Daz Is Gen9 worth it over 8.1?

[PumpyDev]

Hello,

I haven't been around Daz in a while and was wondering whether artists consider Gen9 to be worth working with over 8.1? After a quick skim it seems like there are still not that many available asserts for Gen9 compared to 8.1, and most characters I've seen for Gen9 do not look particularly great. Is there some consensus on what model is best to currently work with?

 

[MissFortune]

As always, it depends. What are you looking to do? How fast are you looking to do it? What kind of hardware are you packing? AVN or one-off renders? How experienced are you?

Generally speaking, I think G9 is leagues better for the androgyny alone. No more needing to buy male or female clothes and can use them on both. Same for hairs, etc. Some people seem to disagree, saying that the only difference is the 8K normals, but I feel like G9 interacts with lighting far more realistically than 8.1 does. But in that same vein, I think G9 also leaves a less experienced dev more exposed to obvious flaws.

The better your knowledge of cinematic lighting and composition, the better a well-made G9 figure will look. 8.1 will still look good in the same setup, but so would G8 and G3. But none will be particularly close to G9 from the perspective of visual fidelity, imo.

 

[no_more_name]

The better your knowledge of cinematic lighting and composition, the better a well-made G9 figure will look. 8.1 will still look good in the same setup, but so would G8 and G3. But none will be particularly close to G9 from the perspective of visual fidelity, imo.

Why do people do this to me, why?

No, at no point G9 wil looks better than 8.1, for the simple reason they share the exact same shader (PBRSkin).
PBRSkin is a light version of the very obese, not that awful, UberShader, but focused on skin (they removed half of the obsolete options that didn't belong on their skin business, excluded fully fledged bump map for their cheaper micro details).

The only difference you see is UV difference (outside people getting better at making Daz skin). Higher texture -> more pixel density -> less UV stretching (when you put that leg at 180°). And probably a sharper look due to resolution (color maps never mattered).

That's it. Thanks.

 

[idTerra]

There isn’t really a consensus, so here’s my two cents: I think G9 looks better in general, but I don’t see enough improvements to prefer it exclusively over G8/8.1. There are some really bad G9 assets, and there are well made and good looking G8.1 assets. It depends on the vendor.
Also, like you said, G9 doesnt have many available assets. They’re also more expensive. Converting older assets to G9 can be a hassle. I mostly stick to G8/8.1 due to hardware constraints.

 

[MissFortune]

No, at no point G9 wil looks better than 8.1, for the simple reason they share the exact same shader (PBRSkin).
PBRSkin is a light version of the very obese, not that awful, UberShader, but focused on skin (they removed half of the obsolete options that didn't belong on their skin business, excluded fully fledged bump map for their cheaper micro details).

It's not that serious, nor am I going to have a dick-measuring contest with you. I've used both extensively enough to say G9 just looks better in nearly all situations I've used them in. You can keep throwing shit at a wall, but it doesn't make it any less true.

Something like the Michael/Victoria series of genesis models make it obvious. All things being equal, G9 (specifically the Daz Originals) just objectively looks better to the naked eye.

 

[no_more_name]

It's not that serious, nor am I going to have a dick-measuring contest with you. I've used both extensively enough to say G9 just looks better in nearly all situations I've used them in. You can keep throwing shit at a wall, but it doesn't make it any less true.

Something like the Michael/Victoria series of genesis models make it obvious. All things being equal, G9 (specifically the Daz Originals) just objectively looks better to the naked eye.

Blablabla.
How about making some substance instead of magical thinking?

-UberShader nerver changed since it's creation (outside correcting few MDL bricks behavior).
-PBRSkin is a bastardized version of UberShader with a slight change for artists's workflow (bump maps->micro details, probably inspired from real time engine)

That's it. Absolutely nothing of importance changed in nearly 10 years. Making color maps twice the size is not progress and bring very diminish return because how translucency is used (blur details at the surface, also why jpeg is used over png/tiff). But it looks like Daz3D has a bridge to sell you.

G9 looks better because people are getting better at baking maps for a more than 10 years old shader. There is also way more accessible tools and ressources all over the web. You would have seen the same progress with or without G9. People will fall for marketing but it's none of my business.

The best advice you can give for new developer using Daz studio is not to buy the lastest Daz skin, but to be more familiar with how they are made and how the shader is used.

Just for shit and giggles, this is a Victoria4 skin from nearly 15 years ago, before UberShader was introduced:



G3/G8/G8.1/G9 doesn't matter outside those points:
-UV mapping
-Model rigging
-Asset compatibility

UberShader/PRBSkin doesn't matter outside those points:
-Micro details for PBRSkin (you still can use fully baked bump)
-More options for UberShader (transmission color mode, top coat layering, gloss, cutout/alpha, I may miss some)

End of story.

 

[coffeeaddicted]

Blablabla.
How about making some substance instead of magical thinking?

-UberShader nerver changed since it's creation (outside correcting few MDL bricks behavior).
-PBRSkin is a bastardized version of UberShader with a slight change for artists's workflow (bump maps->micro details, probably inspired from real time engine)

That's it. Absolutely nothing of importance changed in nearly 10 years. Making color maps twice the size is not progress and bring very diminish return because how translucency is used (blur details at the surface, also why jpeg is used over png/tiff). But it looks like Daz3D has a bridge to sell you.

G9 looks better because people are getting better at baking maps for a more than 10 years old shader. There is also way more accessible tools and ressources all over the web. You would have seen the same progress with or without G9. People will fall for marketing but it's none of my business.

The best advice you can give for new developer using Daz studio is not to buy the lastest Daz skin, but to be more familiar with how they are made and how the shader is used.

Just for shit and giggles, this is a Victoria4 skin from nearly 15 years ago, before UberShader was introduced:

View attachment 4000559

G3/G8/G8.1/G9 doesn't matter outside those points:
-UV mapping
-Model rigging
-Asset compatibility

UberShader/PRBSkin doesn't matter outside those points:
-Micro details for PBRSkin (you still can use fully baked bump)
-More options for UberShader (transmission color mode, top coat layering, gloss, cutout/alpha, I may miss some)

End of story.

looks lovely.
I like the details.

 

[no_more_name]

looks lovely.
I like the details.

Meh.

At that time facescan were plagued with hard-baked shadows/highlight, in that case even peach fuzz (never finished cleaning it, got bored). That being said, gonna demystifies that crappy shader, because most don't get it (it's infuriating).

 

[coffeeaddicted]

Meh.

At that time facescan were plagued with hard-baked shadows/highlight, in that case even peach fuzz (never finished cleaning it, got bored). That being said, gonna demystifies that crappy shader, because most don't get it (it's infuriating).

I think i don't have too high standards really. To me it looked great.

I have even less understanding.
Though i admire good images. It is only a hobby to me and i would never create a story or something. It is my playground where i can get wild.

But i got the point and this is probably true. I wish i had more knowledge in the graphics department.

 

[coffeeaddicted]

Oh, here is a portrait of mine. I like the character. Nothing that wows anyone.