactive game it breaks the immersion if you go outside of MC's head, but I can see how hopping between individual simultaneous stories could work in a kinetic novel.

there's ways to cheat in the first case though: you can have the MC eavesdropping on others discussing their thoughts, or you can 'read their thoughts' from their hidden diary and so on. also you can just tell visually what the others are thinking, which is an criminally underused aspect of this VISUAL genre.

or you can show them clearly pondering something, then later make them confess what it actually was.

on the whole I think it's extremely important for a writer to teach themselves to resist the very natural urge of explaining things and instantly solving problems. leave hidden things covered (like other people's private thoughts), hint at them to make the reader wonder about it, but never actually reveal the correct answer.

there's a bunch of videos of david lynch being asked if weird things in his movies mean this or that, with him

You must be registered to see the links

and then then lingering in the awkward silence. that should always be the writer's attitude. you must know the secrets yourself while writing things, but never fully reveal or explain how it actually is. deny, avoid, misdirect, interject, whatever to not actually answer. but still make sure YOU know the answer.

 

[anne O'nymous]

I don't think thoughts/narration will always break the immersion of a player.

When it's light and occasional, effectively, it don't.
But if you starts to design your game knowing that you'll use thoughts and/or narrations, it will not stay light, nor occasional.

And the rule of "show, don't tell" is fine, but up to a point. Many games, like Summertime Saga, tell the story of MC that has feelings, opinions, past traumas, etc. And you don't loose immersion when the MC starts to remember something, or sees something they like and thinks internally about it, etc. Because it's part of the narrative.

I do loose immersion when it happen. And you don't necessarily need to rely on thoughts for the MC to remember something.
The DeLuca Family again, without even talking about "My Name is Luna" quest, there's parts where a character remember something, and it's done without a word. We know that Wilfred witnessed MC in during his youth because we saw him witnessing MC. We know how Wilfred felt when Luna came back, once again because we saw it.

And you, as a player, already know that you're not always in control. Sometimes you have to let the game tell you a story.

It tell me a story, but why should it need to use words for this ?
Near the end of Futagenesis Unveiled first release, the MC was in a street, going back home in the middle of the night. Then the camera move backwards, a car appear in the street... There's more, but just this is already enough to tell a big and important story ; MC's under surveillance, and if she's under surveillance then there's way more to uncover behind the "a futa character learn to socialize" that seemed to be the premise so far.

And over time you start to empathize with the MC and what to help them achieve their goals (be it defeat an evil dragon or get laid with the entire town).

But how can you empathize when you don't feel ?
Go back to the example above. What make you empathize ? Seeing a big black car appearing, and understanding that someone followed MC, or is it a "she was going back home, totally unaware that, somewhere in the dark, a strange car was following her" ?

 

[TessaXYZ]

Until there I agree, but:


This isn't a good advice because many among the players (assume "half of") will play with the sound off.

It doesn't mean that you should just drop the idea to add sounds, but they should be limited to the ambiance. If/when they carry effective information, they need to be doubled as text (or visual) in a way or another, for those soundless players to also have the said information.

Take your shower example. Having shower sound, okay, it's a good addition. But it should limit to the sound only if the MC is just passing by the door ; it will then provide a bit more depth for players having the sound on. But it the said MC was going to the bathroom, and change her mind because there's already someone, you should also express it visually.
Else the players who play soundless will not understand why she changed her mind. It will give them weird vibe and left them thinking that you aren't as good as they thoughts ; MC was going to shower herself, then end in the kitchen to drink something, this for apparently no other reasons that an inconstancy in your writing.

I didn't really get into the weeds in my comment, but yes I agree. In my own game I double up the sound effects with other visual cues. And much of what's being conveyed is also reinforced with the dialogue and monologue. I'm simply saying that actually narrating every single beat of the scene is not good storytelling; using multiple approaches together should be the way.

That said, people play with the sound off because most devs don't spend more than two minutes on sound design. I think that's something we devs needs to collectively improve if immersion is a core target for the medium.

 

[EvolutionKills]

I always appreciate inner thoughts and monologue, but it is the ancillary details that can truly make a VN rise above the rest.

VN's that are all or mostly all back and forth dialogue are the worst. They suffer form bad and boring dialogue, because all details must be said out loud or missed entirely.

Stepping that up to include thoughts can improve things, by giving the audience a look into the heads of characters. Whether or not we're tied entirely to just one character, or jump around and see things from more than one perspective, it greatly helps your storytelling toolkit when you can convey information to the audience without it being spoken by dialogue.

The next step up is including ancillary details. Things like actions or screen direction (e.g. 'she pulled out her phone in a panic'), they could be physical or emotional responses (e.g. 'my nemesis smirked in response'), it could be senses or feelings (e.g. 'her hair smelled faintly of strawberries'). It is a tool for worldbuilding, and requires an author to be really into the headspace of their narrative. It's not enough to just write some character dialogue. Now you gotta think about them as living people, how they'd react and what those reactions say about them. How they feel, what they smell, touch, or taste. How do they talk, or stand, or sit? What is the location like that the conversation takes place in? It is a LOT more work, but it's how you build an authentic world that feels lived in.

 

[balitz Method]

There are good reasons to use first, third, and even poor second, the black sheep of the perspective family, in erotic games.

First can carry a lot of weight. If the crux of what's interesting/hot about your story relies on knowing how the situation is affecting the main character then it's flat-out the best choice. Second doesn't leave any room for reflection and third can get this across but it will, almost inevitably, read more like exposition than anything personal. It wouldn't make sense to use first for a blank slate avatar-type character but if there's some backstory to carry and you're hoping to get an emotional reaction from your narrative first person is your workhorse.

Text games that are more about the adventure - lewd or otherwise - are uniquely poised to take advantage of second person. It trims away a lot of the fat and presents the situation in a way that allows it to more or less speak for itself. If you're thinking that too much narration would get in the way of what you're trying to do (like if your game is mostly a fantasy framework to give context to a bunch of pictures/gifs or if you've got a roguelike procedurally generated framework in mind) then second will present what's necessary and then get out of the way of your scenario. This works very well for blank slate main characters.

If you don't want to be locked into any single character's perspective (it's powerful but it -is- limiting) third can bring some of the strengths of first while presenting a narrative that's not firmly '[character]'s story'. You don't see third as much in these. Part of the reason is that anyone writing an erotic narrative has to keep in mind that a significant portion of the audience will feel insecure or unengaged if too much sex is happening without 'their' character's personal involvement. Even in cuckold/NTR games perspective tends to shift between first person perspectives rather than lean back and describe the whole thing from a detached omniscient perspective. Sex is very personal and third person is necessarily impersonal. That's not to say it doesn't get used: this is a bit abstract, but a lot of those violated heroine games are 'third person' in the sense that they're not written with the specific intention that the player project themselves into the main character. The player is imagined to be an observer who's steering her into or away from danger and the sex scenes will often pull back to traditional third person - this thing is happening to her - in consideration of the fact that few among the mostly-male playerbase are trying to imagine themselves in her position.

When you make your decision keep the strengths and weaknesses of each in mind and remember that you can switch perspectives for particular scenes.

 

[The Lewd Gamer]

It tell me a story, but why should it need to use words for this ?
Near the end of Futagenesis Unveiled first release, the MC was in a street, going back home in the middle of the night. Then the camera move backwards, a car appear in the street... There's more, but just this is already enough to tell a big and important story ; MC's under surveillance, and if she's under surveillance then there's way more to uncover behind the "a futa character learn to socialize" that seemed to be the premise so far.

But how can you empathize when you don't feel ?
Go back to the example above. What make you empathize ? Seeing a big black car appearing, and understanding that someone followed MC, or is it a "she was going back home, totally unaware that, somewhere in the dark, a strange car was following her" ?

I see your point, I actually do, but I also agree with Tessa here:

I'm simply saying that actually narrating every single beat of the scene is not good storytelling; using multiple approaches together should be the way.

My conclusion was that the best approach actually depends on what type of narration the player is looking for. And I don't see why a balanced combination of both approaches couldn't successfully keep the player entertained. But I guess it ends up being a matter of preference for each player, you can't keep everyone happy. So, I'll try implementing the "show, don't tell" rule as much as I can (even if it's little times, because it means I have to draw more and as I stated before, I don't have the skill even if though I try to be good), and also complement with MC's thoughts when they think things that I can't show.

And this too btw, I play with sounds just in case some dev happened to think of putting the effort...

That said, people play with the sound off because most devs don't spend more than two minutes on sound design. I think that's something we devs needs to collectively improve if immersion is a core target for the medium.

 

[Living In A Lewd World]

Regarding thoughts/narration in games:

While I agree, that thoughts/narration should be used very sparsely, I still think, that they can be used to raise the mood of a game and thus immersion, while saving time for producing renders. But their use should be as it's said actually rather rare.

I think, a rule of thumb could be:

renders > narration/thoughts > nothing

But this should always only be for narrations/thoughts, that really contribute to the story or convey the character's mindeset. A scene, where I find this used in a good way is in "The headmaster": "Busy shower room scene".



While it would be surely utterly hard to create renders for what is written in the scene, the message conveys lots of information about the headmaster's mindset, that aren't directly visible. Thus I prefer in this case the use of thoughts above putting in only the image.

Another in my eyes very good usage of thoughts is to convey hints. Also in "the headmaster", the MC reflects at the end of some scenes about the happening and gives hints, where to go next. This feels for me better, as when this is put into "direct speech", where it often feels too unnatural.

But this may be a special case for "the headmaster", as he is generally presented as a very reflective man. So it may just belong to his role.

 

[SatinAndIvory]

Regarding thoughts/narration in games:

While I agree, that thoughts/narration should be used very sparsely, I still think, that they can be used to raise the mood of a game and thus immersion, while saving time for producing renders. But their use should be as it's said actually rather rare.

I think, a rule of thumb could be:

renders > narration/thoughts > nothing

But this should always only be for narrations/thoughts, that really contribute to the story or convey the character's mindeset. A scene, where I find this used in a good way is in "The headmaster": "Busy shower room scene".

View attachment 2632350

While it would be surely utterly hard to create renders for what is written in the scene, the message conveys lots of information about the headmaster's mindset, that aren't directly visible. Thus I prefer in this case the use of thoughts above putting in only the image.

Another in my eyes very good usage of thoughts is to convey hints. Also in "the headmaster", the MC reflects at the end of some scenes about the happening and gives hints, where to go next. This feels for me better, as when this is put into "direct speech", where it often feels too unnatural.

But this may be a special case for "the headmaster", as he is generally presented as a very reflective man. So it may just belong to his role.

Doing it entirely in renders is arguably more interesting to me. Get this, in the same scene as your example.

Img1: Image of him sneaking to the window.
Img2: Show inside the bathroom with a girl showering looking away from him and his face clearly visible through the window.
Img3: Show him flush against the wall, arms to the side, his face away from the window.
Img4: He pulls out a ruler.
Img5: He pushes the ruler against the window sill, biting his lip not to make noise.
Img6: He takes a quick look to make sure his presence is still unknown.
Img7: He slides the window open.

It builds way more anticipation for what happens next and it shows the effort needed to do this. There's opportunity to build personality for the character depending on how he handles doing this. Is he an oaf, bumbling around barely able to get the window open? Is he overly excited about what's going to happen once he gets the window open? Or is he an expert, methodical, gets the window cracked open with a few precise jabs, pulls the window open, showing that he's done this before?

 

[Living In A Lewd World]

Doing it entirely in renders is arguably more interesting to me. Get this, in the same scene as your example.

Img1: Image of him sneaking to the window.
Img2: Show inside the bathroom with a girl showering looking away from him and his face clearly visible through the window.
Img3: Show him flush against the wall, arms to the side, his face away from the window.
Img4: He pulls out a ruler.
Img5: He pushes the ruler against the window sill, biting his lip not to make noise.
Img6: He takes a quick look to make sure his presence is still unknown.
Img7: He slides the window open.

It builds way more anticipation for what happens next and it shows the effort needed to do this. There's opportunity to build personality for the character depending on how he handles doing this. Is he an oaf, bumbling around barely able to get the window open? Is he overly excited about what's going to happen once he gets the window open? Or is he an expert, methodical, gets the window cracked open with a few precise jabs, pulls the window open, showing that he's done this before?

I totally agree, but the effort to do this would be much higher. And it's actually for a quite small scene of a huge game.
Altos actually uses for the complete scene only two renders, the second one is an animation:


and he puts in some more thoughts (not only that ones that are shown in the image).

The scene is surely not perfect, but it still conveys the most important information in a pleasant way and uses thoughts as a short cut to save rendering time while still showing the "important bits" and is thus still quite effective. And it is definitely better than presenting only the first image and the animation without any thoughts.

That's why I mean:

(more) renders/images > narrative/thoughts > nothing

with ">" standing for "greater as" (sorry, this might have not been immediately understandable, as ">" might also be interpreted as an arrow).

 

[simarimas]

I have never been a fan of 'reading others thoughts' in games personally. Always seemed cheap to me. If you are doing a full narrative story, then maybe it works, but for the most part I find it a very poor way to tell a story. Would rather show in the images how the other people feel.

Also not a fan of descriptive text, especially when the render already shows what is happening. Like an image showing the LI running down the street, and the text stating she is running down the street. Just seems redundant to me. Having the MC thinking "Why is she running?" would make more sense to me. But that is just me.

In our game, the full game is from the perspective of the MC. We do have his thoughts at times, though rarely. And never have any thoughts of other characters. If the MC didn't see it, hear it, or is told about it, then we don't show it. It makes it a bit of a challenge at times, but as stated earlier, we use the diary thing, or someone else telling the MC what happened, or he witnessed it somehow.

 

[anne O'nymous]

While it would be surely utterly hard to create renders for what is written in the scene, the message conveys lots of information about the headmaster's mindset, that aren't directly visible. Thus I prefer in this case the use of thoughts above putting in only the image.

Hmm, the game starts with the MC doing a lecture where he explain that his method consist to sexually abuse girls, forcing them into a total submission. His explanations being doubled by a demonstration where he used moral pressure and threats, to force a girl to let him masturbate her to orgasm in front of the public. Then he was surprised to be kicked out of the room...

The thoughts you shown tell us absolutely nothing that we don't already know since the few first minutes of the game. In fact they even tell us less. Those thoughts aren't about MC's mindset, but about ours. looking through this window is a voluntary choice made by the player, not a conscious decision made by the MC himself ; unlike with the lecture at the starts of the game.
By the way the MC react to our choice, we have the confirmation that we should play him as pervert (in case we needed it), but it's all. There's two other points, way more important, that define his mindset, and they aren't shown in this scene ; his biased sense of morality and his absence of limits.

The only thing you learn with this scene is how he achieve to open the window. And this could be shown with one or two renders where we would see him use a ruler to do it ; the fact that the window wasn't locked being then implicit.
But in fact, how he achieved to open the window is purely useless and counter productive. It give a rational explanation to something that is rational only on the instant, but become totally irrational starting the moment it can be repeated.
Every single night the window will not be locked. Every single night the MC will have the possibility to open the window and look at them showering. And not a single time one of those many girls, naked and, for those going out of the shower, wet, will feel the fresh air that pass through the opened window, nor even notice that the window is not closed.
Letting the player assume that the windows are magic and can't be fogged up, or just decide to ignore that they should be fogged up, would have been better than this attempt to rationalize the scene.

Another in my eyes very good usage of thoughts is to convey hints. Also in "the headmaster", the MC reflects at the end of some scenes about the happening and gives hints, where to go next. This feels for me better, as when this is put into "direct speech", where it often feels too unnatural.

It's a flaw, not a strength. If one need thoughts to give this kind of hints, then he failed somewhere.
Not that everything should be obvious, but still it should be clear enough to avoid this kind of mouth feeding approach. Especially since the game also have a quest system. If a player is stuck because he missed, or don't understood, the subtle hints, he can look at the quest to know what to do next.

inb4, The Headmaster is a game I appreciate and follow. I'm not saying that it's a bad game, just that the examples you gave aren't at all the "good use" you think they are.