VN Ren'Py Love & Jealousy [Act 2] [Professor Amethyst Games]

[Chaoticjustice]

Exactly this. She also states she would not like it either but would still do it if he told her to.

Basically, she'd kill Mia if the MC gave her an ultimatum...she'll literally do anything he asks of her.

Well maybe anything after the Damian incident

 

[Diosvincenccio]

she'll literally do anything he asks of her.

Im sure she belives that, and she would do it as long as it goes along her desires or at least it dosent goes againt what she wants. But when put to the test her desires/ambitions/needs take priority. Im expressing it in an exagerated way but you know...

Im gonna play a little with a famous saying. She wants and has black coffee. You can have any kind of coffe you want "as long its black"

 

[rhune]

Exactly this. She also states she would not like it either but would still do it if he told her to.

Basically, she'd kill Mia if the MC gave her an ultimatum...she'll literally do anything he asks of her.

I appreciate your review and the understanding of the characters, the part that I am missing is the wife sharing, care to elaborate on that?
Because I cannot find anything indicating that Lacey will be the instigator (quite the opposite), while there are several hints that MC could be.

So I want to understand if you have seen something behind the veil.

hmm Damian?

 

[DeviantFun]

This was just a prediction of the future, otherwise it's not in the current content, as you said

For various reasons, I suspect Lucy might eventually make such a proposal to MC, although I believe her motives would be selfless. However, making predictions about this game is exceptionally difficult, as it consistently subverts expectations and avoids common clichés.

On a different note, does anyone know when the next update is expected? This game has a way of becoming quite addictive, perhaps due to its significant emotional weight

Ok first of all I love your signature.

Now, for the topic, Lacey would never propose anything of sorts unless MC does it first, this is repeated so much in the game that I get annoyed when people say otherwise due to hate for Lacey, by missing information or not understanding the context.

Sure, we have the "other side" discussion open, but I would be severely disappointed in the story if that would be the case.
I am not a fan of the "subvert the expectations" for the sake of it a la Ryan Johnson, it becomes tiring and pulls away from the story themes.
Look at Act 1, the constant battering ram of shock value content is actually detrimental at some point, it desensitize you from the emotions to the point where some readers where just on the ride to see what crazy shit Lacey would be doing next instead of the actual story.

I am glad this has been turned a bit down for act 2, even if there was a rather flat attempt with the dildo scene.
I am not a great fan of the "evil from outside" angle, but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt, maybe it will turn great.

I hope that I am not misunderstood, I love L&J but that doesn't stop me from also seeing its flaws.

hmm Damian?

And here is an example of someone not understanding the context!

 

[AL.d]

hmm Damian?

And all the lying in act 1. Multiple instances of MC asking for information she wasn't willing to provide no matter what. So the "she will do anything he asks for" has been proven false quite a lot. A more accurate description is that she will do anything he asks, as long as it doesn't threaten him staying with her.

This was just a prediction of the future, otherwise it's not in the current content, as you said

For various reasons, I suspect Lucy might eventually make such a proposal to MC, although I believe her motives would be selfless. However, making predictions about this game is exceptionally difficult, as it consistently subverts expectations and avoids common clichés.

On a different note, does anyone know when the next update is expected? This game has a way of becoming quite addictive, perhaps due to its significant emotional weight

I think the only safe assumption is that it won't be having any more forced ntr like act1. Because it's mentioned in dev notes, everything after act 1 is choice-based (so probably nts). Of course that completely invalidates the current villains threatening with ntr so no clue why is that even a plot now.

Unless dev is a bit of troll and shows flashbacks from act1 with off screen shit we haven't seen. Because act1 has lots of holes.

 

[Maviarab]

I pay very close attention

You spelt two of the girls names wrong....

 

[redoubt27]

In the end I would like to see Lacey's fantasy, but 3 weeks means going back into addiction 100%.

This is certainly a "dark fantasy" option. As much as I kinda want to see it, I don't want to see it at all...

I understand those are DARK fantasies, yet you forget they reenacted one of the darkest fantasies already, the other one about being choked, obviously not in full since she is still alive.

No, didn't forget.
Lacey even hints at something during that first 'choking' scene in ACT 1, and there's a call back to it during the 2 truths/lie game (at least I think it's the game, could have been a convo, but I do recall Lacey specifically saying if she could choose how to die, it'd be the MC choking her out while having sex.) Talk about dark...
She wanted to bring it up the first time, but held back...
And the MC spontaneously did it the first time, I don't recall it being requested or asked for.

 

[Darth Sidious]

Man I sometimes wish we can respond to reviews.

A person said this, 'The game has a top rating so far - so why do i rate it only 1 star?
Pretty simple - it's basically "just" a book - not a game - at least it feels like that.'

Perhaps they aren't aware what the N in VN stands for lmao.

Well, it's not a Kinetic Novel neither. Being a Visual Novel implies there are choices. And there ARE choices, just very very few.

 

[DeviantFun]

To clarify, English is not my first language. I compose my responses in my native language and then use a translation tool to convert them to English

That's an excellent and challenging question. Let me break down my answer into a few parts

First, consider the nature of the game itself. How many times has it surprised us? How often have we judged a character or an event, only to realize later that we were mistaken? The story is defined by its plot twists and its avoidance of predictable outcomes.

One too many, to the point where it has become predictable or, that you don't really invest into understanding because stuff will be put upside down anyway.
I do it because I have a perfectionism problem and I need to know the things I like to an unhealthy extent, but I can see how it could just be tiring for the audience at large.

Plus, the main points are related to inconsitencies and lies, not really around expectations of what would happen.

With that in mind, let's examine the evidence we have
Has MC ever definitively decided to leave Lucy and communicated that to her? No. The one time he came close, during the deepfake event, he quickly reversed his decision and apologized profusely.
Conversely, have we ever heard Lucy state directly that she would not allow him to leave if he made that choice? Again, no. All we have is her emotional declaration that she couldn't live without him and would die.

That is called emotional blackmail, Lacey tells MC that leaving her is "not fair" (cit.) because she would kill herself, she knows MC very well and knows this is a surefire way to keep him around.
We can say that Lacey manipulates him unwillingly, unaware of her narcissitic tendency, the result is the same.
Also, MC never decided to leave because he has been pulled back by a lot of people, he was close to leave or divorce her 3 times at least in act 1.
People interjected, especially Mia and pulled him back.

This brings me to the core of my argument, which focuses on what we don't know. What if the roles were reversed? If Lucy decided to leave and MC did not agree, how would he react? We don't know for sure. However, we can make a prediction based on the evidence available.

My interpretation, based on my experience with the story, is that MC would not let her go, and Lucy is already aware of this. While neither of us can know the definitive answer, this prediction is supported by evidence such as MC's nightmare—in which he was certain Lucy was leaving but refused to let her—and other similar clues.
It has been proven many times that we don't have all the puzzle pieces, and the next puzzle is that Lucy knows MC can't live without her, we don't know this but we've seen the evidence.

If we go by evidence, MC already let her go once, for a full four year rollercoaster.
Not wanting her to go and not letting her go are two VERY different concepts.

On the fact that Lacey now understands the damage she did to MC by using him during his childhood and then leaving him, I agree, she now knows how much he would suffer, she also knows that he would be better off without her, there are direct statements.

From another perspective:
One might perceive Lucy as selfish, but not when it comes to MC. It has been proven that she loves him more than herself.
Initially, she married MC believing her past would remain secret. When it was exposed, her attempts to justify herself were driven less by self-preservation and more by a deep desire to heal his broken heart and soul. She is still committed to helping him recover. Consider all her actions: the various "husband sharing" arrangements, the week-long trip, the event at the bar—every step she takes, every single moment, is focused exclusively on MC's healing.

If she were selfish when it comes to MC, she wouldn't be sharing him with other women; that is the opposite of a selfish act.
You, like me, are probably male and view the game primarily from MC's perspective. However, if you consider Lucy's point of view and put yourself in her position, you can understand how incredibly difficult this "husband sharing" ordeal must be for her.

You misunderstand Lacey completely here.
Lacey IS selfish, she is selfish to the bone, she tries not to be but she is extremely self centered.
This cannot be missed in the story, it is the pivotal point of it all, the selfishness born from the abuse she was exposed to.
The results of her selfishness made MC get literal PTSD.

This doesn't mean she wouldn't do something for someone else, it means that she will decide what this someone needs and then do it, regardless of the true needs of the person because the only perspective that counts is hers and helping makes her self worth rise.
Ironically, it is what she was subjected to by Mia.

Sorry but the "female" point of view is completely out of scope and you are missing a very big point about Lacey.
The separation between sex and love for her is absolute, the husband sharing is only hard for her because she fears that MC (which has a very different love language) will get emotionally attached with someone else and not keep her at the center of his world anymore.

MC could burn through a sorority (cit.) and she wouldn't give a fuck as long as she was 10000% sure he would not get emotionally attached to anyone.
So she manipulates and controls everything going around MC and keeps the situation safe for herself.
Understandable in my book.

Mind you, she is making the effort to give him back something, to pay back all the years lost waiting or caring for her.

 

[Diosvincenccio]

One might perceive Lucy as selfish, but not when it comes to MC. It has been proven that she loves him more than herself.
Initially, she married MC believing her past would remain secret. When it was exposed, her attempts to justify herself were driven less by self-preservation and more by a deep desire to heal his broken heart and soul. She is still committed to helping him recover. Consider all her actions: the various "husband sharing" arrangements, the week-long trip, the event at the bar—every step she takes, every single moment, is focused exclusively on MC's healing.

If she were selfish when it comes to MC, she wouldn't be sharing him with other women; that is the opposite of a selfish act.
You, like me, are probably male and view the game primarily from MC's perspective. However, if you consider Lucy's point of view and put yourself in her position, you can understand how incredibly difficult this "husband sharing" ordeal must be for her.

Ok, i agree with some of this, but she is selfish, and extremelly so on the MC. She is abusive, maybe not willingly but she is hurting him, she even express herself that he is in an toxic relationship. In the Stockhokm Syndrome that was mentioned before, she is the kidnapper.

She needs the staying with the MC more than she values his mental health. She treatens suicide to close options of him leaving her. She manipulates him into duing what she believes is right overuling his thoughs on the matter.

She may care a lot for him now, but her selfishness is what hurt him in the first place. Even the healing comes with a little of selfishness on her intent and manipulation against him. By sharing him she is somewhat making the first sacrifice she made in the entire relationship. The first mostly selfless act, but still comes with a side intent.

And yes she lied to him a lot mostly with the intent to protect him against his own damaging thoughts and feelings, but also out of selfishness, to protect her own image/reputation/face, deflect blame and responsability, and avoid the possibility of him leaving her. If not, the moment something bad about her was discovered she would have come clean.

 

[Enlight432]

You spelt two of the girls names wrong....

I have to go fix them one by one
As I wrote here, I use a translator, and it writes the names incorrectly

 

[DeviantFun]

Unless dev is a bit of troll and shows flashbacks from act1 with off screen shit we haven't seen. Because act1 has lots of holes.

I wouldn't mind that, some stuff biting back.
I even wouldn't mind some more college stuff biting back, there is a LOT of unexplored shit there that is hinted during the party games.

I see both option as better than the spy games we have.

This is certainly a "dark fantasy" option. As much as I kinda want to see it, I don't want to see it at all...

No, didn't forget.
Lacey even hints at something during that first 'choking' scene in ACT 1, and there's a call back to it during the 2 truths/lie game (at least I think it's the game, could have been a convo, but I do recall Lacey specifically saying if she could choose how to die, it'd be the MC choking her out while having sex.) Talk about dark...
She wanted to bring it up the first time, but held back...
And the MC spontaneously did it the first time, I don't recall it being requested or asked for.

I do wanna see it! but yeah if it happens it is not gonna end well, so I guess it is off the table.
Maybe the other side is her on a lot of drugs?

Yeah you are right, MC does it by himself and she stops before admitting the fantasy (it was very clear tho, great hint to win the party game).

Btw I am developing an idea that the other side is super suicidal Lacey, how do you see it?

 

[MeltingTeapot]

One too many, to the point where it has become predictable or, that you don't really invest into understanding because stuff will be put upside down anyway.
I do it because I have a perfectionism problem and I need to know the things I like to an unhealthy extent, but I can see how it could just be tiring for the audience at large.

Plus, the main points are related to inconsitencies and lies, not really around expectations of what would happen.



That is called emotional blackmail, Lacey tells MC that leaving her is "not fair" (cit.) because she would kill herself, she knows MC very well and knows this is a surefire way to keep him around.
We can say that Lacey manipulates him unwillingly, unaware of her narcissitic tendency, the result is the same.
Also, MC never decided to leave because he has been pulled back by a lot of people, he was close to leave or divorce her 3 times at least in act 1.
People interjected, especially Mia and pulled him back.




If we go by evidence, MC already let her go once, for a full four year rollercoaster.
Not wanting her to go and not letting her go are two VERY different concepts.

On the fact that Lacey now understands the damage she did to MC by using him during his childhood and then leaving him, I agree, she now knows how much he would suffer, she also knows that he would be better off without her, there are direct statements.



You misunderstand Lacey completely here.
Lacey IS selfish, she is selfish to the bone, she tries not to be but she is extremely self centered.
This cannot be missed in the story, it is the pivotal point of it all, the selfishness born from the abuse she was exposed to.
The results of her selfishness made MC get literal PTSD.

This doesn't mean she wouldn't do something for someone else, it means that she will decide what this someone needs and then do it, regardless of the true needs of the person because the only perspective that counts is hers and helping makes her self worth rise.
Ironically, it is what she was subjected to by Mia.

Sorry but the "female" point of view is completely out of scope and you are missing a very big point about Lacey.
The separation between sex and love for her is absolute, the husband sharing is only hard for her because she fears that MC (which has a very different love language) will get emotionally attached with someone else and not keep her at the center of his world anymore.

MC could burn through a sorority (cit.) and she wouldn't give a fuck as long as she was 10000% sure he would not get emotionally attached to anyone.
So she manipulates and controls everything going around MC and keeps the situation safe for herself.
Understandable in my book.

Mind you, she is making the effort to give him back something, to pay back all the years lost waiting or caring for her.

Dude, cut Lacey some slack. She deserves some love

 

[Diosvincenccio]

Btw I am developing an idea that the other side is

Maybe, with the grimm comments that she made in the king games is a possibility, but clashes with her super need of being with the MC. It would be her leaving own her own, fits with the hes not ready, but then that other part should never materialize or the games ends.

Still like my theory more. It would be delightfull to see and would kick the Mc when hes down. Like the simpsons meme "stop stop hes already dead (inside)"

By the way at this point our opinions are almost identical, come brother, join the hive mind. Chanting One of Us, One of Us.

 

[PonderingPotatoPal]

Ok, i agree with some of this, but she is selfish, and extremelly so on the MC. She is abusive, maybe not willingly but she is hurting him, she even express herself that he is in an toxic relationship. In the Stockhokm Syndrome that was mentioned before, she is the kidnapper.

She needs the staying with the MC more than she values his mental health. She treatens suicide to close options of him leaving her. She manipulates him into duing what she believes is right overuling his thoughs on the matter.

She may care a lot for him now, but her selfishness is what hurt him in the first place. Even the healing comes with a little of selfishness on her intent and manipulation against him. By sharing him she is somewhat making the first sacrifice she made in the entire relationship. The first mostly selfless act, but still comes with a side intent.

And yes she lied to him a lot mostly with the intent to protect him against his own damaging thoughts and feelings, but also out of selfishness, to protect her own image/reputation/face, deflect blame and responsability, and avoid the possibility of him leaving her. If not, the moment something bad about her was discovered she would have come clean.

Huh, well, that's something, Sounds like you and i played completely different games. the Prof needs to step in LOL

 

[DeviantFun]

Dude, cut Lacey some slack. She deserves some love

You don't understand how much I love Lacey.
But I keep the people I love accountable.

Except from maybe a couple of posts at the beginning when I was still going through the story I never once called Lacey evil.
Can we consider evil someone that is selfish due to survival and abuse?

She had a way out and fucked up, literally because "she wanted to", she fucked up a man that loved her unconditionally, again because "she wanted to".
When your actions are damaging to others, no matter the intentions, you need to face reality and keep yourself accountable.

This is why Lacey 2 is good, she is starting to be accountable and unless the author devolve her for drama points, she is on the right path to heal.
Does this mean she can mend it all? No, what she has done has irreversibly damaged MC and her relationship with him.
And not only on his side, do you imagine how much regret she has about not staying with him? In turning herself into what she became in college (thanks Mia btw)?

So I love Lacey, but if she was my woman she would spend a lot of time bent over my knee being spanked, the woman needs discipline.
If that doesn't work, caning is always the safe option.
Now that I think about it, she would probably also been dragged back by her ears the second day of freshman year.

Which brings me to the point I hate the most from MC, the inability to act unless he is forced to.

Maybe, with the grimm comments that she made in the king games is a possibility, but clashes with her super need of being with the MC. It would be her leaving own her own, fits with the hes not ready, but then that other part should never materialize or the games ends.

Still like my theory more. It would be delightfull to see and would kick the Mc when hes down. Like the simpsons meme "stop stop hes already dead (inside)"

By the way at this point our opinions are almost identical, come brother, join the hive mind. Chanting One of Us, One of Us.

We never diverged that much in our understanding of the story just some parts about Lacey.

The reasoning you assign to her intentions to hurt MC are, in my opinion wrong.
I'll give you an example, because it took Lacey almost one full act to admit it.

When she was doing the college stuff, since the beginning, she was doing it for several reasons:
She wanted to
She hated herself
She wanted to please Mia
She wanted to experience things
She wanted to say fuck off to her father

At the beginning she says she never thought her actions would hurt MC, at the end of the act we discover that she knew everything she was doing was hurting him.
She chose the instant gratification, which is in total line with addictive behaviour then we can sum up the brain damage, but the purpose was not to hurt him.

The situation with Damian is exactly the same, under K she went for the instant gratification and even if I think she was more conscious than she describes (could be a writing mistake) the initial intention was never to hurt MC.

The result of her action is devastating and actions speak louder than intentions, so I am not condoning the act at all.

Personally the only brotherhood I am proud of being a part of is the famous "Mia is a pimp".
You should get into that yourself.

Huh, well, that's something, Sounds like you and i played completely different games. the Prof needs to step in LOL

Have you played act 2? Because not everything that Diosvincenccio is saying is wrong.
It is actually stated and accepted as canon.

 

[AL.d]

You are correct; neither the developers nor the majority of players want a forced infidelity plotline. My point, however, is that we should still be prepared for surprises.
For example, I was personally surprised by the direction they took with Isaac's personality.

What I'm suggesting is that we avoid making hasty judgments and instead give the characters room to develop. At the beginning of the game, many of players thought Lucy was one of the worst characters ever portrayed, whereas now, her actions have become much more justified and understandable.
Let's be patient. The specific issue you replied to is a similar case—as of now, there is no definitive answer one way or the other.

I have no issue with forced ntr as long as it serves the plot. I'm playing games like this for the juicy drama after all. My issue is when the consequences that should be causing, are getting glossed over. Imo that happened with the Damian thing. Out of all the gripes MC has, that should be getting the aboslute spotlight. And it didn't.

I am one of them who thinks she is a bona fide narcissistic manipulator. But also the best written character in the game by far. Precisely because she is written in such a realistic way, she even has quite a few players arguing in her favor. Just like in real life, a truly good manipulator is one who's very hard to spot.

Realistic characters are extremely rare in games on here. Usually they are full with caricatures. It's no wonder this one causes so much discussion.

I wouldn't mind that, some stuff biting back.
I even wouldn't mind some more college stuff biting back, there is a LOT of unexplored shit there that is hinted during the party games.

I see both option as better than the spy games we have.



I do wanna see it! but yeah if it happens it is not gonna end well, so I guess it is off the table.
Maybe the other side is her on a lot of drugs?

Yeah you are right, MC does it by himself and she stops before admitting the fantasy (it was very clear tho, great hint to win the party game).

Btw I am developing an idea that the other side is super suicidal Lacey, how do you see it?

Same, I just don't get the spy games. It makes no sense to tell the players ntr is out of the picture going forward and yet have ntr villains as antagonists. The player knows they pose no threat and the plot loses its stakes.

 

[redoubt27]

Btw I am developing an idea that the other side is super suicidal Lacey, how do you see it?

I haven't developed a solid hypothesis, yet.
There could be plenty of clues, hints present, but I didn't come across enough information that ties much together to formulate anything remotely solid.
I have some guesses though...

Lacey's big secret that she can't hide much longer...
- I do see the possibility Lacey dies... whether by suicide or a terminal illness... Some of Lacey's actions resemble someone who knows they're going to die, and is doing all they can to "fix" the people, in this case one person, they really, truly care about (see Leap of Faith)... The person knowing death is coming does this so that the people can be happy, move on after they're gone. Lacey doesn't want to just "abandon" the MC again while he's not well, and she doesn't want to "leave" without the MC's love and forgiveness... However, there's also some clues, hints that cause me to seriously doubt this guess... But right now, it's one of my two best guesses...

- I saw some comments that Lacey may have a kid... Possible, but not seeing the indications or hints anywhere that this is the case. I could have certainly missed them though. The most likely kid possibility is that Lacey is pregnant... She can't hide that for long. And of course, the drama is/will be, is it the MC's, Damian's, or Morty's, if the reader went that far...

Other than that, I can only go into wild speculation territory... She has a twin. She's not really Lacey, a doppelganger or twin... You know, wild card crazy twists that come out of no where...

Other than Lacey's big secret, who is Monster?
- My best guess, Christine is my most likely (there was a subtle hint that I'm trying to locate again...lol **add** found it, Monster says to MC you're "the glue that holds it all together", Christine, when talking about the "crew" with MC says...,"How did we put it...""you're the glue that holds the crew together.") Jeanette is second (working alone or with Christine), given their IT backgrounds. If they aren't alone on it, they are certainly working closely with one of the "crew", or with all of them...
- It could also be Mia, she referred to herself as a monster quite a bit, and she could be using Christine to relay messages to the MC indirectly, so whoever (likely Barty, could be Jared, too) is manipulating Mia doesn't catch on or "win".

Any way, that's what's swirling around in my head.
I'm remaining flexible on this story going forward, not developing expectations or anything, but very much looking forward to see how this plays out...

 

[Sayora]

I want to begin by making it clear that I don't dislike Lacey in the slightest; my first post today was, in fact, in her defense

Like you, I would prefer the story not to head in that direction, and I pay very close attention to the dialogue. For instance, when Keily brought up the subject of wife sharing to Lacey late in Act 2, Lacey's response was unequivocal: she stated that it was fundamentally wrong and something she would never propose to MC

I understand how difficult my question was and although you did not answer directly I most likely and judging by the tone of your posts know your answer

And before I continue I want to say I am not trying to convince you, everyone has the right to their own opinion.

Now about your arguments
The statement Has MC ever definitively decided to leave Lucy and communicated that to her?

He did not decide, but he thought about it many times in moments when he was in pain and as far as I remember I even mentioned this possibility once in a conversation with her
-
One might perceive Lucy as selfish, but not when it comes to MC. It has been proven that she loves him more than herself.
Initially, she married MC believing her past would remain secret. When it was exposed, her attempts to justify herself were driven less by self-preservation and more by a deep desire to heal his broken heart and soul. She is still committed to helping him recover. Consider all her actions: the various "husband sharing" arrangements, the week-long trip, the event at the bar—every step she takes, every single moment, is focused exclusively on MC's healing.

If she were selfish when it comes to MC, she wouldn't be sharing him with other women; that is the opposite of a selfish act.

I'll start from the end
sharing for her is not a manifestation of love for him but a perverted form of hurting herself, which for her seems to be a sexual fetish acquired in college and she said it herself and has proven it in practice more than once (red lingerie ding)
but for a loving MC from her of course there is always a positive explanation
all the statements above you take based only on her words and the words of her friends who are no less MC susceptible to manipulation by lacey, in practice All of the above that she did only led to an emotional breakdown of MC and hurt him more and more

now my arguments

The character Diana most closely described lacey's actions and FMC herself confirmed her accusations, the motives are different but the implementation is the same

I don't consider lacey a villain, perhaps she does it subconsciously given her acquired baggage

but I think that she is radioactive and the longer she is near MC the faster he will lose himself and fall for her shit
In love he is naive like a baby and already cucked by her ... darn i already furious/
she just want to rebuild him for herself it not for him it just for her
and most importantly, if she so much in love with him and understand the scale and consequences of the damage she should just disappear as she has done before.
I think with horror what other perverted vile crap she will offer him as a type of treatment and then damien will seem like child's play

 

[Chaoticjustice]

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