VN Ren'Py Karlsson's Gambit [v0.8.2 Test] [Grym Gudinna Games]

[Stan5851]

I'll wait for the release version before discussiong things, soo, mid-january?

It's hard to say, but I hope so. I wouldn't want to wait another month. As for the discussion, I get your point, the only comment is that my spoiler is from the scene you may have seen before in the screenshots of Tess herself that Mav and Silver posted here. But anyway, that's your right and I respect it. We'll discuss everything when the final version comes out.

 

[PickerLewd]

First update without SanchoMod , diving directly into the pool with the sharks or witches in this case .

 

[Stan5851]

First update without SanchoMod , diving directly into the pool with the sharks or witches in this case .

URM is great at keeping track of flags and variables and what your decisions affect. Admittedly, it's unlikely to save you from witches, given that your Kane is K4.

 

[SlowGoesSlow]

Corrupted Claudia already being down to stomp out the poors with Evil Kane and Evil Dom is so fucking funny. She only needed like an hour max to stew on that pep talk from Kane and went full send.

 

[gregers]

You probably have a different Olivia than I do. My Olivia (of my Dom saves) doesn't lie to me, cares about her family and loves Kane...Yes, she may be hiding something, but there are reasons for that...But her intentions are not against KaneDom or Seth. I'm among those players who believe the “agent Olivia” theory is very real and valid, and our sweet little "sis" really does know a lot more than she's showing, which is confirmed in the game.But Olivia and her actions are a topic for a separate conversation, so I'll end it there for now.

Olivia has canonically been lying to Kane and Seth for a long time prior to the game events and continues to do so during it. What her ultimate intentions and motivations might be I've no idea and nor, I would posit, does anyone else except (hopefully) the dev.

Re-read my post you were responding to...that Kane is gone, he's changed dramatically for the better. (there's no reason for me to lie to you)

I didn't mean to imply that you were, and apologize if it came across that way. I was just stressing that I only spoke from what I'd seen of the game, which did not include this latest build.

This is the first time I've heard that Olivia's story is the reason the game exists. Tess has created a complex and multifaceted narrative where both Olivia and Kane have the freedom to choose who to be, yet Kane remains the main MC, and Olivia's role (if we're talking about the Dom route) is important but inferior to Kane's...

I can dig the comment out a little later,* but basically (and I'm speaking from memory here so forgive any imprecision), Tess said something a long time ago in response to comments about the multiple-protagonists thing to the effect that she wouldn't have created the game if it hadn't been for Olivia's path.

* Edit:

The female protagonist has the ability to be good/evil and that sort of thing, but also can go lesbian/bi/hetero. That will depend on choices. Her sexual orientation will absolutely impact her endings too, as certain characters are wired to be the "partners" of that path, etc. I do understand that multiple protagonists are not for everyone, but I honestly would not have made this game without Olivia's path as this is for me what I enjoy personally.

Also, I can't agree that Olivia is supposedly not controlled by the player at key moments. Just the opposite, all the key moments from the very first episode onwards are exactly where we have full control over Olivia and her decisions.

Just two off the top of my head: We don't get a choice in Olivia withholding information from Kane or handing Seth over to be abused by whatshername, Katsumi?

 

[Stan5851]

Olivia has canonically been lying to Kane and Seth for a long time prior to the game events and continues to do so during it.

There was no such thing in my walkthrough. I don't know where you came up with that at all (no offense).

Just two off the top of my head: We don't get a choice in Olivia withholding information from Kane or handing Seth over to be abused by whatshername, Katsumi?

Let's clarify some points..we're talking about the Dom route now because I have no idea (although I've seen a few sub scenes in Sancho Gallery) how Olivia behaves towards SubKane and SubSeth..So please tell me, what information (in the Dom route) did Olivia decide to withhold from KaneDom? Personally, I don't remember that.

Regarding Seth - in all likelihood, you might want to refresh your memory and replay the game. Olivia (and us as a players) has the opportunity to decide if she wants to give Seth to Katsumi or not.

 

[gregers]

There was no such thing in my walkthrough. I don't know where you came up with that at all (no offense).

Let's clarify some points..we're talking about the Dom route now because I have no idea (although I've seen a few sub scenes in Sancho Gallery) how Olivia behaves towards SubKane and SubSeth..So please tell me, what information on the Dom route did Olivia decide to withhold from KaneDom? Personally, I don't remember that.

No offense taken. See e.g. here, here, and here.

Regarding Seth - in all likelihood, you might want to refresh your memory and replay the game. Olivia (and us as a player) has the opportunity to decide if she wants to give Seth to Katsumi or not.
View attachment 4384971

I got the name wrong, sorry, meant handing him over to Kiyomi (and here), which happens regardless of the helpseth/fuckseth choice.

 

[Maviarab]

I'll wait for the release version before discussiong things, soo, mid-january?

At the very latest I would say. Tess usually pretty efficient.

First update without SanchoMod , diving directly into the pool with the sharks or witches in this case .

You'll be fiiiiiiiiiine

Just two off the top of my head: We don't get a choice in Olivia withholding information from Kane or handing Seth over to be abused by whatshername, Katsumi?

I got the name wrong, sorry, meant handing him over to Kiyomi, which happens regardless of the helpseth/fuckseth choice.

But you do get the choice of whether to help Seth or not which directly affects his scenes before he leaves for Island 4.

As for Olivia withholding information...I think you're msising the whole point of her storyline and how that fits into the gambit. I'll refrain from commenting further on your (usually coherant and literate) posts from now on in here as you obviously cherry-pick points to fit the agenda you have made up for yourself (which again, mostly does not exist).

 

[gregers]

But you do get the choice of whether to help Seth or not which directly affects his scenes before he leaves for Island 4.

As for Olivia withholding information...I think you're msising the whole point of her storyline and how that fits into the gambit. I'll refrain from commenting further on your (usually coherant and literate) posts from now on in here as you obviously cherry-pick points to fit the agenda you have made up for yourself (which again, mostly does not exist).

Agreeing to disagree is fine by me, I'm not spoiling for a row. I hold firm opinions on the strengths and weaknesses of this game, but have no particular axe to grind beyond that: Obviously you and Stan read the game differently than I do and that's cool, interpretation is free as long as we're all agreed on the actual words on the screen.

 

[motseer]

Agreeing to disagree is fine by me, I'm not spoiling for a row. I hold firm opinions on the strengths and weaknesses of this game, but have no particular axe to grind beyond that: Obviously you and Stan read the game differently than I do and that's cool, interpretation is free as long as we're all agreed on the actual words on the screen.

Actually, there is a fee for any interpretation that differs from mine. Please send your remittance to: JK@full_of_it.haha

 

[gregers]

Actually, there is a fee for any interpretation that differs from mine. Please send your remittance to: JK@full_of_it.haha

The cheque's in the post, honest!

Please don't take my kneecaps.

 

[Stan5851]

No offense taken. See e.g. here, here, and here.

Sorry, but none of your so called evidence proves in any way that Olivia is lying to Kane and Seth.

I got the name wrong, sorry, meant handing him over to Kiyomi (and here), which happens regardless of the helpseth/fuckseth choice.

Spoiler

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[MilesEdgeworth]

Because I am a lazyfucker im quoting this here so if someone needs help with the sancho stuff I can tell them to search lazyfucker and they won't know whether or not Im being a smart ass.

As an aside (and yes generally I despise double posting)...I would be more concerned with people who use Sancho's mod making sure they have his Save File Fixer downloaded (It needs placing in the game folder of the VN)

and

learning (if they don't already know) how to use both URM & possibly UCD (currently on hold regarding updates but works fine as is) as going forward it would seem very unlikely now that we will see Sancho again any time soon

 

[PickerLewd]

URM is great at keeping track of flags and variables and what your decisions affect. Admittedly, it's unlikely to save you from witches, given that your Kane is K4.

I always start with my save on K8, then try an intermediate one where I deliberately stay between K5 and K6, and end with Kane's Trials on K4 .

 

[motseer]

Because I am a lazyfucker im quoting this here so if someone needs help with the sancho stuff I can tell them to search lazyfucker and they won't know whether or not Im being a smart ass.

If I was doing that I would choose "BigPrick". That way I could get your "smart ass effect" with a double entendre bonus... Jus' Sayin'

 

[Maviarab]

Sorry, but none of your so called evidence proves in any way that Olivia is lying to Kane and Seth.

That is actually one thing Gregors does have correct, or, if we are playing the semantics game...maybe not so much direct lying (you cannot lie if not asked a direct question) but there is certainly a rather large slice of being very conservative with the truth (examples being she knows Kane is not her brother, she knows Callista is alive (proved in this update) etc etc.

However, what Gregors fails to relise is (and you do understand) is that despite Tess saying she would not have made the VN without Olivia (as a playable character, and it would be interesting to know how that worked in her original story), ultimately Olivia really doesn't matter all that much (currently at least), she is a peripheral character at best that we can make some choices for...

Alexander has 6 daughter's...anyone one of them can get pregnant by Kane....the only character that actually matters. The fact that 90% of choices and decisions are Kanes, the fact that there are 197 flags relating to Kane (Dom and Sub combined) and only 39 for Olivia is also very telling. It's a very similar disparity with regards to Relationship points also.

So sure, Tess may have wanted Olivia in the story and to make it a multi-protag VN for her own reasons but there can be no denying, Kane is the main character, always has been, always will be. Without him, there isn't even a gambit to begin with is there and any number of women can fulfill the gambit with him.

Where she becomes more important is in her feeling Kane out for own desires and ambition. She is always testing him, always seeing if he can be the man she needs and wants...and as the other (main) sisters understand, Olivia has a massive head start over them...hence them being far more willing to 'have sex' than Olivia is. Right now, Kane being being on her side/same page is far more important (proven again in game) than any actual romantic relationship. She doesn't need to...and anyone who thinks 8 days is a long time and doesn't see that Olivia is picky (we know of at least 2 confirmed men she has turned down) is a deluded idiot.

it's also entirely possible that Olvia knows full well that Callista wants her to be with her son. If make the right choices, you can even gain a 'WorthySon' point with Elena, getting her to also believe in this specific union. But ultimately, there are still 5 other daughters of Alexander around who can all fulfill their fathers wishes.

Olivia, just isn't as important as some want to make her out to be (story/plot wise) in the grand scheme of Alexander's desires (until we get more info regarding exactly what she knows).

 

[jadepaladin]

I always start with my save on K8, then try an intermediate one where I deliberately stay between K5 and K6, and end with Kane's Trials on K4 .

I've yet to do a run where I start K4 and then make it into K5. I assumed it would just be a weird dom route with extra steps. I tend to either go K4 and stay that way, go for broke and oppose Olivia so I end up in lower Ks, or end up K9 aiming for the top.

 

[Maviarab]

I've yet to do a run where I start K4 and then make it into K5. I assumed it would just be a weird dom route with extra steps. I tend to either go K4 and stay that way, go for broke and oppose Olivia so I end up in lower Ks, or end up K9 aiming for the top.

All that happens is you are forced onto the Alessa SecretSub route. Everything is the same as being on the Alessa SS route from the massage scene at Olivia's on the balcony.

I'm not entirely sure this is intentional and I have questioned this with Tess and didn't really receive any kind of meaningful response. There are not even any real dialogues to highlight the switch from Sub path to Dom path...that you 'rose up against the odds' etc...it's a bit of a weird path. I always thought it should have been more and..not forced you onto the SS path.

To me, it would be far more logical to have an opportunity to hit K5 after the K4 'incentive' scene with Delilah/Raven and Mia...but there is no evaluation after this scene....so whether that scene exists purely as a huge evil piss take to Kane, who knows lol.

 

[PickerLewd]

The fact that 90% of choices and decisions are Kanes, the fact that there are 197 flags relating to Kane (Dom and Sub combined) and only 39 for Olivia is also very telling. It's a very similar disparity with regards to Relationship points also.

I hope Tess doesn't troll us, and to balance that, from episode 9 onwards, more than 90% of the decisions and flags will go to Olivia .

 

[jadepaladin]

All that happens is you are forced onto the Alessa SecretSub route. Everything is the same as being on the Alessa SS route from the massage scene at Olivia's on the balcony.

I'm not entirely sure this is intentional and I have questioned this with Tess and didn't really receive any kind of meaningful response. There are not even any real dialogues to highlight the switch from Sub path to Dom path...that you 'rose up against the odds' etc...it's a bit of a weird path. I always thought it should have been more and..not forced you onto the SS path.

To me, it would be far more logical to have an opportunity to hit K5 after the K4 'incentive' scene with Delilah/Raven and Mia...but there is no evaluation after this scene....so whether that scene exists purely as a huge evil piss take to Kane, who knows lol.

Thanks, that makes sense. I normally jump on Alessa's SS route just doing normal dom route stuff, makes sense that she might try to grab Kane a different way.

I too wanted an opportunity to promote after the K5 incentive scene, as a way to roleplay Kane getting his shit together.