How does some games have really good renders?

[yeacy]

I was looking up how these games are made and I couldn't find any answer why renders on games like Eternum and Radiant look so much better than other games that I have seen. (Radiant's characters look good not the scenes)
I was wondering is it just better hardware? Any tips on how to make characters like these would be much appreciated.

 

[Meaning Less]

This is like asking "how can some people draw really good, is it just a better pen?"

It is good that you have given as examples a game rendered with HS and other with DAZ, because this shows that the tool alone isn't everything.

You just have to learn how to use the tool, and like with anything there is always a lot to learn the deeper you go. Lighting is essential to make 3D renders look better so maybe start there.

 

[Atemsiel]

Speaking with regard to HS games, it's about use of time. It's not technically all that difficult to produce really good looking renders, but it does take time to do it. Obviously with practice, you'll be able to do it quicker, but mostly it's just about how much priority you place on render quality when it comes to use of time. Some games strive to look as good as possible, while others instead opt to focus on more frequent updates, or story branching or something.


People could make a few eternum level renders without much issue, but making every render in the game like that is gonna take ages depending on how many renders you need to do for the game in general. Better hardware does also help to an extent, in that if you're like me, and your hardware straight up will not let you render in 4k, there will be that limitation. Hardware improvement is more about removing limitations than it's about squeezing extra quality out of scenes.

 

[woody554]

practice, practice, practice.

especially the honey select one looks like whoever made the renders has probably drawn or taken photos a lot. it's not perfect, but you can clearly see he understands the importance of telling a story in the images, composition and even decent coloring. might well be the best HS renders I've seen.

the daz one looks very amateurish, but it does very basic images with a decent result. the renders are very 'to the camera', don't tell a story and don't have much of a composition. you can tell that whoever made these doesn't have much background in art, but that he's trying to work very hard to make them as good as possible with his limited skills. there's no sign of laziness or not caring about the result.

both are of course miles above the usual stuff we see, where the creator is making their first images in their life and have no clue (yet). the reason why these guys are so bad is they've simply never even done anything before. (which is where every single one of us has started from, so nothing to be ashamed of. at least they're trying to make something, which puts them ahead of like 99.99% of people.)

 

[InteriorCrocodile]

I can't tell you anything about how the actual programs used for both games work, but I can tell you why they look good.
It's very basic artistic concepts (lighting, composition, etc.) taken to a professional level.

This can take months or years to master and can make anything look better and stand out.

Not going to go into in depth detail, so if you want to know exactly what I'm talking about, go to this article.

You must be registered to see the links

 

[DuniX]

For Honey Select it entirely depends on how you wrangle the color correction stuff in the Graphics Mod in combination with the lighting for the scene.
Which can be a pain but you can get used to it and collect a few presets. Different scenes require their own presets.
If you are starting out and trying it yourself that is what will immediately fuck you over and why things can look horrible in some games.
You especially want to draw the color from the skin and your character not look like a lifeless zombie. That includes tweaking the skin color values.

Other then that it depends on how you set up the camera to get the shot as well as the lighting, but nothing will save you if you get the color correction wrong and things will generally look good if you get it right even with simple light setups.

 

[yeacy]

Speaking with regard to HS games, it's about use of time. It's not technically all that difficult to produce really good looking renders, but it does take time to do it. Obviously with practice, you'll be able to do it quicker, but mostly it's just about how much priority you place on render quality when it comes to use of time. Some games strive to look as good as possible, while others instead opt to focus on more frequent updates, or story branching or something.


People could make a few eternum level renders without much issue, but making every render in the game like that is gonna take ages depending on how many renders you need to do for the game in general. Better hardware does also help to an extent, in that if you're like me, and your hardware straight up will not let you render in 4k, there will be that limitation. Hardware improvement is more about removing limitations than it's about squeezing extra quality out of scenes.

thank you for your response i'll play around in HS to understand it better

 

[yeacy]

practice, practice, practice.

especially the honey select one looks like whoever made the renders has probably drawn or taken photos a lot. it's not perfect, but you can clearly see he understands the importance of telling a story in the images, composition and even decent coloring. might well be the best HS renders I've seen.

the daz one looks very amateurish, but it does very basic images with a decent result. the renders are very 'to the camera', don't tell a story and don't have much of a composition. you can tell that whoever made these doesn't have much background in art, but that he's trying to work very hard to make them as good as possible with his limited skills. there's no sign of laziness or not caring about the result.

both are of course miles above the usual stuff we see, where the creator is making their first images in their life and have no clue (yet). the reason why these guys are so bad is they've simply never even done anything before. (which is where every single one of us has started from, so nothing to be ashamed of. at least they're trying to make something, which puts them ahead of like 99.99% of people.)

radiant's scenes do look ameteurish i agree, but the thing i dont get is how does the charcters look so much better than other games i saw the same character used in another game and it looked like potato. I guess ill try to play around in daz to see what i can do. thanks for your response.

 

[yeacy]

For Honey Select it entirely depends on how you wrangle the color correction stuff in the Graphics Mod in combination with the lighting for the scene.
Which can be a pain but you can get used to it and collect a few presets. Different scenes require their own presets.
If you are starting out and trying it yourself that is what will immediately fuck you over and why things can look horrible in some games.
You especially want to draw the color from the skin and your character not look like a lifeless zombie. That includes tweaking the skin color values.

Other then that it depends on how you set up the camera to get the shot as well as the lighting, but nothing will save you if you get the color correction wrong and things will generally look good if you get it right even with simple light setups.

thanks for the advice i'll play around in HS to see what look good and what doesn't

 

[woody554]

radiant's scenes do look ameteurish i agree, but the thing i dont get is how does the charcters look so much better than other games i saw the same character used in another game and it looked like potato. I guess ill try to play around in daz to see what i can do. thanks for your response.

you mean the skin? it's a combination of tweaking the subsurface scattering/translucency settings/maps and having decent lighting (and enough of it). often you see characters looking weirdly grey which is often from too little SSS/translucency or too low lighting. sometimes even if the skin settings are fine it looks wrong until you crank up the lights.

radiant does a decent job at that which gives the healthy saturation and 'waxiness' to the skin. (also I think the renders are adjusted in photoshop for maximizing the color/contrast space). but you can see from the even flat shine that the specular maps are either very low resolution or not there at all. it's not a huge problem but it gives the skin that doll-like flat shine, where as more realistic skin would show slight uneven skin surface (a combination of specular maps/bumbmaps/normal maps.)

the next question is of course "how do I do that?", and unfortunately there's no easy answer for that because every character maps tend to require different settings and even methods. some skin maps work well with very low settings, some with high and so on. so you just have to fumble around with the settings, and slowly you beging to feel your way towards the right look. practice, practice, practice.

(another hugely related thing is that there's no such thing as a 'correct skin color', but instead what looks 'right' is 90% dictated by the ENVIRONMENT. I'm not talking about psychological subjective illusions, but the physical reality of a surface vs the lights illuminating it. in a certain environment skin can be even strong green, and if you render/paint it in any other color it will look super wrong. that's why often certain skin settings can look vibrant in one scene and extremely grey in another scene. you just have to train your eye to see it through trial & error, and eventually it'll become fairly instinctive. but when you get there your images will begin to look harmonius and balanced, regardless of used medium.)

 

[tanstaafl]

Time, skill, knowledge, patience, effort, money. <--- Differing levels of these things per dev is the answer to this question.

 

[DuniX]

Time, skill, knowledge, patience, effort, money. <--- Differing levels of these things per dev is the answer to this question.

The definition of a non-answer.

 

[tanstaafl]

The definition of a non-answer.

And yet, still a correct answer. Funny how that works.

 

[DuniX]

And yet, still a correct answer. Funny how that works.

Correct but you would be better off not saying a thing.
That is also a "wisdom".

 

[tanstaafl]

Correct but you would be better off not saying a thing.
That is also a "wisdom".

Think of the answer as the intro to the text book that would be required to answer the OP's question in full. Every one of the things I listed contribute to the other things I listed.

Time for instance. Time to acquire knowledge. Time to process the renders that become part of a game. Time to learn the skills to create good renders. Patience to spend the time needed to acquire knowledge and learn the skills. Money to have time to acquire the knowledge, learn the skills, create the renders, and have the equipment required to do everything listed.

These things are self evident, as well as the connections between all the others, with a bit of effort. And the ability to actually critically think of course, that's important too.

I mean, you could also get into the technical aspects and theory of beautiful art. But, that's two more textbooks worth of knowledge right there. (At minimum.)

 

[DuniX]

Time for instance. Time to acquire knowledge. Time to process the renders that become part of a game. Time to learn the skills to create good renders. Patience to spend the time needed to acquire knowledge and learn the skills. Money to have time to acquire the knowledge, learn the skills, create the renders, and have the equipment required to do everything listed.

Time you waste by not giving actual good advice that saves their time.

 

[yeacy]

you mean the skin? it's a combination of tweaking the subsurface scattering/translucency settings/maps and having decent lighting (and enough of it). often you see characters looking weirdly grey which is often from too little SSS/translucency or too low lighting. sometimes even if the skin settings are fine it looks wrong until you crank up the lights.

radiant does a decent job at that which gives the healthy saturation and 'waxiness' to the skin. (also I think the renders are adjusted in photoshop for maximizing the color/contast space). but you can see from the even flat shine that the specular maps are either very low resolution or not there at all. it's not a huge problem but it gives the skin that doll-like flat shine, where as more realistic skin would show slight uneven skin surface (a combination of specular maps/bumbmaps/normal maps.)

the next question is of course "how do I do that?", and unfortunately there's no easy answer for that because every character maps tend to require different settings and even methods. some skin maps work well with very low settings, some with high and so on. so you just have to fumble around with the settings, and slowly you beging to feel your way towards the right look. practice, practice, practice.

(another hugely related thing is that there's no such thing as a 'correct skin color', but instead what looks 'right' is 90% dictated by the ENVIRONMENT. I'm not talking about psychological subjective illusions, but the physical reality of a surface vs the lights illuminating it. in a certain environment skin can be even strong green, and if you render/paint it in any other color it will look super wrong. that's why often certain skin settings can look vibrant in one scene and extremely grey in another scene. you just have to train your eye to see it through trial & error, and eventually it'll become fairly instinctive. but when you get there your images will begin to look harmonius and balanced, regardless of used medium.)

ah makes sense, thanks for your advice and reply!