How far can a game developer go(BDSM content)?

[MilanWT]

Hello everyone,

For example a game creator want to make a game heavy on BDSM content. Slavery, tortures,forced sex etc. and he want to have a profit from it . Let's say patreon support for the beggining. What are the legal structures preventing him from going too extreme with it and what/who decides when content is too extreme . Game's like Karlesson gambit for example have gore scenes in it and Patreon allowed them on theirs platform.

Thanks

 

[anne O'nymous]

For example a game creator want to make a game heavy on BDSM content. Slavery, tortures,forced sex etc. and he want to have a profit from it . Let's say patreon support for the beggining.

Patreon ban incestuous content, bestiality, underage sex, and none consensual sex, and that's all. But slavery and forced sex are borderline in term of consensual sex. Therefore, you need to make explicitly clear through the story, and surely repeat regularly, that the characters consented to be in this situation.

What are the legal structures preventing him from going too extreme with it and what/who decides when content is too extreme .

The same that prevent you to go to such extreme in real life. And if there isn't, then it's globally a grey area. Depending of the content, and how stuck are people, you can possibly be sued for apology of barbaric behavior ; what will not how it will be named, but it's what they'll try to go against.

Game's like Karlesson gambit for example have gore scenes in it and Patreon allowed them on theirs platform.

A game being available on Patreon do not mean that it's allowed, but that Patreon didn't received consistent enough complaint about it. Or, if you prefer, Patreon do not moderate beforehand, they investigate when they receive a report.
Not that this particular game break their Terms of Use, just that it's not because it's available on Patreon that it's allowed by Patreon. There's few explicit incestuous games on Patreon, and we know for sure that this one topic is a big no for them.

 

[♍VoidTraveler]

Hello everyone,

For example a game creator want to make a game heavy on BDSM content. Slavery, tortures,forced sex etc. and he want to have a profit from it . Let's say patreon support for the beggining. What are the legal structures preventing him from going too extreme with it and what/who decides when content is too extreme . Game's like Karlesson gambit for example have gore scenes in it and Patreon allowed them on theirs platform.

Thanks

Simply put, if you want truly hardcore content, you won't be using shitreon.
Try subscribe star. Here's the comparison:

You must be registered to see the links

 

[anne O'nymous]

Try subscribe star. Here's the comparison:

You must be registered to see the links

"In our opinion, Patreon is a better option than SubscribeStar in consideration of all factors. More trustworthy, better user interface and payout options."

 

[♍VoidTraveler]

"In our opinion, Patreon is a better option than SubscribeStar in consideration of all factors. More trustworthy, better user interface and payout options."

For non-hardcore content maybe, shitreon does indeed have more payout options after all.
But if you want to do really hardcore stuff and get paid for it, there isn't that many places that you could comfortably land at.
Substar being one, maybe even the only one.

 

[aura95]

But slavery and forced sex are borderline in term of consensual sex. Therefore, you need to make explicitly clear through the story, and surely repeat regularly, that the characters consented to be in this situation.

Which, just to add that here, is also the key difference that decides whether these activites can be counted as BDSM or not.

BDSM is per definition always consensal.
Sexual assault and abuse are not BDSM!

 

[Diconica]

Patreon bans might be the least of the potential issue in the long run.
Various countries have restrictions on various content that can be in a game. **********, rape, bestiality are few of them.
In the US and other countries it can also differ from state to state or province and so on.

In a worst case issue there could be the potential of a judge in some of the countries finding you the developer complicit in the crime. Such as if the court viewed the game as an instructional tutorial. If you country has expedition treaties in place you might find yourself fighting multiple legal battles starting with the one to fight against expedition.

Lets say you avoid the legal battle involving criminal law. That won't mean you get away scot-free. The country may in fact enter a guilty verdict if you are a no show to court then attach fines and penalties of a monetary value. In doing so they could also seize and or put a hold on bank accounts. Getting that reversed or undone without that countries cooperation can be hard.

How you tell your story can be quite important to how a court views it. The closer it comes to a guide or a forced route the more legal risk is involved as opposed to just giving someone the ability to do something and it being their choice. In short a VN would hold more risk than say minecraft stile sand box. VN effectively walks the person through a potential situation while the minecraft style game the player just has options that allow them to act out however they choose. You aren't walking them through it.

You also have to worry about treaties between countries. While something might not be in the standard criminal code it could be upheld as part of a treaty.

Grandfather protection. In some countries a law may be enacted and material made before that time is exempt. An example would be machine guns sold before NFA changes to the law. That isn't always how things work out. Some laws come in with a retroactive date or simply make anything related to it illegal.

Willing participant only goes so far. Take the punishment game you find on porn sites. There are lots of places that the person agreeing to it won't excuse the harm or the amount of harm done physically to an individual. Even the boxing and martial arts sports have referees to protect the participants to a level and have ems standing by in case anything goes wrong. Their liability insurance for the events isn't cheap.

If you add a scene in such as blackmail before hand few if any judges will consider anything that follows it as being of their own free will. This however is more of a concern for patreon. If patreon ever takes their rules seriously a lot of games will be instantly kicked from it.

If you want more legal protection write it as a book first even a short novel even if you have to self publish. Then you can say it is just an adaptation of the book. Books or printed press have always held greater protection under the law and tend to still do.
Don't try doing it in reverse you won't get the legal protection from it. Book first.
There is a good part to it beside the legal protection. You'll end up creating a better game because you will be forced to get the story correct to start with for the book. Well not truly if you self publish you can publish just as crappy of a story in a book as you would in a game.

 

[F4C430]

BDSM is per definition always consensal.
Sexual assault and abuse are not BDSM!

Disagree. When you practice BDSM IRL then of course it has to be consenual otherwise you're doing something illegal. But when it comes to fantasy media not involving real people, that doesn't apply. Sexual assault and abuse are not equivalent to BDSM but when it comes to fantasy media, they're not mutually exclusive either. There's a lot of games, manga, anime, and other art out there that wouldn't exist if it had to be strictly consensual.

 

[Doorknob22]

I've been using both and my content can be extreme for those who want it. When I publish with SubStar I have peace of mind that I don't have to walk on eggshells and play stupid hide and seek games with their admins. With Patreon it's the opposite.

 

[aura95]

There's a lot of games, manga, anime, and other art out there that wouldn't exist if it had to be strictly consensual.

I didn't say those can't exist.

I just said labeling noncon violence as BDSM is not correct, as the definition of BDSM excludes noncon violence.

Yes, you can be more lenient in a fantasy world where real people can't come to harm and real world laws don't apply.
You can do away with the negotiations and safety instructions and leave consent somewhat ambiguous.
Or you can just throw all rules away for good and make up completely new ones.

But even if that fantasy then is fit to serve as fuel for the very same urges that drive people to practice BDSM, they're not one and the same. The ethical distinction between what is and isn't BDSM doesn't change.

When I'm specifically looking for BDSM content, I want to find BDSM and not what's clearly rape or abuse.
There's a reason we have separate tags for those on this very site, even if they aren't always used correctly.

 

[MilanWT]

Game in with a female protagonist is signing a consensual slavery contract and after some time she want's to break it and leave but breaking the contract is not an option. Would any BDSM sex act after that considered as a act of rape of some kind ?