I want to write a Choose Your Own Adventure game

[Nobody Cares]

A few days ago I started writing down erotica just for fun. I had my wife reading a few passages and we agree that it seems to be coming along surprisingly nicely. I think it might actually make a good Choose Your Own Adventure story and I was wondering if the community could give me a few pointers.

Here is a the premise:
- It is a parody of the dark elves from Dungeons and Dragons, a society solely composed of females and futas;
- It would cover many fetishes with a big focus on incest, futa on female, futa on futa and tentacles;
- It would be text only with little to no art, at least until it gains some traction.

My questions are as follows:
- What would be the best format for this game? (I am a decent writer, mediocre coder and terrible visual artist)?
- How much content should it have for a solid launch (word count wise)?
- How big would be the audiance for this sort of thing?

 

[Rafster]

1. CHYOA games usually gravitate to the HTML platform. Being Twine the dev tool used by many developers, including myself
2. The more, the better, but I can't give you an exact number. People expect at least 20-30 minutes of duration, but I'm not an expert with pure text games (mine likely is, but use real porn too and is more like a free roam game)
3. Not big, especially if you aim for a text-only game without pictures

 

[Nobody Cares]

Thanks for the quick reply and excellent pointers . I do plan to add some good art, but first I would like to see if the story itself manages to stand on it's own.

 

[Deleted member 1952336]

If you do plan to add art eventually, Renpy is great for this. An advantage of Renpy is that you can export it as an executable for all system types. Most devs on this forum use Renpy. Renpy is extremely simple and easy to learn, but has the capability for embedding python if you need more complex behavior later on.

Twine is useful if you want to export as HTML and have people be able to play your game on websites or in their browser. Twine requires no scripting but renpy is easy.

Typical launch is 1 hour of content.
The average person reads around 39 words per minute. So that's around 2,340 words for your first version. It could be less for VN's that have animation and things that slow down reading speed. Usually devs will spend at least a year in development of version one before launching, but it may be somewhat less if you are launching without pictures, or more depending on your schedule.

Audience size depends on how good it is. At least one of the top ten adult VN creators on patreon is text only but around 95% of all adult visual novels, no matter the genera will have little/no support on patreon and little to no audience/interest because this is a global competition for people's attention, and we're not only competing with each other (there are thousands of VNs on this website) but with every book that's ever been written, every movie that's ever been made, every porn video and comic online, etc. We are competing with billions of different works of entertainment available to people, many of which were created by hardworking creative and intelligent developers. So polishing, rewriting, and taking your time before releasing version one is critical if you want any sort of audience.

 

[Nobody Cares]

If you do plan to add art eventually, Renpy is great for this. An advantage of Renpy is that you can export it as an executable for all system types. Most devs on this forum use Renpy. Renpy is extremely simple and easy to learn, but has the capability for embedding python if you need more complex behavior later on.

Twine is useful if you want to export as HTML and have people be able to play your game on websites or in their browser. Twine requires no scripting but renpy is easy.

Typical launch is 1 hour of content.
The average person reads around 39 words per minute. So that's around 2,340 words for your first version. It could be less for VN's that have animation and things that slow down reading speed. Usually devs will spend at least a year in development of version one before launching, but it may be somewhat less if you are launching without pictures, or more depending on your schedule.

Audience size depends on how good it is. At least one of the top ten adult VN creators on patreon is text only but around 95% of all adult visual novels, no matter the genera will have little/no support on patreon and little to no audience/interest because this is a global competition for people's attention, and we're not only competing with each other (there are thousands of VNs on this website) but with every book that's ever been written, every movie that's ever been made, every porn video and comic online, etc. We are competing with billions of different works of entertainment available to people, many of which were created by hardworking creative and intelligent developers. So polishing, rewriting, and taking your time before releasing version one is critical if you want any sort of audience.

Thank you for the pointers. I love Renpy but maybe Twine is a little bit more up my alley. I'll give it a try.
I'm currently about 2/3 through my first draft at it already is 8000 words long (divided in four different paths), it will easly be 12000 words by the end. Is it getting perhaps a tad bit too long?
As for audiance, support and competition...well that is to be expected. But, what the hell, we do it for the glory! As long as even one person has fapped to enjoyed my story, I will be happy.

 

[Deleted member 1952336]

Thank you for the pointers. I love Renpy but maybe Twine is a little bit more up my alley. I'll give it a try.
I'm currently about 2/3 through my first draft at it already is 8000 words long (divided in four different paths), it will easly be 12000 words by the end. Is it getting perhaps a tad bit too long?

That's not too long. People here want a huge amount of content. If people like your story, they will always want more of it. If you polish up the first two thousand words you could release a version 0.1.0. Generally people want polished story pieces in releases, rather than getting more of the story but unpolished.

 

[Alcahest]

Standard ren'py games suck for text heavy games because they have one or two lines per click. It's so tedious. So why use ren'py for a text game instead of something that suits it better out of the box. There is a reason the big text titles use html, flash, or java.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Standard ren'py games suck for text heavy games because they have one or two lines per click.

They have as many lines you want, because the dialog box is totally configurable ; anyway by default you can fit five lines. Plus, Ren'Py also have a NVL mode that don't rely on the dialog box and, by default, use all the screen.
Interns of Ecstacy Island is one of the few games using this NVL approach. Even if they are really small, the screenshots show clearly that Ren'Py can perfectly deal with text heavy games. And it's really not difficult, one value changed to pass on NVL mode, view value tweaked to configure the NVL screen as you want, and it's done.

 

[Alcahest]

They have as many lines you want, because the dialog box is totally configurable ; anyway by default you can fit five lines. Plus, Ren'Py also have a NVL mode that don't rely on the dialog box and, by default, use all the screen.
Interns of Ecstacy Island is one of the few games using this NVL approach. Even if they are really small, the screenshots show clearly that Ren'Py can perfectly deal with text heavy games. And it's really not difficult, one value changed to pass on NVL mode, view value tweaked to configure the NVL screen as you want, and it's done.

That's why I said standard, ie how almost all ren'py games work. Testing that game you linked, there is a still a lot of clicking to display another few lines of text, whereas in the typical text games, you see all text at once. Because the idea in text games is to read text, not spend your time clicking for another line of text. Personally, I get tired of the typical ren'py game after a minute of click-click-click. But obviously, ren'py devs get away with it seeing how many successful ren'py games there are.

Anyway, just because you could customize ren'py to do other stuff too, the fact is that ren'py is a visual novels engine. I'm sure you can use Unreal to make a text-only game, doesn't mean it is "the best format for this game", as was asked for.

With Twine, you can just type all the text you want, add a link to the next passage and you're done. Can't be easier.

That said, I would love to see a ren'py text game that worked like a text game is supposed to, ie for reading text, not clicking.

 

[anne O'nymous]

That's why I said standard, ie how almost all ren'py games work.

Still not. It's how almost all authors, on the scene, using Ren'Py decide to make their game, what is different. But the NVL mode is as standard and native as the Adventure mode usually used.

Testing that game you linked, there is a still a lot of clicking to display another few lines of text, whereas in the typical text games, you see all text at once.

There's a lot of clicking because the author decided that there will be a lot of clicking. But he could perfectly show a full page at once without having to change anything.
You judge Ren'Py by the way people use it, and not by how it effectively works.

Anyway, just because you could customize ren'py to do other stuff too, the fact is that ren'py is a visual novels engine. I'm sure you can use Unreal to make a text-only game, doesn't mean it is "the best format for this game", as was asked for.

The difference being that Unreal is not natively designed to works that way. While, for Ren'Py, it's not just native, the NVL mode is its historical mode.

With Twine, you can just type all the text you want, add a link to the next passage and you're done. Can't be easier.

Yeah, you are right, it's way more complicated to do the same with Ren'py...

This is a NVL game in Ren'Py:

define MC = Character( "MC name", kind=nvl )
define narrator = nvl_narrator
define menu = nvl_menu

label start:
    "Big narration part for around a thousand words"

    menu:
        "What direction do you want to follow ?"
        "South":
            MC "Ok, I'll go south"
            jump south
        "North":
            MC "Ok, I'll go north"
            jump north

label south:
    nvl clear
    "Big narration part for around a thousand words"
    [...]

label north:
    nvl clear
    "Big narration part for around a thousand words"
    [...]

And that's all... A property when you create the character, two assignations to turn the engine in NVL mode, and Ren'Py suddenly turned into a game engine that can handle games with heavy text. This without loosing all its advantage.

 

[woody554]

html was literally invented for hyper text ie. choose your own adventure text. renpy works nicely if you're dialogue heavy, extremely badly if you're narration heavy. but also having different routes might land you into 'sandbox' territory which gets disgustingy messy fast in renpy.

also I would 100% advice against any idea of 'adding complex mechanics later'. have your format simple and locked before you start, it's gonna be hard enough even without having to rewrite everything. which will 100% happen if you try to add complex stuff later.

but it of course all depends on what you can do. all of them are certainly possible if you so choose. you can learn anything, it's not magic. but it takes 10x more work than writing.

I would relinquish any thoughts about 'gaining traction' or 'big audience' or making money for the project. if that in any way plays a role in your decision to make it, you won't survive the reality of not getting a dime and nobody caring. you need to do it for yourself. both your platform and kinks are a small niche, and it takes a looong time to gain any following even in the FOTM market. you will gain some fans for sure though, everything has its audience.

but the games scoring big bucks are outliers, a combination of years of persistence, PURE LUCK, and unwittingly having been in the right spot at the exact moment lightning strikes. thousands always try to repeat the formula and maybe 2 outf 1000 will have any success. not nearly as much as the first one, but some mediocre success.

so do it for yourself, maybe the wife, and you'll always be winning when you finish a scene. you can shake the money tree all you like but you'll just find out you were shaking the frustration tree, and we'll get another game with 'abandoned' tag after 3 updates tops.

 

[Alcahest]

When I wrote my first post, I knew you would object just like you're doing now because everytime someone says ren'py is not the best fit for something, you say that it can be done, no matter if it's a text game, a platformer, or a 3D realtime rendered shoot'em up.

Still not. It's how almost all authors, on the scene, using Ren'Py decide to make their game

Which is exactly what I meant.

You judge Ren'Py by the way people use it, and not by how it effectively works.

Because the best way of predicting what people will do, is history. Unless you hand someone a ready-to-use ren'py solution that is made for text, they are likely to use ren'py like everyone else uses it.

 

[Nobody Cares]

html was literally invented for hyper text ie. choose your own adventure text. renpy works nicely if you're dialogue heavy, extremely badly if you're narration heavy. but also having different routes might land you into 'sandbox' territory which gets disgustingy messy fast in renpy.

also I would 100% advice against any idea of 'adding complex mechanics later'. have your format simple and locked before you start, it's gonna be hard enough even without having to rewrite everything. which will 100% happen if you try to add complex stuff later.

but it of course all depends on what you can do. all of them are certainly possible if you so choose. you can learn anything, it's not magic. but it takes 10x more work than writing.

I would relinquish any thoughts about 'gaining traction' or 'big audience' or making money for the project. if that in any way plays a role in your decision to make it, you won't survive the reality of not getting a dime and nobody caring. you need to do it for yourself. both your platform and kinks are a small niche, and it takes a looong time to gain any following even in the FOTM market. you will gain some fans for sure though, everything has its audience.

but the games scoring big bucks are outliers, a combination of years of persistence, PURE LUCK, and unwittingly having been in the right spot at the exact moment lightning strikes. thousands always try to repeat the formula and maybe 2 outf 1000 will have any success. not nearly as much as the first one, but some mediocre success.

so do it for yourself, maybe the wife, and you'll always be winning when you finish a scene. you can shake the money tree all you like but you'll just find out you were shaking the frustration tree, and we'll get another game with 'abandoned' tag after 3 updates tops.

Thank you, that is a lot of very useful information . I will try to keep my expectations low and just do what I do best. I never meant to do this for the money, I just love writing and enjoy this sort of games (perhaps a little too much )
I'll try to keep the project simple and the passion alive. Should it somewhen somehow make a few bucks I'll use those to hire an artist and draw a few illustrations.

Wish me luck!

 

[Deleted member 1952336]

Thank you, that is a lot of very useful information . I will try to keep my expectations low and just do what I do best. I never meant to do this for the money, I just love writing and enjoy this sort of games (perhaps a little too much )
I'll try to keep the project simple and the passion alive. Should it somewhen somehow make a few bucks I'll use those to hire an artist and draw a few illustrations.

Wish me luck!

Good luck! Tell the story you want to tell! Have lots of fun with it! Will keep an eye out.

 

[anne O'nymous]

When I wrote my first post, I knew you would object just like you're doing now because everytime someone says ren'py is not the best fit for something, you say that it can be done, no matter if it's a text game, a platformer, or a 3D realtime rendered shoot'em up.

Well, you should read better then. I don't care when people say that Ren'Py isn't the best fit. I care when they wrongly say that it can't do this or that. Yet only when it can, what mean that I don't care when it come to real time 3D. In fact, I always said that it's not the engine one should choice for this ; do not confuse old school 3D (Castle Wolfenstein-like games) with real time 3D.

Which is exactly what I meant.

Then why write "standard Ren'Py", when you meant "typical games made with Ren'Py", except to be nice enough to occupy me ?

Because the best way of predicting what people will do, is history. Unless you hand someone a ready-to-use ren'py solution that is made for text, they are likely to use ren'py like everyone else uses it.

Interesting. So, since on the scene Unity is mostly used to make VN, I guess that it's also not an engine that can deal with heavy text based games ? :/

 

[Alcahest]

Then why write "standard Ren'Py", when you meant "typical games made with Ren'Py", except to be nice enough to occupy me ?

I actually considered making it very clear what I meant specifically to avoid you joining in to defend ren'py because you misunderstood what I meant. But I'm lazy so I didn't. And I paid the price.

 

[Nobody Cares]

Well, toying around with Ren'py I'd say it's an excellent tool, if you know what your are doing. Which I don't .

 

[Nobody Cares]

Disclaimer: I'm not sure I should open a new thread or continue on this one. I doubt I'll write here, do correct me if I should not.

So I've been polishing the first chapter for a while and, if I am allowed to say so myself, it seems to be quite nice.
It's nearly 19.000 words, divided in a few differents paths. It is rather linear and going through it twice, you should've read everything there is to read. It would be nice to have a native speaker proof read this (I am Italian) but I hesitate to show this to my very conservative Canadian friend!

Twine was an excellent tool to toy around with (Thanks again to Woody, Ortus and Rafster). I added a few hidden variables that influence how some of the characters act, not much at the moment, but I plan to use this feature a lot more in future chapters.
I think the story as it is would make a solid Cha 1.0 launch. So what should I do next.

I read the the Game Uploading thread and I could really use some help with the following points

1. You must provide 3 or more mirrors where possible, using only Approved File Hosts.

Any mirrors that are preferable?

1. All images should be uploaded
   You must be registered to see the links
   , do not use third party image hosts.

Are screen of the text ok? Like a reading sample

1. There must always be a 'cover image', with a max file size of 500KB, or 5MB if it's an animated GIF.

I really don't know what should I do with this. Should I hire an artist to make a proper cover? Where could I possibly find the right one? How much could that cost?

Also, can I simply upload the game on my own or should I first go through a moderator or an administrator.

Sorry if any of these questions sound dumb, but I'm really new to this

 

[Alcahest]

Disclaimer: I'm not sure I should open a new thread or continue on this one. I doubt I'll write here, do correct me if I should not.

So I've been polishing the first chapter for a while and, if I am allowed to say so myself, it seems to be quite nice.
It's nearly 19.000 words, divided in a few differents paths. It is rather linear and going through it twice, you should've read everything there is to read. It would be nice to have a native speaker proof read this (I am Italian) but I hesitate to show this to my very conservative Canadian friend!

Twine was an excellent tool to toy around with (Thanks again to Woody, Ortus and Rafster). I added a few hidden variables that influence how some of the characters act, not much at the moment, but I plan to use this feature a lot more in future chapters.
I think the story as it is would make a solid Cha 1.0 launch. So what should I do next.

I read the the Game Uploading thread and I could really use some help with the following points

1. You must provide 3 or more mirrors where possible, using only Approved File Hosts.

Any mirrors that are preferable?

1. All images should be uploaded
   You must be registered to see the links
   , do not use third party image hosts.

Are screen of the text ok? Like a reading sample

1. There must always be a 'cover image', with a max file size of 500KB, or 5MB if it's an animated GIF.

I really don't know what should I do with this. Should I hire an artist to make a proper cover? Where could I possibly find the right one? How much could that cost?

Also, can I simply upload the game on my own or should I first go through a moderator or an administrator.

Sorry if any of these questions sound dumb, but I'm really new to this

You can't post games, so you have to request a game thread to be created. When you do, you can follow some or all of the template in the game uploading rules if you want, but if you're not sure, don't bother with it. Just request to have your game added here (1 link to the game is enough):
https://f95zone.to/forums/game-requests.3/ and read the request rules here (ignore the Other Information part since it's your own game):
https://f95zone.to/threads/game-requesting-rules-2018-august-09.36/

Then you can ask about being made owner to the game thread they will add. Once you are owner, you can check out the game uploading rules again. You can show screenshots of the game, whatever it looks like, 100% text is fine. The cover can be whatever you want it to be. My cover is just a screenshot of the main menu.

 

[Nobody Cares]

Thanks mate