VN Let’s talk Patreon Subscriptions

[Deleted member 3736421]

Hey, F95 community!



I wanted to reach out with a few questions. I hope you’ll indulge me with some thoughtful responses.



When it comes to Patreon, at what point do you feel it’s worth it to become a basic subscriber and supporter of a developer? Like, what factors make you say, “I want to support this project because I believe in it” ?



Furthermore, at what point do you find yourself being an avid supporter who donates over $15 a month? What extra perks make that sort of investment worth it?



I remember discovering the work put out by NLT. I was blown away at the attention to detail and the level of consistency. I jumped right in at the grandmaster level giving $23 a month.



However, I’ve also seen people continue to support developers that don’t put a damn thing out and basically milk a hopeful core audience (I won’t name names, but I’m sure a few come to mind).



Anyways, thanks in advance for chatting with me!

 

[Lerd0]

When it comes to Patreon, at what point do you feel it’s worth it to become a basic subscriber and supporter of a developer?

 

[m00nsh1ne]

If I play a game and am happy with the quality and the entertainment provided then I consider pledging. I'm more inclined to pledge if I see that the dev really needs it. Like I love DrPinkCake but he doesn't need my 5 a month lol. The majority of my pledges are all to devs who make less than 2000 a month. I feel like once they reach that level If I find someone that deserves my money more than I drop them and start helping others. The only excpetion to this rule are the few games that take forever to get uploaded to this site when an official release is made but that's rare.

 

[Pretentious Goblin]

- Communicative dev
- Consistent update schedule (monthly/weekly)
- The themes/game concepts are niche and no one else is doing anything like them that I know of

I don't have a lot of money to throw around, so I support devs that are making something special, and I have confidence that they can see it through.

 

[Diconica]

When it comes to Patreon, at what point do you feel it’s worth it to become a basic subscriber and supporter of a developer? Like, what factors make you say, “I want to support this project because I believe in it” ?

Sorry, I've been bitten to many times by the lying ass sack of crap developers who decided to go a different direction to many times. As someone else said, "NEVER".
I'll wait till it gets completed and published on steam.

Maybe, if patreon introduced a rule forcing people to deliver what they promised and kicked those that didn't then maybe.
The chances of that happening is about as good as NEVER.

 

[ManhunterAlpaca]

I think regular communication is key. It doesn't even have to be updates, but posts talking about the development process and the progress made. I've definitely unsubbed from some content creators don't even bother to make one post a month!

 

[Staimh]

I have bought 100s of games (mostly non-porn but a lot of porn as well)
But every one I have bought was completed
I will continue to so so as long as they are available
I don't buy any games that require online registration

There is a game thread on this site where the developer posed a similar question
I gave the same answer
Less than a month later the developer announced he was abandoning that game because he had decided to start a different project - which he was also hoping to get subscribers for

Look ay the number of On Hold and Abandoned projects here

So the short answer - I would never be a subscriber

 

[Diconica]

I think regular communication is key. It doesn't even have to be updates, but posts talking about the development process and the progress made. I've definitely unsubbed from some content creators don't even bother to make one post a month!

All the talk in the world doesn't fix anything when the developer takes something in a direction they didn't express at the outset.
Refunding people's money might be a good start.

There letters between famous artist and patrons even court rulings showing patrons have always had a lot more say in artists work.
This crap patreon claims that artists used to be able to do what they wanted and just collect money is utter horse shit for the greater part. Rarely was that the case.
Artist in the past got sued, kicked out had their possession seized and more for failing to produce what was expressed and expected. The very least here they should be forced to return the money or as in some court cases produce the product that was originally described in an allotted time frame.

 

[Asia Argento]

Be Runey. Be based. Get my money. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

 

[Zeph3r]

Originally I would just support those creators that were creating content I liked or were extremely niche. Now though I typically choose creators that are consistent and produce top quality content. I believe almost everyone here can agree wait times between updates are the worst and that some developers can slack when they start receiving 10k+ a month, releasing a poor amount of content after half a year. So for me, if they're making a decently sized and good quality update every 1-2 months, I can at least be assured that the money I spent was well worth it cause it's going to someone who's still passionate about their project.

 

[Asia Argento]

Originally I would just support those creators that were creating content I liked or were extremely niche. Now though I typically choose creators that are consistent and produce top quality content. I believe almost everyone here can agree wait times between updates are the worst and that some developers can slack when they start receiving 10k+ a month, releasing a poor amount of content after half a year. So for me, if they're making a decently sized and good quality update every 1-2 months, I can at least be assured that the money I spent was well worth it cause it's going to someone who's still passionate about their project.

Same. Thankfully Runey and ollane are cool people.

 

[Deleted member 3736421]

Sorry, I've been bitten to many times by the lying ass sack of crap developers who decided to go a different direction to many times. As someone else said, "NEVER".
I'll wait till it gets completed and published on steam.

Maybe, if patreon introduced a rule forcing people to deliver what they promised and kicked those that didn't then maybe.
The chances of that happening is about as good as NEVER.

They actually do have a rule in place that if you do not provide a product to your donors you can be fined. There are a few cases of this. I believe there is one developer in particular that is experiencing this.

I agree with you. Some of these DEV's are taking advantage of people who work hard for their money and donate in the hope of HELPING create something special. Only to get fucked over. I despise that shit to my core. It's why I mentioned NLT and how consistent they have been with quality releases and sticking to their word.

As a developer, I vow NEVER to fucking do that kind of shady shit. It's cancer in this wonderful community.

 

[Deleted member 3736421]

I appreciate all of your responses.

Right now, I am months deep into development for my first title and am adamant that I won't put out a shit demo. I just simply will not do it. I believe people's time and energy are extremely valuable. Therefore, it is only fair I present something addiquate in return. Once the demo is public, I want to ensure that people know I am serious and value their experience above all else. I fucking hate devs that are essentially parasites. You will never see that from EMRG Games. You can screenshot this.

One common thread I have seen is communication or lack thereof. I am all about this, and I agree with all of you that it is vital, but as some have pointed out, talk is fucking cheap. People need to see results. I come from another industry and have been quite successful in that world. I know that being diligent and dedicated even when it's not fun is how you build something worth a damn. I created a team of two coders, one writer/editor, and myself, who has a degree in digital marketing, graphic design, and audio engineering. I invested over 4k of my own money to build a PC to develop this game. I have a 3090 and 3060 for rendering. I'd love to have 4 3090's to do a million animations for you all, and maybe one day I can. For now, I will do whatever it takes to deliver a high-quality experience with what I have. All I do is render every single day. I will not stop.

EMRG games is starting from humble but confident roots. I believe in kindness and fairness, but above all, honesty. I hope to build trust with this community because I believe in it.

Again, thank you for sharing your thoughts with me.

Warmest,

EMRG

 

[Diconica]

They actually do have a rule in place that if you do not provide a product to your donors you can be fined. There are a few cases of this. I believe there is one developer in particular that is experiencing this.

I agree with you. Some of these DEV's are taking advantage of people who work hard for their money and donate in the hope of HELPING create something special. Only to get fucked over. I despise that shit to my core. It's why I mentioned NLT and how consistent they have been with quality releases and sticking to their word.

As a developer, I vow NEVER to fucking do that kind of shady shit. It's cancer in this wonderful community.

A product and the same product as originally proposed that got you to patron are two different things. That's like I sell you a Ferrari instead I give you a fiat.

Frankly, I thought about turning the shit into the Texas attorney generals office as fraud and they go after them.
Honestly, Patreon needs to change. They need to set up a system were developers decide on a base level of a product what will and will not be included and the story line before hand. Then lock the developer into that. If they break from it in any manor unhappy patrons get a refund of everything they put into it. Only that is going to stop these types of developers. When they wake up in the morning and their bank account reads negative several thousand dollars. That or they will abide by what they say and not loose out.

 

[おい！]

When it comes to Patreon, at what point do you feel it’s worth it to become a basic subscriber and supporter of a developer?

Like, what factors make you say, “I want to support this project because I believe in it” ?

I remember discovering the work put out by NLT. I was blown away at the attention to detail and the level of consistency. I jumped right in at the grandmaster level giving $23 a month.

However, I’ve also seen people continue to support developers that don’t put a damn thing out and basically milk a hopeful core audience (I won’t name names, but I’m sure a few come to mind).

Anyways, thanks in advance for chatting with me!

 

[realakali]

Never have and never will pay for games through patreon.

I am more than happy to support a good game by paying amount X once, also known as buying the product.

But paying a monthly fee to maybe get a small update once a month, probably not seeing the final product until years later or even seeing the project getting abandoned, is just not my thing. It is beyond me how so many 'developers' can get away with this kind of scam anyway. Sure, there are exceptions to this. But even if I trusted a dev enough in advance, I would probably only support through kickstarter or something similar.

 

[Joshua Tree]

I can tip a creator I think does a good job and make a game I like for a few months. But I'm not going to feed them for the duration of the development time until the game is completed. Also with a growing trend of seeing a lot of these games end up on Steam, I think creators should hand out steamkeys to people that supported them equal to what the game end up sell for on steam.

 

[Ayymao]

If I had more disposable income, I'd support a couple of games that already have plenty of content and shows that the developer has a vision of their game. And if it does look like it will get finished in the near future (I'm looking at you, Fenoxo)

As it is, I rather buy a finished product.

 

[Fitzgerald]

I have seven Patron subscriptions, and was literally the first one to sub to Breeding Farm, so I think I'm a good example of the type who offers low-level support of a lot of games.

The common factors:

1) Either regular updates (detailed progress reports count) and decent gameplay size per month, OR per-update billing and decent gameplay size per update. Weekly small updates like Corrupt Kingdoms, decent size monthly ones, or beefy every-few-months are all fine as long as the dev is communicating frequently. Per-update billing can go dark as long as the updates are reasonably sized, but for monthly billing this rule is absolute.

2a) It has to be especially appealing. I enjoy games like Mythic Manor and Harem Hotel, but they're not special for me; meanwhile, simulation games like Breeding Farm or story-heavy like House in the Rift are dear to my heart and get my cash.

2b) Alternately, it can be highly niche with little support, plus be something I like. In this case, I support the dev to show that yes, people enjoy their work. Right now Vile's Aftermath (which hasn't dropped an update since May, but bills per-update) is the only one that qualifies.

3) As the above suggests, the less support a game has, the more likely I am to drop my money into it. Somebody making $10k a month isn't going to notice an extra dollar or two, while a game at $500 a month will. Right now the highest creator I'm supporting is Sierra Lee, who is around $5k.

 

[Kraz4life]

I've supported a few games on Patreon but I usually go month to month with my subscriptions based around communicative the designers are/how my personal finances are doing each month as there are other hobbies and bills that require my attention as I don't have enough disposable cash on hand to freely toss a fee to every game I like and want to support each month. That said the games that attract my eye are ones for patronage are the ones that, as others have mentioned, don't already have massive amounts of money rolling in and that also specifically demonstrate growth and progress. I love Seeds of Chaos and Sex Valley and have supported both in the past as I appreciate the games' quality and the communication from the devs. The downside is seeing games that I love and want to support slow down communication and/or fail to provide substantial updates. I don't need numerous releases per year that barely introduce anything meaningful into the game (honestly replaying a game only to see maybe one or two need scenes is not worth it), but as long as a steady pattern of growth is seen I consider giving when I can to support the devs as long as something worthwhile is being built. Kaliyo has been a tough one for me, personally, as I adore Roundscape Adroveia and am hopeful that Arenus will be a solid release but the "final" update of Roundscape was teased almost a year ago already in December 2021 without a final release as of yet and Arenus is a whole can of worms with the release date coming and going for that game multiple times over to the point that it is now in "abandoned" status here on F95zone (though the devs did release another "it's almost ready" type update in September of this year). The LOK Rebirth team is another one I have supported in the past but can't any more due to the slow, drip feed nature of past releases and the recent decision to completely toss out all of their progress in favor of starting over from scratch with a new version of the game. Panthea Leave2gether may be one of my all-time favorite games as I watched the original build of that thing grow into the final product of "chapter one" (a version overall woefully unplayable now due to the issues with Adobe abandoning flash) and I have supported their efforts with "chapter two" on the Unity engine, but again the incredible slowdown of progress and updates at times has caused me to pull my support.

TLDR going to month to month on Patreon for devs who have strong communication even if they don't have the most frequent content updates is key for me as it allows me to offer some financial support to the devs I appreciate, while moving away from devs who seem to be dragging their feet