Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.53.0] [Selebus]

[SlidingSubject]

Spoiler: Niki

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You reminded me that both his blessing and his bff warned him.

Spoiler

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[Moonflare]

One day I'm going to be able to post "I told you so" about Ami and I'm warning you now, I'm going to be absolutely insufferable about it.

Ami is obviously redeemable, otherwise she wouldn't still be the most underdeveloped character according to Selebus. So I think this is a very safe bet.

Spoiler: thoughts

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Being totally honest right now, even if Akira was a lot more put together, that was an impossible situation to begin with. Let's set aside the supernatural stuff for a second and just consider the implications of having to take care of the child of your two abusers, when you yourself have no concept of either love or family, nor had a childhood to begin with. Controversial take or not, I see a very strong argument here for Ami to be adopted - Akira was just not capable of caring for a child.

But then we'd have no story, I guess.

 

[Bingoogus]

Bingoogus' split personality Sugoognib is that you???! Have you finally became the dominant personality and are finally sharing the analysis and theories, Bingoogus fought so hard to contain?

Lol, i might be a complete moron but i can still notice things, i have a thought about once every 3 or 4 days... and today's was 'Ami isn't really 15 though if she's retaining her memories between resets is she?'. Lmao at Sugoognib.

 

[TheGoodPastor]

I don't understand how so many people can come away from this update thinking "Yes, clearly the one in the wrong is the girl who:"

• Was abandoned when she was 15 by the dad who failed at raising her, leaving her completely on her own with no other family.
• Was also abandoned by her only close friend (assuming Maya doesn't exist here), who ran away to have a baby with her dad.
• Isn't even allowed to address the man who raised her as "Dad".
• Despite all of the above, managed to be a good "aunt" to the daughter of the people who abandoned her, such that her "niece" doesn't have a single negative memory of her.

Here's a take that really shouldn't be at all controversial: you don't get to decide to leave a toxic relationship for the sake of your own mental health when that relationship is with your own 15-year-old daughter. Especially when it's mostly your fault that she's broken in the first place!

I'm seriously considering making this my signature at this point:

I'll preface this by saying that I love Ami and don't find her irredeemable at all - I fully expect that she will have a redemption arc and that it will be the best thing in the game (until Yuki gets a purity route and Akira becomes Yumi's dad). I do think in the long run the general impermanence of events will palliate the sting of most of her actions, too.

Spoiler: Having said that

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I don't think Hima not having any negative memories of her really means much either, considering how manipulative we know Ami to be and their seemingly limited contact - not to mention Hima is a blood relative so Ami's probably in love with her lol

But yeah, definitely not irredeemable. It's a story about the reformation of a heinous sexual predator, writing Ami off knowing the end-goal for Akira doesn't really make sense to me.

 

[harrytrumankr]

To add onto this:
It actually proves she is completely unsaveable.
Look at what she says closely during the himawari event chain, barring even her venomous insults towards Ayane, insinuating that shes keeping akira from her, and has effectively kidnapped him.
At first she tries gentle manipulation, "oh i just happen to be in your town we should see eachother" as if shes not done it on purpose. She employs a huge array of manipulation strategies, she blames ayane, she tries to guilt trip akira, she tries to downplay the significance of what shes doing, she makes several backhanded insuniations. Its bad.

But man, if you ignore the things shes saying and just LOOK at what she is doing it is WAY more on the nose.

First thing first, she is wearing Sekai's dress, having not moved on from her past at all.
Secondly she is on the phone while driving, having not learned from her past either.
Thirdly she is attempting to use himawari to get back to her dad, more manipulation. The very thing that led to this outcome to begin with and cementing ayanes stance on no contact.

The fact she was able to let go in the Pocket Dimension shows that it’s possible for her to get better, let go of Akira and become a family member liked by Himawari should be proving that it should be our goal to get there, just like how we are striving for the happy family ending as shown in other parts of this update

So uhhhhh, still not part of the Ami club, but I have hope for her now

 

[Bingoogus]

definitely not irredeemable

Spoiler

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[aramaug]

The only nitpick/counter argument i would make to all of that is we don't actually know how old Ami is... see, her body might be 15, but she could be hundreds of years old mentally... soooooo that kinda changes equation a bit in terms of the shittiness of abandoning her. Reminds me of a few vampire stories i've read over the years about sires abandoning their childe. Sometimes the 800 year old needs to give the boot to their 200 year old 'son'/'daughter' cause, yeah, they might look 18, but they ain't...

Sure, but I don't think that applies to the Ami in Himawari's dream world. Resets don't happen there in the same way, and Himawari (both of them) act like she's completely normal there.

There are definitely interesting philosophical questions about whether the Ami in Sensei's world (or Maya Prime) is really a teenager or not, but I give some benefit of the doubt given her brain isn't able to develop physically and her mind and memories are constantly being messed with by "supernatural" forces (including the custodians).

Ami is obviously redeemable, otherwise she wouldn't still be the most underdeveloped character according to Selebus. So I think this is a very safe bet.

Spoiler: thoughts

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Being totally honest right now, even if Akira was a lot more put together, that was an impossible situation to begin with. Let's set aside the supernatural stuff for a second and just consider the implications of having to take care of the child of your two abusers, when you yourself have no concept of either love or family, nor had a childhood to begin with. Controversial take or not, I see a very strong argument here for Ami to be adopted - Akira was just not capable of caring for a child.

But then we'd have no story, I guess.

To be clear, I wasn't trying to say the Ami in Himawari's dream world is a perfect angel or anything, and I'm sure Akira and Ayane think they have a justified reason to keep her away from Himawari. But all of that happened after they abandoned her, and even the dimension-hopping Himawari doesn't think Ami did anything really bad there. I would imagine she knows the reason for the falling out.

The part that really gets me is that Ami isn't even allowed to call Akira "Dad". No matter what she did, that just feels vindictive.

As for the Ami in Sensei's world: nope, sorry, still not buying that it's that simple. The Ami in Chapter 3 wasn't a cold-blooded killer and I will die on this hill.

 

[Moonflare]

nope, sorry, still not buying that it's that simple. The Ami in Chapter 3 wasn't a cold-blooded killer and I will die on this hill.

Spoiler: aramaug aka indy

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[Vega Cifer]

Bro okay, Ami may not be "irredeemable" but I don't think this really gets rid of the fact she is consciously killing people. Like didn't she just kill nodoka in that other world? Which by the way, the heck was that world? That must have been Ami's wish right? Since it was about a family with her, but I can't help but wonder why Nodoka was there to solve stuff. Obviously she's got some connection to these shenanigans. Anyway! Yeah the main point is she is still consciously a murderer lol. Unless it's some god messing with her like they do Akiras blackouts, because that STILL wasn't really explained this update...so I guess we just assume it's gods not just "watching" but messing with that world? I was very curious on paraedola and HOPE at least but can't get to everything I guess

I'm sure Selebus with the right scenes and soundtrack and give her a redemption arc or something, but this game really is starting to get bloody, and it started with her first murder we saw ngl

 

[shmurfer]

It's quite simple really, she needs to stop being a cunt.

I can't wait for the days I can cheer for Ami again, the problem is right now I'm praying for the downfall of this Ami and every time she doesn't get what she wants it makes me happy. I had it for a moment in 0.50 before he folded immediately.

 

[Budoop]

I don't understand how so many people can come away from this update thinking "Yes, clearly the one in the wrong is the girl who:"

• Was abandoned when she was 15 by the dad who failed at raising her, leaving her completely on her own with no other family.
• Was also abandoned by her only close friend (assuming Maya doesn't exist here), who ran away to have a baby with her dad.
• Isn't even allowed to address the man who raised her as "Dad".
• Despite all of the above, managed to be a good "aunt" to the daughter of the people who abandoned her, such that her "niece" doesn't have a single negative memory of her.

Here's a take that really shouldn't be at all controversial: you don't get to decide to leave a toxic relationship for the sake of your own mental health when that relationship is with your own 15-year-old daughter. Especially when it's mostly your fault that she's broken in the first place!

I'm seriously considering making this my signature at this point:

I didnt say any of this.
Im not saying shes at fault for being broken, im saying she cant be fixed (with what we know at the moment).
In ALL potential futures we have seen she has failed to be present or change, in the world in which sekai lives, she murders nodoka for touching akira, did she go through trauma there too, in a perfect world where her perfect mother never died? Yeah i dont fucking think so.

She has persisted for thousands upon thousands of years (if maya prime is anything to go off) and has ALWAYS been psychopathic.

"Shes nice to himawari"
Yeah, of course she is. Thats what manipulators do, this is so on brand im not even sure where to start on explaining it, in the same conversation where himawari says ami is always nice, ami is literally shit talking HER MOTHER.
She NEEDS to treat himawari well cause its a gateway to getting back to akira and thats exactly what we are seeing. Ami doesnt LIKE himawari, ami is using her as a tool. She has gone from raping maya to being nice to her in the span of mere sentences. I forget the name of this abuse cycle but its very well documented in relationships. You hurt your partner then proceed to lovebomb them and it absolutely ruins peoples psyche. Its a well documented manipulation tactic by psychos and can lead to stockholme syndrome and severe dependency issues.

Ami fucking sucks, could she have a redemption arc? Maybe. Do i think its going to happen with what we know currently? No. But we are only halfway through the game so who knows, personally its looking like the only option is a self sacrifice so far. Would explain the angel ami fairly well in the happy event.

For the record, id like to point out that i said ami having a go at akira after the niki noriko incident was a w for her. She has been canning up her problems for the sake of a man who doesnt deserve it, its good that she could finally have a moment to reflect on how horrible he is, and how horrible she has been for once instead of bending over backwards for him.
But we need to see more of that reflection before anything changes.

Irregardless of her development. She cannot have akira in the end.
And currently, thats ground for murdering him.

Additionally, there will never be a way to slice akira leaving ami as anything but shitty. But lets be real, ami doesnt need akira, she needs centuries of therapy.

 

[derekthered56]

I'll say the controversal thing: a parent's duty to their child is great but not unlimited. A parent shouldn't have to stick around a child that legitimately threatens to murder them.
We don't know exactly why Ayane and Akira left in that alt reality but the our Ami is more than awful enough to justify that decision, 15 years old or not.