It's okay to complain while not paying?

[Deleted member 79442]

I don't know if this thread will sound repetitive here, tell me if I need to post this in another place if I must so. Anyway, to the point:
Don't get me wrong, I was an anime reviewer and I don't pay for things like crunchyroll or apps like that, but I refer to the fact of using exclusively patreon release without supporting the developer(s) and then speak shit about it.
Do we have that right?

Imho, critisism and hate are two different things:
You can try something, like it or not, and then post your opinion about it without speaking shit of it, helping the developers to improve; maybe you aren't supporting them with money, but at least you are trying to gave them some ideas, how are they going to take it? It's up to them.
Other thing is trying something, don't like it (or not liking the devs... that shit happens sometimes) and then posting shit about it willy-nilly. Bro, if you aren't supporting, at least say something constructive.

It's just my opinion tho

 

[crotugar]

everyone has their own opinion if you support the game or not you should be able to say what you want about it. Critisism can be very helpfull but some people take it to far. eitherway its the developer that decides what he/she is going to do with the critisism.

I dont like it either when ppl are shittalking about the game sometimes even when they havent even played the game but ppl like that will always be around, just learn to ignore em.

 

[Ataios]

I think it's OK to critisize even without playing, as long as your critisism is relevant to those playing. To give an example from a mainstream game. Going to a FIFA forum and ranting that you don't like the game because you don't give a fuck about football, doesn't make much sense. Critisizing EA for exploiting players with their loot boxes makes sense though, even if you don't play the game you critisize.

Edit: OK, I misread that. Read "without playing" instead of "without paying". In that case: Of course, it's OK to complain, didn't think this would even be a question.

 

[Gomly1980]

This is a piracy forum. Games, comics and novels get posted here for people to download and play.

The people on here have a right to their opinion paying or not. Those that pay can voice their opinion on Patreon, those that don't post here.

Now, the big issue some people have is how that opinion is formed.

Constructive criticism is fantastic. If you don't like something, explain why and move on. Posting "this is shit" or "no incest, no game" just makes you look like a dick and it isn't worth posting.

I've made it more than obvious I hate NTR but I won't go into a games thread and say "it's got NTR, i'm out" because it's pointless. If I happen to be playing a game that doesn't have NTR tagged or the dev says it won't be added and then it's later added I will add my criticism then but if it's an NTR game from the start I just move along.

The main reason being nobody gives a shit. Who honestly gives a flying monkeys testicle if i'm going to play a certain game?

No fucker.

Just like no fucker cares if random forum dweller 2987 is going to play it.

Sure we can have a laugh and a bit of banter, it's a forum, but pure vitriol isn't needed. A dev doesn't need to know his game is shit, he needs to know why and what can be done to fix it.

Demanding changes to a game you aren't supporting is hilarious though. I've seen that which is where my "no incest no game" dig comes from. Somebody typed that expecting a dev to change his story to please this one person.

None of us are that important .... except maybe me.

 

[Ataios]

Even with paying you can't DEMAND a change. You can only suggest it as free player can, and developers will rather listen to paying customers of course, than to free players. Still there is no "right" to get a game changed, even if you pay for it.

 

[Ignatz]

Well, complaining is the path of easiest resistance. Solutions are a bit tougher.

And, generally, everything posted is through the lens of the individual. It's rare for the poster to consider the entire community that a developer must appeal to in order to be successful.

That said, as others have suggested, even the selfish poster may contain some valid points in their views. Keeping it constructive increases the chances those points of view will be given fair consideration.

As for tone, well, there has been a general increase of rudeness in societal communication since the relative anonymity of the internet exploded. Bad attitude with little consequence is a poor method for creating polite conversation. Plus, it's entirely possible some people simply talk brusquely and don't yet have the experience of how unproductive that is.

But, I think it's acceptable for anyone to give their feedback. Pearls from swine, and all.

 

[DarthSeduction]

I don't know if this thread will sound repetitive here, tell me if I need to post this in another place if I must so. Anyway, to the point:
Don't get me wrong, I was an anime reviewer and I don't pay for things like crunchyroll or apps like that, but I refer to the fact of using exclusively patreon release without supporting the developer(s) and then speak shit about it.
Do we have that right?

Imho, critisism and hate are two different things:
You can try something, like it or not, and then post your opinion about it without speaking shit of it, helping the developers to improve; maybe you aren't supporting them with money, but at least you are trying to gave them some ideas, how are they going to take it? It's up to them.
Other thing is trying something, don't like it (or not liking the devs... that shit happens sometimes) and then posting shit about it willy-nilly. Bro, if you aren't supporting, at least say something constructive.

It's just my opinion tho

To be completely honest, as a developer, this is a broken argument. If you don't like my game you're not going to support it. That's how it is. However, if you don't like the game, feel free to criticize it. I read the comments in my thread, and if they have merit I consider them. But, if your complaint is with what the content is, rather than how the content is executed, feel free to ignore my thread. If you don't, for instance, like Big Brother, that's fine, I don't either, but don't come into the Game Legends thread, where we are parodying it, to complain that I made a game parodying a game you don't like. I could care less if you like it. Similarly, if I had NTR content, there's nothing to be gained by you complaining in the thread about it. I'm not going to remove it, so you're adding nothing to the discussion.

 

[Lykanz]

You're on the internet... Complain your heart out.

Being a supporter or not, weights little on the matter. Any criticism, constructive or not (well, unless it's plain toxic), is still criticism and should be taken into consideration.

 

[Ataios]

How much a developer should or should not react to customer wishes is basically a balance between artistic freedom and economic necessity. If the developer doesn't depend on his supporters it's basically up to his good will, wether he listens to them or not.

 

[DarthSeduction]

How much a developer should or should not react to customer wishes is basically a balance between artistic freedom and economic necessity. If the developer doesn't depend on his supporters it's basically up to his good will, wether he listens to them or not.

That's a faulty argument that implies a developer who is reliant upon the income from his games should bow to pressure from the outside to change his content to their wishes and to be frank, no they shouldn't. The only time a developer should change their game is if something is broken. For instance, MotH should fix the fact that it has grind in place of narrative. It "fixed" this by implementing a cheat menu that disables the grind, giving you a game with at least some minimal narrative. Dark Silver's new game needs to focus more on its art, making multiple renders to show progression and tell his story visually. Based on how he handled BB, I don't think that will happen. But to give you context, there are over 50 renders to the first sex scene in a game I'm developing, 73 with the non sexual images that lead up to the sex. Comparatively there are about 10 - 15 renders in a given sex sequence in Big Brother including the setup.

These are things that can and should be changed for the sake of the game's overall quality. However, where a developer should not cave, falter, or otherwise give in to whims of commenters, is on the content itself. I don't care if I get 100 people in my thread complaining about incest, I'm not gonna remove it as a fetish from my title. I don't care if I get 100 people asking me to add a ton of lesbian sex, I'm not gonna add it if it doesn't fit the narrative. At no point should a developer compromise their vision for those who don't have the full picture. It is their game to design. If they build it and market it well it will do well, but if they cave to every demand thrown their way they'll only ruin their game.

 

[ＧＡＢ]

Gonna quote what a console said 5mins after reading the title.
"No. you shut your mouth"

 

[Ignatz]

Especially difficult with that member name!

 

[Zippity]

Opinions are opinions in the end... Any product offered up to the public, opens itself up to all the various forms of opinion, comments, criticism, review, praising, complaining, etc... That in no way shape or form means that either the developer/s or other players/readers need to take it as gospel... Everyone has different takes on any given experience... Every person is different in what they like/dislike, and everyone is different in what they are passionate/dispassionate about...

A majority of developers who are experienced with creating things the public has access to, fully realize that opinions, bad or good, are gonna happen in all their various forms... And it's the mature developers that just take in in stride, using what they want from an opinion, and dismissing anything they don't want from an opinion, and then keep on trucking along... Nothing anywhere sais that fans, paying or not, must dictate content that the developers must include... The best developers make their project how they want to make their project, and just use opinions to grow as a developer, giving them an over all sense of what folks like and don't like, without worrying about if it's good or bad... Because they are gonna get both types of opinions, regardless what they prefer or want... It's a part of the business of publically available products...

To echo Darth a little bit, letting fans, paying or not paying, take too much creative control over a project is 9 times out of 10 doomed... Because then it loses it's original focus based on the developers original plans, and shows a lack of creative skill on the part of the developer when they allow that to happen in most cases... You can tell a majority of the time when a project is mostly about the money, and not about the overall quality of the craftsmanship of a project... Because then too many compromises are taken for the sake of the almighty dollar, and it shows...

To sum it all up, yes, I believe opinions good or bad should be allowed by anyone, and not just those few fans donating some money to a project/artist/developer... And they should be encouraged to do so... The more the merrier... Because then you get a better scope of opinions...

Now, do I agree with just someone spouting off a few quips and vanishing into the ether? Depends on what they're saying and if it sounds like trolling or not...

And, if all people ever did was voiced their opinions when they liked something but never when they didn't like it, then nothing would ever get better...

 

[Skaldy]

well there are 2 types of critisism, here at this forums:
1. honest opinion from backer/non backer member with small discussion follow up on the matter
2. some member who just wants to poke and create arguments through any kind of critisism. Usually drags on about 3-5 pages untill some moderator waltz in.

Now to your question; this is what i do, if free demo or something similar is avaible for the game i wanna play, i try it.
If i like it i will measure some value(let's say i think if game gets completed it will worth 20 bucks per copy), then i back the game up to that value(i usually split it between months since breeding season incident).

if i dont like the game i move on, i dont play it or back it anymore. Now problem here is people are just complaining. If you dont like it dont play it hence dont back it up. Usually people like me voice their opinion and criticism at devs page/hateron.

TL;DR: it doesnt matter if you are paying for it or not just move on or dont play the game if you dont like it and wanna critisize huge portions of the game. Otherwise most of the critism are welcome since no one can really tell if you are a backer or not.

 

[sdfgjhdfszbg]

Its like complaining about a president being elected but you didn't vote for anyone. Its stupid but you can if your arguments are valid.

 

[wrarar]

catharsis is a hell of drug.

 

[wewlad]

Arguments are either valid or they aren't.

Simply being a someone who paid for a product does not make your arguments any more valid.

 

[gunderson]

Isn't this still the Internet? It's our porn-given right to be basement-dwelling assholes. If we don't like something, we complain. And since we're the fucking audience of these porn games to begin with, it's probably a good idea for the devs to listen to at least some of what we say. If they do a good job of addressing our more reasonable concerns, some of us may actually start paying for their game if we weren't already. It's a foolish dev who thinks that this site costs them more money than we could potentially bring in.

More generally, do I have a right to criticize a game even if I'm not paying for it? Fuck yes. Why wouldn't I? Why would I even post on a forum where I had to pay money for any game about which I wanted to say anything even remotely negative, especially when there are hundreds of terrible, barely begun, derivative clones? That would be insane.

 

[Ataios]

That's a faulty argument that implies a developer who is reliant upon the income from his games should bow to pressure from the outside to change his content to their wishes and to be frank, no they shouldn't. The only time a developer should change their game is if something is broken. For instance, MotH should fix the fact that it has grind in place of narrative. It "fixed" this by implementing a cheat menu that disables the grind, giving you a game with at least some minimal narrative. Dark Silver's new game needs to focus more on its art, making multiple renders to show progression and tell his story visually. Based on how he handled BB, I don't think that will happen. But to give you context, there are over 50 renders to the first sex scene in a game I'm developing, 73 with the non sexual images that lead up to the sex. Comparatively there are about 10 - 15 renders in a given sex sequence in Big Brother including the setup.

These are things that can and should be changed for the sake of the game's overall quality. However, where a developer should not cave, falter, or otherwise give in to whims of commenters, is on the content itself. I don't care if I get 100 people in my thread complaining about incest, I'm not gonna remove it as a fetish from my title. I don't care if I get 100 people asking me to add a ton of lesbian sex, I'm not gonna add it if it doesn't fit the narrative. At no point should a developer compromise their vision for those who don't have the full picture. It is their game to design. If they build it and market it well it will do well, but if they cave to every demand thrown their way they'll only ruin their game.

Sticking to a creative concept is the ideal, but not every developer/writer/movie maker can afford that. No developer/writer/movie maker can carter to every wish, but often he wont have the luxury of ignoring audience wishes alltogether. If you are lucky you may be successful with just the game/book/movie you had in mind, but you can't be 100% sure about that. If you already have a concept that is attractive to a broader audience, you may be able to ignore later customer wishes.

I think the less known you are as a developer/writer/movie maker, the more likely you need to "market" you work. Of course you can go a different way, dismiss advice, take the risk and hope to gain access to a completely new audience.

 

[89tasker]

"Free" speech implies that you don't have to pay.