Give me your opinion on updates

[Thomas Turbating]

What's up, guys!
Give me your opinion regarding the quality vs. quantity of updates.

To explain a little better: Do you prefer to receive small updates more often or really big updates, but less often?

 

[bobdickgus]

Obviously everyone prefers major updates often.
Other than that there are sub optimal choices, I guess I would relatively prefer longer updates less frequently of the two poor choices.
But there are games that release often with a fairly large amount of content like Sorcerer for instance, so try to be like that.

 

[Thomas Turbating]

Obviously everyone prefers major updates often.
Other than that there are sub optimal choices, I guess I would relatively prefer longer updates less frequently of the two poor choices.
But there are games that release often with a fairly large amount of content like Sorcerer for instance, so try to be like that.

Thanks for the response!
How long do you think is ideal between one update and another?

 

[bobdickgus]

Well just from my example of Sorcerer, you have approx 400 renders per month.
https://f95zone.to/threads/sorcerer-v0-23-0-talothral.58369/
If you are doing something like that with good consistency you are probably doing well.

 

[Beatrix Kiddo]

First we should adress what do we consider small and big. You've got games raging from weekly updates to 6 months updates or even more. For me the sweet spot is something between 1-2 months, and that's big or small depending on who you ask. If I have to choose one extreme or the other, I guess I'll take bigger updates. There's nothing more underwhelming than a continuous drip of small and inconsequential updates. At least with a big update I get disappointed just once.

And then there's the other face of the question, which is the amount of relevant content released per update. I'm all in for a huge update from time to time if it truly delivers on the amount and quality, but experience says that more often than not huge updates fail to do so.

 

[Pretentious Goblin]

Of the ones I support, one has a monthly update, the other weekly (which to be fair, isn't usually worth coming back to the game every week), and that consistency is one of the reasons I chose them. But they don't do renders or VNs. They're RPGM devs who commission 2D art.

 

[Thomas Turbating]

First we should adress what do we consider small and big. You've got games raging from weekly updates to 6 months updates or even more. For me the sweet spot is something between 1-2 months, and that's big or small depending on who you ask. If I have to choose one extreme or the other, I guess I'll take bigger updates. There's nothing more underwhelming than a continuous drip of small and inconsequential updates. At least with a big update I get disappointed just once.

And then there's the other face of the question, which is the amount of relevant content released per update. I'm all in for a huge update from time to time if it truly delivers on the amount and quality, but experience says that more often than not huge updates fail to do so.

I get your point.
Obviously, it is best to have a lot of content and very often, however this is not always possible in practice, unfortunately.

To be honest, when having to make this choice, I was already opting for the big update, but I wanted to know if, in the community's view, this would be a good choice.

I searched about it, but I didn't find anything along those lines, so I decided to open this poll, as this can also help other developers who have the same doubts.
At first, the big updates option is winning on a high difference.

 

[Thomas Turbating]

Of the ones I support, one has a monthly update, the other weekly (which to be fair, isn't usually worth coming back to the game every week), and that consistency is one of the reasons I chose them. But they don't do renders or VNs. They're RPGM devs who commission 2D art.

I see.
I believe that VN developers (DAZ users) have a very different reality than RPG Maker devs, as it requires much less time to prepare the scenes.

 

[おい！]

Don't care.

 

[Summer Boy]

Major less frequently, I prefer to have a good amount of stuff to play on each update I get.

 

[G60LADDER]

I get your point.
Obviously, it is best to have a lot of content and very often, however this is not always possible in practice, unfortunately.

To be honest, when having to make this choice, I was already opting for the big update, but I wanted to know if, in the community's view, this would be a good choice.

I searched about it, but I didn't find anything along those lines, so I decided to open this poll, as this can also help other developers who have the same doubts.
At first, the big updates option is winning on a high difference.

If you opt for bigger updates but find that it takes a lot of time between them, the best thing you can do is to stay in contact with your fanbase. Doesn't matter if it's here or one of the platforms like
Patreon. Helps prevent abandonment issues many fans may feel, especially once an update starts taking multiple months to complete.

 

[Thomas Turbating]

Major less frequently, I prefer to have a good amount of stuff to play on each update I get.

If you opt for bigger updates but find that it takes a lot of time between them, the best thing you can do is to stay in contact with your fanbase. Doesn't matter if it's here or one of the platforms like
Patreon. Helps prevent abandonment issues many fans may feel, especially once an update starts taking multiple months to complete.

I understand.
That seems to be the almost unanimous decision.
I will take it into consideration.

As for keeping the fan base informed, it's a must, no doubt about it.

 

[woody554]

whatever gets you past v0.3, but the reality is long pauses mean dev quitting 99% of the time.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Minor frequent updates generate two problems.

Being released by updates, adult games that have a story tend to follow the same format than TV series. There's the global narrative arc that will last as long as the game, few minor arcs that correspond to "season story", and finally the small narrative arc that will cover the update, that correspond to the "episode story", and that generally cover the current day.
With frequent minor updates, you're breaking this scheme to even smaller pieces. There's still a logical progression, but it will only make sense when the whole day/episode will be released. Before that, the player generally just have the impression to have played few random scenes.

The second problem is that those updates tend to be too small. There's even games where, even with a high debit connection, you need more time to download then install the game, than you'll need to play the update.

In the end, if it's good at first because it increase the visibility of the game, having frequent minor updates tend to be more harmful than benefit. This simply because, between the story that tend to look incoherent, and the time past playing, that seem too short, many players finish by wondering why they are following this game. And unless the game achieve to give them a really strong reason, they just stop doing it.

 

[Thomas Turbating]

whatever gets you past v0.3, but the reality is long pauses mean dev quitting 99% of the time.

What do you consider a long break when it comes to a period of time?

Minor frequent updates generate two problems.

Being released by updates, adult games that have a story tend to follow the same format than TV series. There's the global narrative arc that will last as long as the game, few minor arcs that correspond to "season story", and finally the small narrative arc that will cover the update, that correspond to the "episode story", and that generally cover the current day.
With frequent minor updates, you're breaking this scheme to even smaller pieces. There's still a logical progression, but it will only make sense when the whole day/episode will be released. Before that, the player generally just have the impression to have played few random scenes.

The second problem is that those updates tend to be too small. There's even games where, even with a high debit connection, you need more time to download then install the game, than you'll need to play the update.

In the end, if it's good at first because it increase the visibility of the game, having frequent minor updates tend to be more harmful than benefit. This simply because, between the story that tend to look incoherent, and the time past playing, that seem too short, many players finish by wondering why they are following this game. And unless the game achieve to give them a really strong reason, they just stop doing it.

It makes perfect sense.
I was thinking that it was better to take a little longer, but to deliver the entire chapter and with the best quality possible, so people feel that the delay was worth it, but I wanted to hear the community opinion.

Thanks to everyone who responded.
Best regards!

 

[anne O'nymous]

I was thinking that it was better to take a little longer, but to deliver the entire chapter and with the best quality possible, [...]

Perhaps not necessarily an entire chapter, to keep my TV series comparison, there's some arc that need two episodes.

The important part, whatever how often, or not, you'll update, and how big, or small, those updates will be, is to offer something coherent as independent entity. And I say "coherent", not "comprehensible", because obviously it will often make no real sense without the previous updates, and don't really mean something without the future updates. But at least there's a whole part of the story and it feel complete. Something was to do (on more than one action), and it was done.

When a TV series need two episodes, it still don't left you in the middle of something. Each episode is a story by itself, and while you understand that there's still something missing, you don't feel like if you were interrupted in the middle of nowhere.
To take a thriller as example, the first episode will be dedicated to the investigation, and it will end when you'll know who the killer his. Then, the second episode will be dedicated to the track of this master of disguise, and obviously end when he'll be caught.
Reported to an adult game, it can be something like, "adventure of the day: tonight I'll take my girl on a romantic date". The first update will be the MC searching the perfect place for his date. It will left the player with something missing, but also with something fully accomplished. Then the second update will be the date itself. You'll be splitting what is a single day/episode into two updates, while keeping each update coherent.
This opposed to a morning/afternoon/evening three updates release, where you'll still be in the middle of MC's search for the perfect place at the end of the first update. And where MC will already have picked up his girl when the second update will end.

 

[woody554]

What do you consider a long break when it comes to a period of time?

after the slipping starts to go over 3 months they rarely come back. maybe once or twice a half-assed tiny update after a 5-6 month pause, then the game gets abandoned. there are only a couple of exceptions where people keep delivering even with long pauses, like summertime saga. 1 in a 100 or maybe even in 1000.

somebody said something about keeping in touch with the fanbase. while I'm sure there are people who like it, I've never seen that it has prevented the dev from being a lying scumbag promising absolutely anything to keep the naive bastards donating them.

this is not about how well you produce your updates, it's fine to take your time. but the rule of thumb is: once the dates begin slipping 99% of games are dead in just a few updates. it just almost never happens that those projects keep delivering anything but excuses.

otoh, if you stick to your schedule, people will show up every time.

 

[fitgirlbestgirl]

The more games I've played the more I've come to realize how much I prefer games that do "episodic" updates that take a long time to make. To me, the most important thing about an update is not whether it comes out in two weeks or in two months, it's whether it justifies the effort of picking a game back up and playing it.

"Fuck yeah, Chapter 3 was released" is a lot more exciting and likely to make me play than "Version 0.016b is out, let's check the changelog, oh, it's some bugfixes and a new scene for a character I don't care about."

 

[Thomas Turbating]

Perhaps not necessarily an entire chapter, to keep my TV series comparison, there's some arc that need two episodes.

The important part, whatever how often, or not, you'll update, and how big, or small, those updates will be, is to offer something coherent as independent entity. And I say "coherent", not "comprehensible", because obviously it will often make no real sense without the previous updates, and don't really mean something without the future updates. But at least there's a whole part of the story and it feel complete. Something was to do (on more than one action), and it was done.

When a TV series need two episodes, it still don't left you in the middle of something. Each episode is a story by itself, and while you understand that there's still something missing, you don't feel like if you were interrupted in the middle of nowhere.
To take a thriller as example, the first episode will be dedicated to the investigation, and it will end when you'll know who the killer his. Then, the second episode will be dedicated to the track of this master of disguise, and obviously end when he'll be caught.
Reported to an adult game, it can be something like, "adventure of the day: tonight I'll take my girl on a romantic date". The first update will be the MC searching the perfect place for his date. It will left the player with something missing, but also with something fully accomplished. Then the second update will be the date itself. You'll be splitting what is a single day/episode into two updates, while keeping each update coherent.
This opposed to a morning/afternoon/evening three updates release, where you'll still be in the middle of MC's search for the perfect place at the end of the first update. And where MC will already have picked up his girl when the second update will end.

Got it.
Even if it's not a whole chapter, but at least it manages to tie a significant chunk of the plot together.
Makes sense.

after the slipping starts to go over 3 months they rarely come back. maybe once or twice a half-assed tiny update after a 5-6 month pause, then the game gets abandoned. there are only a couple of exceptions where people keep delivering even with long pauses, like summertime saga. 1 in a 100 or maybe even in 1000.

somebody said something about keeping in touch with the fanbase. while I'm sure there are people who like it, I've never seen that it has prevented the dev from being a lying scumbag promising absolutely anything to keep the naive bastards donating them.

this is not about how well you produce your updates, it's fine to take your time. but the rule of thumb is: once the dates begin slipping 99% of games are dead in just a few updates. it just almost never happens that those projects keep delivering anything but excuses.

otoh, if you stick to your schedule, people will show up every time.

I understand, taking too long can also lead to the public misinterpreting, even though we still working on the project and intending to deliver updates.
This is also an important factor to consider, which is why I opened this thread, by the way.

The more games I've played the more I've come to realize how much I prefer games that do "episodic" updates that take a long time to make. To me, the most important thing about an update is not whether it comes out in two weeks or in two months, it's whether it justifies the effort of picking a game back up and playing it.

"Fuck yeah, Chapter 3 was released" is a lot more exciting and likely to make me play than "Version 0.016b is out, let's check the changelog, oh, it's some bugfixes and a new scene for a character I don't care about."

I think that too and it seems to be the majority opinion.
That was the feedback I needed.

Thanks everyone for the feedback!