Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.53.0] [Selebus]

[fdsasdf_p]

Something I’ve been wondering about

Pregnancy was thought to be the one true prerequisite for joining the apocalypse club for quite a while with good reasons.
Then it moves on to the perception of the world/time for it seems to be more universally applicable to Ayane, Maya, and Sensei (whether Maya could’ve been pregnant or not in the infinite past is beyond me, but at least Sensei wasn’t and ain’t gonna get pregnant anytime soon); plus, you would automatically be qualified for the next reset because perception persists IF you survive.

So assuming you only need to meet the requirement once and you’re forever “marked” by the world (big assumption without solid support of course), what if every person prerequisite for surviving a reset is different?

Ayane’s being pregnancy because of how she values bearing children from Sensei and motherhood.
Sensei’s being his relationship with Maya? How did any Sensei manage to get through their first resets without knowing anything anyway?
Maya’s being……idk, defiling gods/falling in love???

Anyway just some random thoughts as attempts of figuring this game’s any technicality aspect out are likely to end up being incorrect.

 

[k1n5l4y3r]

Makoto is stuck somewere on her oedipus phase (since vehemental brough up psychoanalysis) she is stuck in a weird place between the "I want daddy to fuck me" and the "I want to be free" phase where she puts a mature facade because she thinks that is what Sensei (daddy) wants, but is not really mature because she doesn't see the consequences to her actions (bluejay, halloween day after). She is just an impulsive teen trying to find happiness in a world where her happiness was taken away (her dad).

 

[Deleted member 2223621]

In her first lewd scene, she initially reacts and tells him to get out, but that's just because he walked in on her masturbating. After the kind of embarrassment anyone would feel in that scenario fades, she then says her mom would kill her if she found out. That's the extent of her resistance. She then gets into it so much she thought they were going to have sex.

The next lewd event starts a little darker, she thinks he's blackmailing her into "doing something weird" to delete the photo of her with the dildo in her mouth, but then is surprised and immediately gets into it when it turns out that all he wants is a BJ. She then tells him she would have gone all the way if he had asked nicely. This is the most resistance I found, and it could easily be interpreted as playful banter.

3rd lewd event, she says the following:



But then she drops this bomb and proceeds to get fingered:



While getting fingered she complains about his unwillingness to fuck her and asks if she's done something wrong.

4th lewd event, last one before Halloween scene:



Frustration at not getting laid:



This is the most resistance she puts up:



There are some hints that not everything is as it seems on the surface, like her denying her nymphomania and playfully talking about being manipulated, but at no point does she say anything like "this is a bad idea" or give any more than a token amount of resistance that can't easily be interpreted as playful banter. Maybe she did feel like shit afterwards, but that quote I posted previously about being happy she went through with losing her virginity seems to belie that point.

In all four events I referenced above, she mentions a willingness to have sex with him.



The more we establish that Bluejay was premeditated whether he was going to have sex with her or not, the more it becomes that Sensei did her a favor of sorts by submitting to her desires after turning her down at least 4 times. She had to do just about every single thing in her power to get him to finally have sex with her. Who wants to die a virgin?

I get that his actions somehow brought forth the current state of her nymphomania, which she blames him for, but contextually I don't think we can characterize what he did as intentional just to get into her pants given his continued unwillingness to. It sounds like he was fine with just messing around until she figured out what she wanted, but what she wanted was sex - now.

You can make your own judgment here, but I just can't see Makoto as the victim in this scenario given how pushy she was compared to every other character. And then once he finally acceded to her repeated demands, she repaid him by forcing him to be there when she Bluejayed herself. Very nice.



IDK, I mean it is an undeniably significant feature of the game and her nymphomania came out of nowhere at the start of the game.



Yes... good... good...



I was most definitely talking to myself. Sorry for the confusion. My post was like 10 times longer than yours and I tend not to know when to stop when I go off on tangents

I mean every example you gave pretty much supported my interpretation of her going "no, I don't want this, but, oh it feels so good, why does it feel so good, I hate myself because of how good it is, FUCK ME LIKE AN ANIMAL"
rather than Makoto being the victim I see it more as the society she was raised in would tell her she is the victim and she would internalize that. she spent so much time trying to not be her mom, trying to be this idolized version of a prim and proper lady only for the image to be destroyed time and time again and she is unable to live up to these standards... and everytime she fails who is there with her...sensei

Something I’ve been wondering about

Pregnancy was thought to be the one true prerequisite for joining the apocalypse club for quite a while with good reasons.
Then it moves on to the perception of the world/time for it seems to be more universally applicable to Ayane, Maya, and Sensei (whether Maya could’ve been pregnant or not in the infinite past is beyond me, but at least Sensei wasn’t and ain’t gonna get pregnant anytime soon); plus, you would automatically be qualified for the next reset because perception persists IF you survive.

So assuming you only need to meet the requirement once and you’re forever “marked” by the world (big assumption without solid support of course), what if every person prerequisite for surviving a reset is different?

Ayane’s being pregnancy because of how she values bearing children from Sensei and motherhood.
Sensei’s being his relationship with Maya? How did any Sensei manage to get through their first resets without knowing anything anyway?
Maya’s being……idk, defiling gods/falling in love???

Anyway just some random thoughts as attempts of figuring this game’s any technicality aspect out are likely to end up being incorrect.

we have no confirmation on pregnancy being the factor?
I personally think and hope it is a red herring
I came up with an alternative reason to join the roof top crew: only when Ami kills you do you get up there in the world resets.
I believe the girls were having a sleep over the night of that reset... ayane looked like she wanted to tell Ami something too... like she is pregnant with her uncles child. dont believe we see ayane again till the rooftop. might be recalling that wrong but i hope I'm not... this game needs more yandere
for this theory
maya was killed by Ami already a long time ago
sensei was killed and altered repetitively by ami till he eventually bangs her
I believe our first real game over will be 'the good uncle route' when we finally hit the dark part of the game

 

[barglenarglezous]

Psychoanalysis of Makoto from someone who's taken exactly one psychology course in college:

Makoto is insecure because of who her mother is, and her parent's relationship being open (and the fact that she only really saw Maki taking advantage of that fact) led Makoto to feel that the life she and her father provided for her mother wasn't good enough. This prompts a lot of maternal resentment, which dovetailed into daddy issues, though not what we normally think of when we talk about daddy issues. In this case, she wants to become someone who can make her father proud because she feels her mother does the opposite (even though we're given no indication that her father ever said anything like this to her).

This has driven her to constantly push herself, which leads to her becoming The Gifted Burnout. She hasn't burned out yet, not fully, The Gifted Burnout usually doesn't truly burn out until late in college, but the cracks are starting to show. And like most Gifted Burnouts, when the cracks start to show, thoughts of self-harm follow.

Prior to Bluejay, this is played off as nihilistic humor, we don't see until Bluejay that those intrusive thoughts were very real. In Bluejay, her flame flickers. Just for a moment. Not a true burn out, but for just the briefest of moments, the darkness fills her, and succumbs to that intrusive thought that had been simmering below the surface for so long.

The irony is that unlike most Gifted Burnouts, the pressure she faces is not external. It's not her mother pressuring her to get those grades, and the way she talks it's safe to assume her father would have been proud of her no matter what grades she brought home. Her pressure is entirely self-inflicted, born by her desperation to not become her mother.

Enter Sensei, who does what he does best -- wave his cock around and complicate the fuck out of things.

Where Sensei normally takes his time with the girls, with Makoto he puts his hands on her day one. The very first time they're in a room alone, he's encouraging her to take off her clothes. Every time she attempts to establish a boundary, he tramples on it.

This triggers a conflict in Makoto, because so much of her personality at the start of the game is a rejection of her mother, and her mother is absurdly horny, so Makoto is trying SO HARD to NOT be horny. But she's a teenager. She's horny! She's denying it out of spite for her mother, but it's there. And Sensei's aggressive approach towards her causes all of that to crash headfirst into all that pressure she's placed on herself. She invested so much energy on trying to NOT be someone, she never really figures out who she actually is -- and once Sensei shows up, he's making that decision for her.

Sensei is horrible to Makoto. He adds more pressure, putting her in a position where she has to teach the class if there's going to be any learning done. She's already cracking, and he's doubled her emotional workload. He doesn't truly begin respecting or appreciating her until late in Chapter 2. For most of Chapter 1, he's intent on being exactly opposite of what she needs. When she needs a teacher, he's a predator, when she needs someone to fuck her, he refuses. He waits until she's drunk at a party to take her virginity -- a fact that triggers all that contempt she has for her mother and makes her feel like she is her mother's child after all -- the very thing she did not want to be.

She recognizes this. Bluejay is the moment all this cicks in her brain. It's this epiphany that causes her light to flicker for that brief moment, that turns dark humor into dark fact. And she knows that if she hesitates, she'll chicken out. So she tells him to close his eyes so she can act while the conviction is still there.....

.....and the world itself conspires to ensure her failure.

Chapter 2 adds even more pressure in the form of Nodoka. Nodoka is who Makoto could easily have been if she'd accepted her mother. She's academically gifted and a massive pervert -- and when they compete, Nodoka absolutely obliterates her.

Makoto has yet to come to terms with the fact that the woman she is becoming and the woman she wants to be do not align. Maybe, in the long term, her father's death might help her, by removing the motivation to become the person she was never actually going to be. Maybe it'll make her push that rock uphill with twice the ferocity and four times the futility.

 

[Deleted member 2223621]

Psychoanalysis of Makoto from someone who's taken exactly one psychology course in college:

Makoto is insecure because of who her mother is, and her parent's relationship being open (and the fact that she only really saw Maki taking advantage of that fact) led Makoto to feel that the life she and her father provided for her mother wasn't good enough. This prompts a lot of maternal resentment, which dovetailed into daddy issues, though not what we normally think of when we talk about daddy issues. In this case, she wants to become someone who can make her father proud because she feels her mother does the opposite (even though we're given no indication that her father ever said anything like this to her).

This has driven her to constantly push herself, which leads to her becoming The Gifted Burnout. She hasn't burned out yet, not fully, The Gifted Burnout usually doesn't truly burn out until late in college, but the cracks are starting to show. And like most Gifted Burnouts, when the cracks start to show, thoughts of self-harm follow.

Prior to Bluejay, this is played off as nihilistic humor, we don't see until Bluejay that those intrusive thoughts were very real. In Bluejay, her flame flickers. Just for a moment. Not a true burn out, but for just the briefest of moments, the darkness fills her, and succumbs to that intrusive thought that had been simmering below the surface for so long.

The irony is that unlike most Gifted Burnouts, the pressure she faces is not external. It's not her mother pressuring her to get those grades, and the way she talks it's safe to assume her father would have been proud of her no matter what grades she brought home. Her pressure is entirely self-inflicted, born by her desperation to not become her mother.

Enter Sensei, who does what he does best -- wave his cock around and complicate the fuck out of things.

Where Sensei normally takes his time with the girls, with Makoto he puts his hands on her day one. The very first time they're in a room alone, he's encouraging her to take off her clothes. Every time she attempts to establish a boundary, he tramples on it.

This triggers a conflict in Makoto, because so much of her personality at the start of the game is a rejection of her mother, and her mother is absurdly horny, so Makoto is trying SO HARD to NOT be horny. But she's a teenager. She's horny! She's denying it out of spite for her mother, but it's there. And Sensei's aggressive approach towards her causes all of that to crash headfirst into all that pressure she's placed on herself. She invested so much energy on trying to NOT be someone, she never really figures out who she actually is -- and once Sensei shows up, he's making that decision for her.

Sensei is horrible to Makoto. He adds more pressure, putting her in a position where she has to teach the class if there's going to be any learning done. She's already cracking, and he's doubled her emotional workload. He doesn't truly begin respecting or appreciating her until late in Chapter 2. For most of Chapter 1, he's intent on being exactly opposite of what she needs. When she needs a teacher, he's a predator, when she needs someone to fuck her, he refuses. He waits until she's drunk at a party to take her virginity -- a fact that triggers all that contempt she has for her mother and makes her feel like she is her mother's child after all -- the very thing she did not want to be.

She recognizes this. Bluejay is the moment all this cicks in her brain. It's this epiphany that causes her light to flicker for that brief moment, that turns dark humor into dark fact. And she knows that if she hesitates, she'll chicken out. So she tells him to close his eyes so she can act while the conviction is still there.....

.....and the world itself conspires to ensure her failure.

Chapter 2 adds even more pressure in the form of Nodoka. Nodoka is who Makoto could easily have been if she'd accepted her mother. She's academically gifted and a massive pervert -- and when they compete, Nodoka absolutely obliterates her.

Makoto has yet to come to terms with the fact that the woman she is becoming and the woman she wants to be do not align. Maybe, in the long term, her father's death might help her, by removing the motivation to become the person she was never actually going to be. Maybe it'll make her push that rock uphill with twice the ferocity and four times the futility.

wow, everything I was basically saying but much longer and thorough, good job!

 

[ElukiaTV]

Psychoanalysis of Makoto from someone who's taken exactly one psychology course in college:


Makoto has yet to come to terms with the fact that the woman she is becoming and the woman she wants to be do not align. Maybe, in the long term, her father's death might help her, by removing the motivation to become the person she was never actually going to be. Maybe it'll make her push that rock uphill with twice the ferocity and four times the futility.

Wow.. this was too much of a good read that i have to ask you to do more of the LiL Characters!

 

[barglenarglezous]

Wow.. this was too much of a good read that i have to ask you to do more of the LiL Characters!

Sadly, most of the girls don't really have enough in game yet to scratch the surface. Makoto has arguably been one of the centerpiece characters up to this point, so there's a wealth of content, and the fact that Maki was introduced as early as she was makes it a lot easier -- especially since they talk about each other in a way Sara and Sana really don't.

I could probably do Yumi in this depth at this point, since she's also been a centerpiece for a large chunk of the game, and she's also a very complex character. The other characters we know well just don't seem that complex.

Chika's a product of her circumstances, and for all she's been through seems remarkably well-adjusted. I'm sure she isn't, but the actual damage hasn't appeared to manifest beyond more than becoming codependent upon Sensei waaaaay too quickly.

Ayane wears her heart on her sleeve and is keenly aware of why she's turning out the way she is, and hasn't hesitated to discuss it, so I don't think there's a real need for an analysis.

Rin's issues are (mostly) biochemical, and we've only just met her mother (well, one of them), so we haven't had time to see what kind of parental damage Rika's done.

Futaba up to this point has felt like an accessory to Yumi's arc, and hasn't really been a narrative focus on her own yet.

Maya's an intentional mystery for meta-narrative reasons
Ami has a lingering mystery regarding how much of her is real and how much of it is just manipulation, and until that's answered it's hard to pin her down.

Miku has too many unanswered questions, and hopefully we see some insight soon.

As for Sana, I want to wait until we learn more about her father -- or at least what Sana knows/thinks of him -- before doing something like this because that seems SUPER important to who she is as a character.

All the floor 2 girls and side girls have the same issue in that they're really underdeveloped relative to floor 1. Kirin probably has the most material to work with, but her damage also seems pretty obvious. And I know people complain about the lack of Karin content, a lot of that's because Karin exists as an accessory to Kirin's arc more than she exists as her own character.

 

[k1n5l4y3r]

I just hope there is a chance of Rin stoping someone from cockblocking Sensei and Haruka, and Rin says "Let her cuck".

 

[Deleted member 2223621]

Sadly, most of the girls don't really have enough in game yet to scratch the surface. Makoto has arguably been one of the centerpiece characters up to this point, so there's a wealth of content, and the fact that Maki was introduced as early as she was makes it a lot easier -- especially since they talk about each other in a way Sara and Sana really don't.

I could probably do Yumi in this depth at this point, since she's also been a centerpiece for a large chunk of the game, and she's also a very complex character. The other characters we know well just don't seem that complex.

Chika's a product of her circumstances, and for all she's been through seems remarkably well-adjusted. I'm sure she isn't, but the actual damage hasn't appeared to manifest beyond more than becoming codependent upon Sensei waaaaay too quickly.

Ayane wears her heart on her sleeve and is keenly aware of why she's turning out the way she is, and hasn't hesitated to discuss it, so I don't think there's a real need for an analysis.

Rin's issues are (mostly) biochemical, and we've only just met her mother (well, one of them), so we haven't had time to see what kind of parental damage Rika's done.

Futaba up to this point has felt like an accessory to Yumi's arc, and hasn't really been a narrative focus on her own yet.

Maya's an intentional mystery for meta-narrative reasons
Ami has a lingering mystery regarding how much of her is real and how much of it is just manipulation, and until that's answered it's hard to pin her down.

Miku has too many unanswered questions, and hopefully we see some insight soon.

As for Sana, I want to wait until we learn more about her father -- or at least what Sana knows/thinks of him -- before doing something like this because that seems SUPER important to who she is as a character.

All the floor 2 girls and side girls have the same issue in that they're really underdeveloped relative to floor 1. Kirin probably has the most material to work with, but her damage also seems pretty obvious. And I know people complain about the lack of Karin content, a lot of that's because Karin exists as an accessory to Kirin's arc more than she exists as her own character.

Uta arguably has more than kirin going on for her in terms of story you could probably get a nice beginning sum up of her and Io's issues going.
Really hope I'm right in regards to the type of message board they met on cause that would explain so damn much.

Ah found my old post in regards to io
QUOTE="KnowNoHope, post: 9780806, member: 2223621"]
yeah, she more than likely got touched in the wrong way and didn't like it, lives with an aunt, so most likely an immediate family member, reaction towards women strongly implies it was a female touch that did it to her. This could also explain Io's natural tendancy towards more 'masculine' dominated hobbies and work, more to limit herself from female contact while working or learning her craft. It appears Uta and Io met while children on what probably was an online support group chat. Wouldn't be surprised if she hates Ami the most out of any other girl because of her predilections, if the family abuse is true; or even Rin in the future, her finding out Rins mother is sleeping with Rin in the dorms and both are Yuri or Yuri adjacent might cause a mental break if previous thoughts are true.
Edit: Io also finding Sana going at it probably was the worse outcome too for her mental health at the time, if above is true, because it helps reinforce women and her classmates as 'sexual' and sex (in regard to the same gender) is already associated with pain/trauma for her. wouldn't be surprised by a potential passive aggressive bullying attempt by Io on Sana in the future to try and regain control/assert her status as a non-victim. probably without her even realizing why she is doing it. Io forming a 'friendship' with miku is an attempt at obtaining validation from sensei rather than what appears to be a desire to move on, its an intentional pick of the girl with the most tomboyish tendancies that does not openly vocalize female attraction (yet). it is also a relationship fully with Io in control as miku's 'drug dealer' making any interactions heavily dependent on what Io wants

the other option (which it isn't because selebus very clearly slapped that down before the event even started) with the extremely vague ass wording she used to describe her hang ups regarding her genitals could have implied transgender instead, but Uta's joke before that scene making fun of the very idea of boy-Io and 'imagining' Io with a small baby penis seemed to be a very calculated joke placement by selebus so no one could jump to that conclusion
[/QUOTE]

 

[barglenarglezous]

Uta arguably has more than kirin going on for her in terms of story you could probably get a nice beginning sum up of her and Io's issues going.
Really hope I'm right in regards to the type of message board they met on cause that would explain so damn much.

Yeah, I'm %100 they met on a sexual abuse survivor's forum or group therapy chat room.

 

[Deleted member 2223621]

Yeah, I'm %100 they met on a sexual abuse survivor's forum or group therapy chat room.

Doubt it was anything official like a therapy chat since they faked identify. Io probably went with a boy at a young age so other girls would be less likely to talk to her and try to relate to her and Uta said she was male to make it harder to track down her photos or identify her when she talks about it in the forum. Wonder how much of her fixation with roller coasters is linked to her trauma. A promise by an abuser that was never met? The place she went to escape?

 

[k1n5l4y3r]

Doubt it was anything official like a therapy chat since they faked identify. Io probably went with a boy at a young age so other girls would be less likely to talk to her and try to relate to her and Uta said she was male to make it harder to track down her photos or identify her when she talks about it in the forum. Wonder how much of her fixation with roller coasters is linked to her trauma. A promise by an abuser that was never met? The place she went to escape?

I think the amusement park was something like a school trip, and not only it was fun, it was also far away from the abuser.

The forum they are talking, one of them says it was a safe place, that means it's probably some specialized space, they may verify identity, but allow them to identify as they want, like cam sites where you need to verify you're old enough and your banking identity, but you can identify as you wish there even as a vtuber like ProjektMelody.

I think the abuse came from both genres, but with the female forcing. More a feeling than something hinted at so take with a truck of salt.

 

[barglenarglezous]

Doubt it was anything official like a therapy chat since they faked identify. Io probably went with a boy at a young age so other girls would be less likely to talk to her and try to relate to her and Uta said she was male to make it harder to track down her photos or identify her when she talks about it in the forum. Wonder how much of her fixation with roller coasters is linked to her trauma. A promise by an abuser that was never met? The place she went to escape?

The way she acted about that video game tells me that it's the game she's so fixated on, not the actual amusement park itself.

Wherever she played the game might have been her only safe space, and by association, the park itself became a safe space in her mind, and she may have never actually BEEN to one.

Because amusement parks are full of people, and that's a situation she's usually trying to escape from when she asks Sensei to take her to one.

 

[Deleted member 2223621]

I think the amusement park was something like a school trip, and not only it was fun, it was also far away from the abuser.

The forum they are talking, one of them says it was a safe place, that means it's probably some specialized space, they may verify identity, but allow them to identify as they want, like cam sites where you need to verify you're old enough and your banking identity, but you can identify as you wish there even as a vtuber like ProjektMelody.

I think the abuse came from both genres, but with the female forcing. More a feeling than something hinted at so take with a truck of salt.

Nice. Good thoughts.

The way she acted about that video game tells me that it's the game she's so fixated on, not the actual amusement park itself.

Wherever she played the game might have been her only safe space, and by association, the park itself became a safe space in her mind, and she may have never actually BEEN to one.

Because amusement parks are full of people, and that's a situation she's usually trying to escape from when she asks Sensei to take her to one.

Also true.
But I was thinking in terms of hyperfixation. Some individuals that get traumatized are often rewarded for silence or compliance with something they want and it becomes the life goal to get it as much as possible much like an addiction. That fixation doesn't disappear even if the abuse does. Not saying it is what's happening but it would be a neat little tie in to the story if so.

 

[derekthered56]

Touka sexiest girl. need sex with her.

Don't take shelter from your feelings in her.

 

[crustlord12]

The usual club is having a fantastic conversation, great read the last few pages.

Who's got the best tits in the game though? Discuss.

 

[Bingoogus]

Who's got the best tits in the game though? Discuss.

It's gotta be Touka vs Yumi when unbound.

 

[vehemental]

The usual club is having a fantastic conversation, great read the last few pages.

Who's got the best tits in the game though? Discuss.

 

[barglenarglezous]

It's gotta be Touka vs Yumi when unbound.

Touka wins based on size

Yumi wins based on size+shape

Yumi also wins overall, but I'm biased because the exact physical type I fawned over in high school.

 

[k1n5l4y3r]

Who's got the best tits in the game though? Discuss.

Flat is justice, Amy.