How can I improve my PC for Daz Rendering? $1000 budget

[SpecialXSauce]

Hello,

I have about $1000 to upgrade my DAZ render rig. What weak areas should I improve on?

I'm thinking of upgrading to Windows 11 Pro and the RAM to 64GB(-$100) or 128GB(-$300), that would leave about another $700 or so to upgrade the power supply or the CPU.


GPU: RTX 3090 Ti /RTX 1060 (display only)
CPU: AMD Ryzen 3900X 3.7MHz 12-core
RAM: 32GB DDR4 (2x16Gb sticks, 2 more sticks open on the motherboard)
Windows 10 Home Edition
Power supply: EVGA 1000W

I also have a RTX 2080 that is disconnected due to concerns of overstraining the power supply.

 

[osanaiko]

When you are rendering now, do you have trouble with render speed? or does the Daz app loading times and slow interface cause you more trouble?

Personally I find that the Daz app scene setup time (loading figures and doing posing and cameras and lights and textures etc etc etc) is longer than render time.
If you setup your render scene files , save them, and then use an overnight render queue to do the final high quality renders, it means you do not tie up the system while working. Every morning you wake up to a fresh batch of new renders!

The relative "render power" of 3090ti and 2080 can be worked out from here:

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3090ti is approx. 20 ips (benchmark iterations per second). (I worked this from the 3090 score + 10%)
2080 would be more like 5 ips.

Also note that a 3090ti is similar to 3090 - you will be limited by thermals during long runs. An effective watercooling system that cools the vram memory as well as the GPU and VRMs will let you hit highest sustained performance.

To be honest, I think that spending $1000 on the area's you suggested probably won't give you much improvement:

* Windows 11 will likely make no improvement.

* More memory would potentially help a little for the loading of scene files, but would not affect render speed.

* Increased power-supply - 1000W should already be enough, and you should be able to add back in the 2080.

RTX3090ti: 450W max
RTX2080: 250W max
AMD 3900X: 175W max
Motherboard etc.: <100W
Total: ~875W

If you are still concerned about power, know that if you overdraw power it will simply crash, not cause damage. So if you are seeing crashes, use MSI Afterburner to slightly reduce the max-power of the 3090ti.

Note that combining the 3090ti and 2080 will only allow a max VRAM for textures of the 2080 card. So that would limit the number of objects (characters) in the scene compared to running just the 3090ti.

 

[MissFortune]

I think RAM is the only area that'd see a noticeable improvement. Not toward render speed, but toward how much you can render with a 3090, especially a ti.

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before his actual RAM ran out. He had 64GB of it, probably could've fit three or four more models into the scene before the VRAM finally kicked the bucket.

You're honestly at a point where diminishing returns start becoming a very real thing. Save the rest of your money (except for maybe RAM, which is relatively cheap comparatively.) in case something goes bad or you want to upgrade to something newer later.

 

[SpecialXSauce]

I've found that the load times tend to be longer than the render times

When you are rendering now, do you have trouble with render speed? or does the Daz app loading times and slow interface cause you more trouble?

Personally I find that the Daz app scene setup time (loading figures and doing posing and cameras and lights and textures etc etc etc) is longer than render time.
If you setup your render scene files , save them, and then use an overnight render queue to do the final high quality renders, it means you do not tie up the system while working. Every morning you wake up to a fresh batch of new renders!

The relative "render power" of 3090ti and 2080 can be worked out from here:

You must be registered to see the links

3090ti is approx. 20 ips (benchmark iterations per second). (I worked this from the 3090 score + 10%)
2080 would be more like 5 ips.

Also note that a 3090ti is similar to 3090 - you will be limited by thermals during long runs. An effective watercooling system that cools the vram memory as well as the GPU and VRMs will let you hit highest sustained performance.

To be honest, I think that spending $1000 on the area's you suggested probably won't give you much improvement:

* Windows 11 will likely make no improvement.

* More memory would potentially help a little for the loading of scene files, but would not affect render speed.

* Increased power-supply - 1000W should already be enough, and you should be able to add back in the 2080.

RTX3090ti: 450W max
RTX2080: 250W max
AMD 3900X: 175W max
Motherboard etc.: <100W
Total: ~875W

If you are still concerned about power, know that if you overdraw power it will simply crash, not cause damage. So if you are seeing crashes, use MSI Afterburner to slightly reduce the max-power of the 3090ti.

Note that combining the 3090ti and 2080 will only allow a max VRAM for textures of the 2080 card. So that would limit the number of objects (characters) in the scene compared to running just the 3090ti.

Thanks for all the replies everyone. My biggest issue right now is load times, not render times. Looking to reduce lag in the viewport.

 

[MissFortune]

Thanks for all the replies everyone. My biggest issue right now is load times, not render times. Looking to reduce lag in the viewport.

Lagging in the viewport? Is that with Iray Preview on or off? If it's on, are you working through a regular camera and not the perspective view? Is the headlamp off? If it's off, then what are your scenes like? Sounds like you're either using some huge props (and thus texture) or something's causing it (some hairs cause bad viewport performance, usually those high in poly, which is why a lot of them have options to turn the preview off (you should be turning it on before a render, though.).

I'm on a regular 3080, and I can move around fine in Iray Preview with little to no lag - short of posing characters, which is just easier to do in Texture Shaded anyways. A 3090ti should not be lagging (even as badly as Daz is built) in the viewport with or without Iray Preview. I mean, I've heard the whole thing about Daz rendering slowing down as the GPUs go higher end, but obviously that isn't relevant to your viewport.

 

[SpecialXSauce]

The lag usually is noticable when posing while the characters have something like hd hairs or hd morphs shown. Just like you've described.

I've noticed my system RAM peak out during the initial loading of scenes/characters and for the pre-render which im guessing is causing the load/render times to be slower.

Guess I've answered my own question with that lol - just get more system ram. I'll just get 32gb more and save the money for next years upgrade

 

[MoonPillow]

GPU: RTX 3090 Ti /RTX 1060 (display only)

Hello, by that you mean you have display physically connected to 1060 and the 3090 is in case hanging only for rendering? I don't know DAZ, but I guess you can define which GPU is used for rendering. But what's confusing me is that DAZ have some UI and you can see continuously state of the render. So if DAZ is handled by 3090, but only 1060 is connected to display then can you see the result of 3090?
Does anybody know how it actually works? Like all GPUs write to same "buffer" and that is then displayed through 1060?

 

[osanaiko]

Hello, by that you mean you have display physically connected to 1060 and the 3090 is in case hanging only for rendering? I don't know DAZ, but I guess you can define which GPU is used for rendering. But what's confusing me is that DAZ have some UI and you can see continuously state of the render. So if DAZ is handled by 3090, but only 1060 is connected to display then can you see the result of 3090?
Does anybody know how it actually works? Like all GPUs write to same "buffer" and that is then displayed through 1060?

It depends on how specialxsauce has the hardware connected.

Using a lower powered GPU for display and reserving the powerful GPU only for render is a possible choice for some professionals. It is common in some 3d workflows.

The reason it can give an advantage is that Windows reserves some video ram and interrupts the GPU to update the screen if it is used for display and render. This is "WDDM" mode.
If the card is NOT connected to a monitor and is only there for calculation purposes, then it's possible to configure so windows does not steal any ram or cycles, this is "TCC" mode or also called headless mode. It's possible that TCC is not supported in the 30x0 series cards, due to driver settings - the equivalent "professional" cards like the A6000 definitely do support it. I haven't seen a clear answer on this question.

Of course, if the 3090 is in TCC mode then the Iray preview of Daz will be only calculated on the 1060 (I think). So quite a lot slower (like 8x slower).

I'm not sure if it's possible to render iray preview on a dual GPU system where the rendering gpu is not connected to the monitor.

 

[osanaiko]

The lag usually is noticable when posing while the characters have something like hd hairs or hd morphs shown. Just like you've described.

I've noticed my system RAM peak out during the initial loading of scenes/characters and for the pre-render which im guessing is causing the load/render times to be slower.

Guess I've answered my own question with that lol - just get more system ram. I'll just get 32gb more and save the money for next years upgrade

You might already know this but just a tip - check the setting in Preferences -> Interface -> Display Optimization. If it is not set to "BEST" you will have much worse user interface experience.

 

[SpecialXSauce]

Hello, by that you mean you have display physically connected to 1060 and the 3090 is in case hanging only for rendering? I don't know DAZ, but I guess you can define which GPU is used for rendering. But what's confusing me is that DAZ have some UI and you can see continuously state of the render. So if DAZ is handled by 3090, but only 1060 is connected to display then can you see the result of 3090?
Does anybody know how it actually works? Like all GPUs write to same "buffer" and that is then displayed through 1060?

I have it set up so my 1060 is my default display, and the rtx 3090 ti only is used for certain applications, like rendering in daz and set to run certain games/programs. But for the most part the 1060 runs everything.

That way i can have youtube or a game running while the 3090 runs renders.

If I run something for a few hours unattended I'll switch the 1060 on in daz but the vram is so low it usually doesn't do much.