I like netorare (NTR) but prefer when it's avoidable

[Okariin]

Hi,
I only saw one post treating this exact subject and it's dead so I decided to create one.

Some people like to see themselfs as the bull, some just like the fact that their girl gets fucked by another man, for me the best part in netorare is seeing the girl getting corrupted, I don't enjoy games where the girl is gonna cheat for a stupid reason right at the beginning or games where the MC likes to share. I'm not an incest fan but enjoy games where u can get your mom corrupted.

Most part of the time on game threads, or in the replies when we see people saying NTR is avoidable, seems like it's to not repel non NTR lovers. But in my case I prefer when it's avoidable, like when there's atleast two paths romance/harem and NTR.

My point is for some people like me NTR is even more enjoyable when it's avoidable, like making the "bad" choices that lead to that and seeing the girl getting slowly corrupted is even more enjoyable, why are many people repelled by avoidable NTR, like it should be even more enjoyable for non NTR lovers to have a romance or harem situation knowing that u made the girl(s) avoid a bad situation and that they won't cheat on you even if they could.

I add a poll to this thread to see your opinion on that.

 

[Cosy Creator]

I think people dislike avoidable NTR because it still reflects on the nature of the character that has been written in the mind of the reader, even if it's not supposed to. A good LI (from a non-NTR enjoyer's perspective) would never even consider cheating, it would be completely at odds with her personality. But with avoidable NTR, that's no longer the case. She doesn't not cheat because she's written as a loyal woman, she simply doesn't cheat because the player pressed a different button.

 

[Pitrik]

 

[fitgirlbestgirl]

I have no interest in NTR but I do like cuckolding, which for autistic reasons falls under the same tag.

 

[MarshmallowCasserole]

My point is for some people like me NTR is even more enjoyable when it's avoidable, like making the "bad" choices that lead to that and seeing the girl getting slowly corrupted is even more enjoyable, why are many people repelled by avoidable NTR, like it should be even more enjoyable for non NTR lovers to have a romance or harem situation knowing that u made the girl(s) avoid a bad situation and that they won't cheat on you even if they could.

Personally, I'm with you, at least in theory. I like my games to have a failure state, which makes reaching a success state satisfying.

However, my guess is that there is a large cohort of people that want an exact opposite of that, they want a safe cuddly experience where they just bumble into success (harem), and the mere possibility of an abject failure induces anxiety and that sours their experience.

And beyond that, in practice there's also the fact that in some cases branching in adult games has outrageously bad logic (would you like tea or coffee? tea: harem ending; coffee: your girl gets stolen.) That obviously makes for a bad experience regardless what your desired outcome is, so maybe not having NTR route at all is better than having NTR shoved down your throat because you had the audacity to pick coffee.

 

[Okariin]

However, my guess is that there is a large cohort of people that want an exact opposite of that, they want a safe cuddly experience where they just bumble into success (harem), and the mere possibility of an abject failure induces anxiety and that sours their experience.

And beyond that, in practice there's also the fact that in some cases branching in adult games has outrageously bad logic (would you like tea or coffee? tea: harem ending; coffee: your girl gets stolen.) That obviously makes for a bad experience regardless what your desired outcome is, so maybe not having NTR route at all is better than having NTR shoved down your throat because you had the audacity to pick coffee.

I like to get NTR routes, but as I said what I like about it is seeing the girl getting slowly corrupted, so for me the games should slowly devlopped the routes, like in a first time let's say you get the choice to present a guy to your girl, or something like that, then u reinvite him to your home, u leave him alone with your girl, so obivously bad choices that you can clearly see and understand, and it's after many of them that something can start happening, and not only 1 bad decision, even I don't like games with NTR where the choices ain't really clear, and that the girl get's corrupted or cheat after 1 or 2 bad decisions, it has to be something slowly devlopped, for me good examples may be games like "Struggle with sin" many girls with double paths but it is slowly devlopped or more recently "Winter Warmth" you get to see the girls corruption, love, etc and really have to make it on purpose to go NTR path.

But even if I made a post, I think it's clearly something personal, even among NTR lovers not everybody would see it the same way, I totally get that some people don't wanna see NTR at all, like not even see their girl mention some other guy, but if the game is well made every player should be able to find happiness.
There is games where you can just disable NTR in menu settings but I don't think it's a good thing, maybe because I like NTR, but for me people who wanna avoid NTR should do it with a choice in game. But as I said I may see it that way just cause I like NTR.

And even if I understand that people really hate NTR, i'm like there are themes that I really don't like like gay stuff, futa, scat, and incest, but like if it's not the main theme of the game, and the choices to get it or not are clear, I wouldn't deprive myself of playing because there are themes that I don't like if I know that I can totally avoid it.

 

[Ying Ko]

Personally, I'm with you, at least in theory. I like my games to have a failure state, which makes reaching a success state satisfying.

However, my guess is that there is a large cohort of people that want an exact opposite of that, they want a safe cuddly experience where they just bumble into success (harem), and the mere possibility of an abject failure induces anxiety and that sours their experience.

The problem with netorare isn't that it's a failure state, the problem is that it's a fetishized example of a failure state that demonstrably undermines the appeal of the very characters that people play these games for.

 

[DawnCry]

Personally I'm all in for avoidable NTR however it needs to fall under some conditions:

-Do not make the MC into a pathetic mess if it happens, just let him accept it and move on.
-Do not make it into a big drama, just be chill about it.

An example would be a strategy game in which your generals can be captured, same for the enemy ones, does NTR happen? it can happen if your generals get captured, is it a drama? it depends on the writing, however you can recover your generals and also capture more which is the key of the game.

To be fair there is some conflict between avoidable NTR fans and both harem and NTR fans, since we want a deserved win and consequences for failing we tend to conflict with most harem fans that just want a game with no negative consequences in that aspect and the problem with NTR fans is that many times they want the NTR to hit hard while if you don't have a NTR fetish then you want it as soft as possible.

 

[MarshmallowCasserole]

The problem with netorare isn't that it's a failure state, the problem is that it's a fetishized example of a failure state that demonstrably undermines the appeal of the very characters that people play these games for.

I'm not sure I understand you, assuming perfect branching, i.e. there is zero contamination with the netorare route. Can you give an example?

Also I'm gonna point out that you've just basically used NTR and netorare interchangeably. Don't. (This is a discussion that always fucking arises because the term is used differently and rather liberally, by affictionados and haters. But it is what it is).

 

[4-kun]

It's actually not so easy to answer; it depends on how NTR is implemented in the game.

If the game's purpose is solely NTR, so unavoidable, and you play the cuck, that's not very appealing to me.^^
If you are the one behind the NTR, it's mostly okay, as long as it's corruption and not some rape shit.

There are also a few very dark NTR games where the main focus is to deliver to the player an unpleasant feeling, let him feel powerless, etc. I can enjoy the thrill of such games, not because of the scenes, but for their dark story, and only if there is some kind of 'good' ending, even if NTR is unavoidable.

Overall, I don't like generic lazy written stories with even dumber characters, it's just boring to me, I still may look up the scenes without context

 

[Noah Neim]

Alot of times i'm just confused as to why they pay so much attention to the guy who got cucked
Like, i'll give doujins for an example, they'll give you an entire backstory and several panels of the guy's perspective
I know someone might say "imagine yourself as the bull" but that's not the issue here
Ntr almost feels like a direct insult to you, the reader, because it is through the cuck that we see the world, the NARRATIVE itself follows the cuck, not the bull, if rarely.

I think it should be avoidable natrually, and i dont mean a route, just an option to not be in the game at all, or maybe just not implemented in the first place because i simply can't like it
But that's a problem with hgames in general, sure, some games have certain audiences, but when games purpusfully cast a large net with generic fetishes and promises of good art and gameplay, alot more people would jump in, and then get disappointed when a fetish they dont like/despise is included
What i mean is, alot of games should consider some LT level of customizability, especially if they want to cast the largest audience into their game
It only has benefits
1.You include both depraved and vanilla stuff, allowing for fans of both to come
2. BUT you make both interchangable, if a vanilla player doesnt want even a spec of ntr, it should litteraly be turned off, like no route at all, like a game option, if the ntr is turned on, fucking up leads to ntr, but if it's turned off, fucking up is just a game over or some other option depending on the context


Another aspect of why it's heavily disliked is cause it's so forced, like digustingly so
"n-nooo protag-kun, i'm sorry, i just couldnt resist, his cock is too good" no woman would actually say this
I'm not talking about realism, im talking about the absurdism here
Relationships DO end due to bad sex, and people MIGHT cheat
But the thing is, in these stories where ntr is an option (or ntr doujins), the relationship between protag and their lover is VERY good, but poor virgin small dicked protag simply can't satisfy him/her, they need a big dick alpha or something like that
LIKE HOLY SHIT, JUST TALK TO EACH OTHER, YOU DO NOT NEED A DICKING YOU NEED A COMMUNICATION CLASS
I got a bit angry there, but ntr just annoys me so much by how poorly written it is
Spicy stories of cheating are certaintly possible, and i dont care about the fact that the cheating happened, i can totally beat my dick to it if it's good enough.
But ntr creators dont try AT ALL to create a spicy story of betrayal, regret and mistakes, it's just "you suck at sex, your girlfriend went to the tan highschool boy, you are now a cuck, please use terms like 'beta' and 'alpha' unironically from now on"


Like my fucking god, please try a little
And i havent even started about fucking 'blackmail'


Anyways, i went off track a little


Ntr shouldn't be avoidable, it should be OPTIONAL CONTENT, and those are very different
Simply make it go like this: Your partner tries to talk to you about their relationship (they feel like you arent putting in enough effort/ you dont care about them/ your sex life is bad) you ignore them, they try and try again, and like a shitty person, you put them down, ignore them, insult them, whatever.
Now, heres where the ntr setting comes in, if its turned off, they simply... break up with you? like a normal person, a bad relationship is ended unless there's special circumstances (abuse, kids, finanace and such), you get a breakup event, then a game over screen
BUT, if we turn the ntr setting on, the game doesnt end, the partner starts cheating on you, and then the game proceeds with the possible ntr endings, basically, an alterante timeline instead of canonical timeline

This way, both vanilla and ntr fans are happy, vanilla fans can happily fall in love knowing that them being cheated on isnt a canon thing that can happen
Ntr fans can stroke their dicks wheter in relishment of being the bull or the cuck, if that's what they desire
Everyone wins

Sorry for the long ass post, even the summary is long lol

 

[qwoppe]

I can't vote for any of these since I enjoy both NTR-only and non-NTR games, but separately. There's a 2 exceptions I can think of, but for the most part optional NTR games either have half-assed NTR subplots or half-assed non-NTR subplots.

Weirdly enough, both of the said exception games are futa protag games.

 

[4-kun]

Alot of times i'm just confused as to why they pay so much attention to the guy who got cucked
Like, i'll give doujins for an example, they'll give you an entire backstory and several panels of the guy's perspective
I know someone might say "imagine yourself as the bull" but that's not the issue here
Ntr almost feels like a direct insult to you, the reader, because it is through the cuck that we see the world, the NARRATIVE itself follows the cuck, not the bull, if rarely.

I think it should be avoidable natrually, and i dont mean a route, just an option to not be in the game at all, or maybe just not implemented in the first place because i simply can't like it
But that's a problem with hgames in general, sure, some games have certain audiences, but when games purpusfully cast a large net with generic fetishes and promises of good art and gameplay, alot more people would jump in, and then get disappointed when a fetish they dont like/despise is included
What i mean is, alot of games should consider some LT level of customizability, especially if they want to cast the largest audience into their game
It only has benefits
1.You include both depraved and vanilla stuff, allowing for fans of both to come
2. BUT you make both interchangable, if a vanilla player doesnt want even a spec of ntr, it should litteraly be turned off, like no route at all, like a game option, if the ntr is turned on, fucking up leads to ntr, but if it's turned off, fucking up is just a game over or some other option depending on the context


Another aspect of why it's heavily disliked is cause it's so forced, like digustingly so
"n-nooo protag-kun, i'm sorry, i just couldnt resist, his cock is too good" no woman would actually say this
I'm not talking about realism, im talking about the absurdism here
Relationships DO end due to bad sex, and people MIGHT cheat
But the thing is, in these stories where ntr is an option (or ntr doujins), the relationship between protag and their lover is VERY good, but poor virgin small dicked protag simply can't satisfy him/her, they need a big dick alpha or something like that
LIKE HOLY SHIT, JUST TALK TO EACH OTHER, YOU DO NOT NEED A DICKING YOU NEED A COMMUNICATION CLASS
I got a bit angry there, but ntr just annoys me so much by how poorly written it is
Spicy stories of cheating are certaintly possible, and i dont care about the fact that the cheating happened, i can totally beat my dick to it if it's good enough.
But ntr creators dont try AT ALL to create a spicy story of betrayal, regret and mistakes, it's just "you suck at sex, your girlfriend went to the tan highschool boy, you are now a cuck, please use terms like 'beta' and 'alpha' unironically from now on"


Like my fucking god, please try a little
And i havent even started about fucking 'blackmail'


Anyways, i went off track a little


Ntr shouldn't be avoidable, it should be OPTIONAL CONTENT, and those are very different
Simply make it go like this: Your partner tries to talk to you about their relationship (they feel like you arent putting in enough effort/ you dont care about them/ your sex life is bad) you ignore them, they try and try again, and like a shitty person, you put them down, ignore them, insult them, whatever.
Now, heres where the ntr setting comes in, if its turned off, they simply... break up with you? like a normal person, a bad relationship is ended unless there's special circumstances (abuse, kids, finanace and such), you get a breakup event, then a game over screen
BUT, if we turn the ntr setting on, the game doesnt end, the partner starts cheating on you, and then the game proceeds with the possible ntr endings, basically, an alterante timeline instead of canonical timeline

This way, both vanilla and ntr fans are happy, vanilla fans can happily fall in love knowing that them being cheated on isnt a canon thing that can happen
Ntr fans can stroke their dicks wheter in relishment of being the bull or the cuck, if that's what they desire
Everyone wins

Sorry for the long ass post, even the summary is long lol

I understand your points, and honestly, I also much more prefer NTR to be a choice. But, on the other hand, it's a very specific genre, and people play it for different reasons. Someone likes to see others suffer, someone likes the thrill of cheating, someone likes to be cucked.

So I wouldn't go as far as to say that all NTR games should have a choice; everyone has their own guilty pleasure.^^

However, I totally agree on bad writing. There are only a few NTR games with a decent depiction of characters and story. Most importantly, it's as simple as not knowing how to write believable characters, especially women. It feels like in 99% of the games, women are just frustrated office ladies/housewives, sexy nurses, brainless warriors/mages/clerics/childhood friends, etc. with no morality, but lusting bodies.

On a side note, as I mentioned, there are dark NTR games with unavoidable content. However, that is part of the story; it's about the MC enduring, suffering, but still fighting to the end to save his beloved ones. I can enjoy this kind of NTR games, but not for the scenes; it's because of the story. The most exciting moment in these games is when you beat it with a 'good' ending. painfull and bittersweet at the same time.

 

[Sizzin]

While I love netori. As of now, I can't really say I like or dislike netorare, I'm on the fence. For me, it really depends on how the girl and the MC reacts to the situation.

I don't like it when:
- It has drama, any kind.
- This is basically included in the above, but, when the girl is suffering, either mentally or physically during the netorare. Which is basically just rape, and I hate seeing women and children suffering in any situation. VNDB names this: "Netorare Type C".

I don't mind it when:
- It's a bullshit story when the girl becomes a nympho almost immediately.
- When, for some kind of miracle, the girl does not get attached emotionally with the other guy/s and it's in it just for the sex.
- When the protagonist is not the usual spineless coward. In this case, the story can have drama, the girl can be suffering or anything (as long as it's a small story and not a chinese webnovel with 10,000+ chapters) and I won't mind, because I know the MC will do what's best for him by the end. <- Here I'd probably be more interested in the story than the porn.

An example of a netorare I don't like: 203978. And an example of one I like/don't mind: 441036 (this one is basically netorase, though).

In actuality, what I really like is the process of: before, during and after the girl's submission. I'm a bit of an S myself, so I love seeing a girl getting dominated. And the basic goal of netorare is for the girl to be stolen after all. I'd be all for some "S&M vanilla", but these are quite rare...

Overall, I don't tend to take the plot too seriously when I'm playing a porn game, I'm not expecting much, after all. So I'm usually quite tolerant with netorare. But let's say I'm playing some serious VN with a deep plot, world building and character development.

For example, Fate/Stay Night. If during the story, you make Shiro chooses to go to an arcade to play games the whole night or something and Saber cheated on him with Shinji because of that. This kind of netorare is bullshit and it would completely destroy the image I have of Saber and I would never take her character seriously in any other multiverse.

On the other, the game DO have netorare. And even though it's the type I just mentioned I don't like, it makes sense (kinda), it's written well and does not undermine the netorare'd character in any way.

A bit convoluted, but that's what I mean by "it depends on how the heroine and MC reacts to the situation".

Also I'm gonna point out that you've just basically used NTR and netorare interchangeably. Don't.

Just out of curiosity, why shouldn't they use NTR and netorare interchangeably? I mean, I dislike when things are tagged just as NTR, because then you don't know if it's netorare or netori. But in this case, the topic is obvious about netorare, so using the whole world or the abbreviation shouldn't matter, or so I'd like to think.

Ntr shouldn't be avoidable, it should be OPTIONAL CONTENT, and those are very different
Simply make it go like this: Your partner tries to talk to you about their relationship (they feel like you arent putting in enough effort/ you dont care about them/ your sex life is bad) you ignore them, they try and try again, and like a shitty person, you put them down, ignore them, insult them, whatever.
Now, heres where the ntr setting comes in, if its turned off, they simply... break up with you? like a normal person, a bad relationship is ended unless there's special circumstances (abuse, kids, finanace and such), you get a breakup event, then a game over screen
BUT, if we turn the ntr setting on, the game doesnt end, the partner starts cheating on you, and then the game proceeds with the possible ntr endings, basically, an alterante timeline instead of canonical timeline

I agree with the "should be optional, not avoidable", even though both words have about the same meaning in this context. But the "avoidable netorare" feels like constantly dodging bombs coming your way at any time. And while this kind of setting you used as an example wouldn't work for every scenario, specially when it includes rape/blackmail, it's much better than the "I can't live without his dick anymore" usual bs.
In these types of game with avoidable netorare, I usually try to play the first time following the non-netorare route and when I finish, I go again to do that "Ok, I was the good guy and finished the game with everything perfect. Now let's play again and choose all the wrong choices" playthrough.

 

[MarshmallowCasserole]

Just out of curiosity, why shouldn't they use NTR and netorare interchangeably? I mean, I dislike when things are tagged just as NTR, because then you don't know if it's netorare or netori. But in this case, the topic is obvious about netorare, so using the whole world or the abbreviation shouldn't matter, or so I'd like to think.

Because you said it yourself, one is used as an umbrella term, the other is a narrower category. That's not interchangeable. If that is not a reason good enough on its own, then consider it a good mental habit to practice a bit of discipline with the terms that are a bit... contentious.

 

[fidgetspinner]

I think people dislike avoidable NTR because it still reflects on the nature of the character that has been written in the mind of the reader, even if it's not supposed to. A good LI (from a non-NTR enjoyer's perspective) would never even consider cheating, it would be completely at odds with her personality. But with avoidable NTR, that's no longer the case. She doesn't not cheat because she's written as a loyal woman, she simply doesn't cheat because the player pressed a different button.

Clearly the poll is showing you the opposite. Anti-NTR people are against avoidable NTR because from their limited perspective the fact a single instance in the multiverse that fictional character is getting dicked by a different fictional character is enraging them. A good avoidable NTR game would require the player to be a dick (Let's be honest the MC in most games here is not a good person) and ignore the LIs/potential LIs. It's simply normal for someone to seek another partner when your partner is a dick like most are in Harem games.

I like avoidable NTR for the same reason I like RPG and games like Until Dawn. It's choice driven. You get consequence from not respecting the LI or not paying her attention. It's a shame it's such a rare tag and instead we're stuck with those game where MC is a complete wimp who can't do anything right or it's Chad Thundercock simulator where it doesn't matter he'll get all the girls. both completely remove the ability to choose from the player.

 

[Jgriz04]

I love netorare, though I prefer darker themes. I don’t really care about the MC in the story and rarely view the story from the perspective of him. Instead, I tend to view the story from a 3rd party perspective, as though I am reading a book.

I tend to prefer games where the mc can make choices where the women are placed in situations to be taken advantage of, hence how I alluded to darker themes.

I absolutely hate games/stories where the females turn into unrealistic nymphos, but then I also prefer games with dubious consent. I like consensual corruption when it is a slow burn and there is a level of initial resistance.