AL.d

Engaged Member
Sep 26, 2016
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The problem that is recurrent here that you have is the lack willingness to put yourself in another's perspective, you say the MC should have been playing and shit, yea its all clear and obvious from the perspective of a fucking adult, but from his perspective at the time you refuse to understand he did the best he could, yea he couldn't magically wish away the abuse Lacey suffered, how quaint, he was a little kid, expecting them to be rational and enlightened with the wisdom of full grown adults is ridiculous. By the time he was himself an adult he was already indoctrinated in this way of living, expecting him to magically turn into a healthy fully formed adult is senseless.



How much therapy do you think it take to do away with every singular issues the MC has? Over a decade, this story isn't going to be that long, so you magically expecting him to in months maybe be fully healed from a lifetime of psychological issues is insanity, he is a broken man, and he is still going to be fucked up by the entire time until this game end, so expecting a happy ending for him to be based on the perspective of him being able to achieve a state of fully mentally healthy individual is stupid, all he'll be able to get by the time this game end is whatever. That is without considering the fact his issues began being formed as a 6 years old, realistically he is very likely to die of old age and still suffer from mental issues, their is no magical solution to do away with his problems.

Empathy is more than just a word, its a capacity to feel what others feel, including fictional characters, I get the impression alot of you lack complete sense of empathy, you project your perspective, your desires on the characters and refuse to acknowledge the perspective and desires of the characters themselves, you judge them all from your perspective, but never from their perspective. The major recurrent issues is so many of you can't understand how the MC think and feel, just how you'd feel in his shoes without his baggage and what you'd want for yourself under such circumstances.

Now you hold me in derision for me saying the MC will kill himself if he end up alone, because you wouldn't do so, because you refuse to understand how he'd feel after ending up alone. Right now he need someone at his side, for many years even with ongoing therapy within that reality he'll need someone at his side, its not up to you to declare he won't, its fact. If you think extremely deep mental issues are resolved in a snap, you haven't studied psychology in College, unlike me. Now its been a long time, and it was more along the line of a few classes on the side, but I clearly understand the problematic of mental issues better than you do if you expect before what could be reasonably believed to be the timeframe of this game for the MC's issues to be solved.

My mother suffered abuse as a child and teen, and she is still fucked up today by it, in her 60s, over 40 years later, the chances the MC will have attained a point of being mentally healthy before he dies are less than certain even with regular therapy over decades. One of the factors is, how willing is he even of moving on from his co-dependency? The answer doesn't look great, he might know he suffer from it, but would be willing to move on from it if it meant it could be hurting some he care about? Doubtful.
I will ignore your assumptions about what I have studied and what I haven't, but I will note they are amusing.

You started with game logic and why realistic standards shouldn't apply to what the dev wants to do with the characters. Then you proceed to tell me it can't be done because it needs years. Well guess what doc, every mental issue portrayed here takes years, decades even to tackle. Lacey shows most signs of a vulnerable narcissist (and the game even calls her that outright) on top of any other issues she has. But the game also liked to pretend she is healing/getting better from act 2 and onwards. In a few months and a couple visits to a therapist. To whom she isn't even telling things that would be considered setbacks. It's pretty obvious that if any healing is to be shown it has to be either sped up or use time skips. It's a game after all. I would assume you'd have spotted the liberties dev is taking with these things when they serve his direction.

Again feel free to advocate for toxic relationships because it's the easy way doc, I'm just not buying.
 

Lady Lydia

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Sep 18, 2019
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I will ignore your assumptions about what I have studied and what I haven't, but I will note they are amusing.

You started with game logic and why realistic standards shouldn't apply to what the dev wants to do with the characters. Then you proceed to tell me it can't be done because it needs years. Well guess what doc, every mental issue portrayed here takes years, decades even to tackle. Lacey shows most signs of a vulnerable narcissist (and the game even calls her that outright) on top of any other issues she has. But the game also liked to pretend she is healing/getting better from act 2 and onwards. In a few months and a couple visits to a therapist. To whom she isn't even telling things that would be considered setbacks. It's pretty obvious that if any healing is to be shown it has to be either sped up or use time skips. It's a game after all. I would assume you'd have spotted the liberties dev is taking with these things when they serve his direction.

Again feel free to advocate for toxic relationships because it's the easy way doc, I'm just not buying.
Except its clear that Lacey isn't getting better, from Act 2 onward, some people here might claim she show clear progress, but she also show she has clearly still a ton of issues, even if she does show progress, progress is by no mean having gotten over 90% of her issues, and it doesn't take in consideration her just bullshitting others into believing she has progressed.

Again the Dev take liberties but none of those liberties have been in the optic of really solving issues but merely creating them, so you expecting at the end the Dev to just give you your ideal ending isn't going to happen. Next the Dev clearly has its own biases, he is biased heavily toward Lacey, to the point he invented a triple crutch to justify why the MC couldn't leave Lacey, if he leave she'll die, he is dependent on her heavily and will likely kill himself if he leave her, and she will never leave him even if she stop loving him. So if he can't leave, and she can't leave, guess what, no one is going anywhere. You lot keep dreaming of the MC leaving her under your terms, but again, the MC need a replacement crutch to even begin to consider leaving her, but if he did he'd have to be willing for her to die, which is questionable, so even if he was healed of his co-dependency you assume he'll just stop feeling anything for her and be totally willing to let her die over it, which is not happening.

Now sure you can claim he just did at the end of Act 3, after hallucinating that she was going to divorce him and leave, thus he can assume she would be safe to leave now, but the moment he'll be aware it was all in his head he'll run back to her.

Look I am not an advocate for toxic relationships, but getting out of one is one thing, but if their is a super massive amount of psychological issues associated with it, its different. Heard about even people that were abused by their parents are willing to overlook it 'because they are their parents', again you lack total empathy, any capability to put yourself in somebody else's shoes and purely judge everything from your ivory tower where your mindset is absolute in its validity.
 

AL.d

Engaged Member
Sep 26, 2016
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Except its clear that Lacey isn't getting better, from Act 2 onward, some people here might claim she show clear progress, but she also show she has clearly still a ton of issues, even if she does show progress, progress is by no mean having gotten over 90% of her issues, and it doesn't take in consideration her just bullshitting others into believing she has progressed.

Again the Dev take liberties but none of those liberties have been in the optic of really solving issues but merely creating them, so you expecting at the end the Dev to just give you your ideal ending isn't going to happen. Next the Dev clearly has its own biases, he is biased heavily toward Lacey, to the point he invented a triple crutch to justify why the MC couldn't leave Lacey, if he leave she'll die, he is dependent on her heavily and will likely kill himself if he leave her, and she will never leave him even if she stop loving him. So if he can't leave, and she can't leave, guess what, no one is going anywhere. You lot keep dreaming of the MC leaving her under your terms, but again, the MC need a replacement crutch to even begin to consider leaving her, but if he did he'd have to be willing for her to die, which is questionable, so even if he was healed of his co-dependency you assume he'll just stop feeling anything for her and be totally willing to let her die over it, which is not happening.

Now sure you can claim he just did at the end of Act 3, after hallucinating that she was going to divorce him and leave, thus he can assume she would be safe to leave now, but the moment he'll be aware it was all in his head he'll run back to her.

Look I am not an advocate for toxic relationships, but getting out of one is one thing, but if their is a super massive amount of psychological issues associated with it, its different. Heard about even people that were abused by their parents are willing to overlook it 'because they are their parents', again you lack total empathy, any capability to put yourself in somebody else's shoes and purely judge everything from your ivory tower where your mindset is absolute in its validity.
You really love your assumptions, don't you? I'm not going to trauma dump but I will say, I really wish I was speaking from an ivory tower, as someone who never had any experience of a relationship with some similarities to the one portrayed here.

In the previous page I said I consider Lacey the best written character by far. The fact that I consider my most disliked character in the game by far, also the most realistic (for the site's standards), well written and pretty much the main reason I got interested in this, should have given you a hint. I guess your immense empathy powers are having a hiccup.

Your line about dev biases is the only thing you got right in all this.
 

JEER0X

Active Member
Sep 17, 2019
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Lady Lydia why do you keep telling people to leave or not play the game? why can't they have an opinion or feelings for certain people and actions? who are you to judge?

A few of your points are wrong but i will only bring one up for now, cause honestly i can see you might of skipped a lot of the game, Lacey did infact have feelings for more then just the MC, while she did infact deny it at first, she later admitted to having some for Issac for example, and Stephan she fucked 14 times so that should tell you something.
 

Pugthulhu

Member
Oct 19, 2020
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Like I said previously I think the problem is what define NTR?
With all the NTR talk and attempt to categorize this game.
Let's look at NTR from a different angle in this game.
Lacey was in a "relationship" with the MC and she was corrupted by another person. Her Dad. The MC was cucked (in a way) as he was not allowed to develop a loving relationship with her because of the corruption from her Dad. He was denied physical contact while her corrupter was not. He was denied emotional contact with her because of the effects of the corruption. This corruption got to the point where she was taken away from the MC because of it.

The story is not so much about NTR happening to the characters as much as it has already happened to them and they are trying to recover from it.
 

slutseekerm

Newbie
Aug 7, 2021
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105
this game is so weird. it was quite hot until the darmian part. at that point it became obvious that lacey has zero redeeming qualities, mia is basically a demon, and the mc is pathologically obsessed with lacey and also incredibly pathetic.

it feels like the game should've ended after the darmian thing with him leaving her and moving to a new city. everything after just feels like a struggle session.

it's not even hot or intriguing anymore due to how pathetic and disgusting it is.

maybe this type of game is not for me. i enjoy games that play on the teasing and fantasy elements of ntr instead of all the ugly and negative parts.

it conjures the same feelings i had when watching requiem for a dream.
 

JEER0X

Active Member
Sep 17, 2019
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this game is so weird. it was quite hot until the darmian part. at that point it became obvious that lacey has zero redeeming qualities, mia is basically a demon, and the mc is pathologically obsessed with lacey and also incredibly pathetic.

it feels like the game should've ended after the darmian thing with him leaving her and moving to a new city. everything after just feels like a struggle session.

it's not even hot or intriguing anymore due to how pathetic and disgusting it is.

maybe this type of game is not for me. i enjoy games that play on the teasing and fantasy elements of ntr instead of all the ugly and negative parts.

it conjures the same feelings i had when watching requiem for a dream.
This game is rough on the ole feelings, defiantly not for everyone but if you can get past the first act without punching your monitor i think you can handle the 2nd and 3rd act, just know it is rough, i have the tendency to put myself in the Mc's shoes on every game i play so i get to attached to them
 
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this game is so weird. it was quite hot until the darmian part. at that point it became obvious that lacey has zero redeeming qualities, mia is basically a demon, and the mc is pathologically obsessed with lacey and also incredibly pathetic.

it feels like the game should've ended after the darmian thing with him leaving her and moving to a new city. everything after just feels like a struggle session.

it's not even hot or intriguing anymore due to how pathetic and disgusting it is.

maybe this type of game is not for me. i enjoy games that play on the teasing and fantasy elements of ntr instead of all the ugly and negative parts.

it conjures the same feelings i had when watching requiem for a dream.
The drama is the point. If it ended after Damian, it would be standard NTR misery porn. Also, if you are thinking in terms of "That is hot", you might be missing the point, this isn't a FAP kink story, more of a "dive into the emotional conflict of the characters as it concerns NTR concepts".
 

telly1712

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Sep 21, 2024
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MC is selling Lacey during the poker event as "the perfect slut and most depraved party favor you can think off - serving willingly as many men you want"... isnt this already a big step towards the "intended" corruption of our "poor" MC ? He is literally and intentionally risking to whore her out in that moment...surprisingly using all attributes he hated related to her college slut period and which are giving him nightmares...interesting...
 
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Lady Lydia

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Lady Lydia why do you keep telling people to leave or not play the game? why can't they have an opinion or feelings for certain people and actions? who are you to judge?

A few of your points are wrong but i will only bring one up for now, cause honestly i can see you might of skipped a lot of the game, Lacey did infact have feelings for more then just the MC, while she did infact deny it at first, she later admitted to having some for Issac for example, and Stephan she fucked 14 times so that should tell you something.
The reason I say some people should leave was explained, some people clearly seem to hate every characters in the game, so whats the point of sticking around? Whats the point of sticking around if they systematically complain every characters are horrible and they'd wish they suffer and die? Outside of some form of masochism I can't understand why someone would stick around if they hate everything about the game. Which is why I am saying they should leave, whats the point to spend their time complain and hatefully rant about just about every characters.

If someone hate both Lacey & the MC, fundamentally this story isn't for them, to stick around to curse their existence continually is madness. I find it insanely creepy to see people genuinely hate fictional characters and to just have nothing good to say but to but maniacally rant about them non-stop.
 

Lady Lydia

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With all the NTR talk and attempt to categorize this game.
Let's look at NTR from a different angle in this game.
Lacey was in a "relationship" with the MC and she was corrupted by another person. Her Dad. The MC was cucked (in a way) as he was not allowed to develop a loving relationship with her because of the corruption from her Dad. He was denied physical contact while her corrupter was not. He was denied emotional contact with her because of the effects of the corruption. This corruption got to the point where she was taken away from the MC because of it.

The story is not so much about NTR happening to the characters as much as it has already happened to them and they are trying to recover from it.
Except that isn't how it work, if anything it would be in a sense Netori, Lacey was in a relationship with her dad long before the MC, and the MC has tried to steal her away from her dad in a sense. The MC anyhow was the 'other guy' in Lacey's life as a child, not her main relationship. He ultimately became the character that is suffered Netorare but effectively as a teen he was able to cause Lacey to leave her dad, effectively being the Netori Bull. Sure she left him too, like it happen in some NTR stories, the corrupted girl not ending with the guy that effectively stole her. It became a NTR story when after the MC did become her main relationship and she ended up cheating on him.
 
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Sayora

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Oct 17, 2017
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Fuck, I'm sad.

Today I decided to check out Act 3 and, for the full experience, started from the beginning.

I knew Demian was coming, but I was mentally prepared for it, but I didn't even get to it—I'm fucking stuck on the scene where MC and Lacey first meet after her return.

MC asked the fucking only question: "How many boyfriends have you had in 4 years?"
And that fucking human-shaped bitch answered without blinking an eye: "Zero. I haven't had a single boyfriend."

I know this has already been discussed, but for some reason, that moment brought me such negative emotions that I didn't want to continue.

After a passionate speech about love until the grave and a story about what she's willing to do for him,
he lies on the first and only question.

Fuck her.

I've read enough for today.

I can only say one thing: a relationship that began and was built on lies cannot be fixed by any therapy; it's a dead end from the start.
 
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radical686

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Nov 30, 2018
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I'm unsure if the Dev follows this, but I was redoing the game and notice an error. When Christine gives the MC a massage in the quiet room at work for the first time, sometimes she is identified as Mia.
 

Lady Lydia

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You really love your assumptions, don't you? I'm not going to trauma dump but I will say, I really wish I was speaking from an ivory tower, as someone who never had any experience of a relationship with some similarities to the one portrayed here.

In the previous page I said I consider Lacey the best written character by far. The fact that I consider my most disliked character in the game by far, also the most realistic (for the site's standards), well written and pretty much the main reason I got interested in this, should have given you a hint. I guess your immense empathy powers are having a hiccup.

Your line about dev biases is the only thing you got right in all this.
You liking how Lacey is written yet hating her as a character doesn't mean you have empathy, empathy is about feeling what the characters feel, appreciation for how well you consider a character to being written doesn't denote empathy. Also even if you both like and hate Lacey, yet you refuse to understand the situation the MC is what I am calling a lack of empathy.

You refuse to understand that when this game is going to end the timeframe we can expect isn't one which would actually have allowed the MC to went thru the full process of therapy he'd need to leave this toxic relationship in a healthy manner for himself. He is going to be still a serious mess at the end of this game, we are 3 Acts in and nobody can say he has gotten any better, he keep getting worst, Hell he just had a full mental breakdown in the 3rd Act, you think this is going to be solved in a snap, it won't.

My mother went thru a psychosis several yars ago and she is still affected deeply by it, whatever progress the therapy might have helped along for him is going to be destroyed and he is going to be even further down the path of damage than he was, recovery even longer.

The Dev has systematically caused the MC trauma and damage thru 3 Acts, which add on all the damage he had from his entire childhood, teenage years and College years to recover from, those 3 Acts remaining will never solve all of this. Unless he goes thru the fictional procedure known as 'Death of Personality' you can forget about him being fixed in any reasonable timeframe relative to this story's timeframe.
 

slutseekerm

Newbie
Aug 7, 2021
24
73
105
The drama is the point. If it ended after Damian, it would be standard NTR misery porn. Also, if you are thinking in terms of "That is hot", you might be missing the point, this isn't a FAP kink story, more of a "dive into the emotional conflict of the characters as it concerns NTR concepts".
yeah, i wasn't expecting something that deals with all the emotions and fallout of ntr. i was just looking for the thrill of fantasy. it's like the difference between LOTR and frieren. both are set in a high fantasy realm but LOTR is more focused on the action/adventure of beating the big bad, while frieren focuses on the emotional side of what happens after you've defeated the big bad.

i should've heeded the content warning at the beginning of the game but developers always put those in that i've learned to ignore them. it's like the california cancer labels on everything.
 

JEER0X

Active Member
Sep 17, 2019
520
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The reason I say some people should leave was explained, some people clearly seem to hate every characters in the game, so whats the point of sticking around? Whats the point of sticking around if they systematically complain every characters are horrible and they'd wish they suffer and die? Outside of some form of masochism I can't understand why someone would stick around if they hate everything about the game. Which is why I am saying they should leave, whats the point to spend their time complain and hatefully rant about just about every characters.

If someone hate both Lacey & the MC, fundamentally this story isn't for them, to stick around to curse their existence continually is madness. I find it insanely creepy to see people genuinely hate fictional characters and to just have nothing good to say but to but maniacally rant about them non-stop.
i'll be real the game is designed for you to hate many of the characters, they are all crazy and do stupid shit to each other either to benefit themselves or to hurt someone else.

Mia for one is pure garbage for what she has done

Isaac used to be trash as he mocked and belittled the MC online because he couldn't get lacey again (i still don't like him tbh)
but Deviant says Prof. changed his character or something to be "good" now

barty is garbage

Will is Garbage

Abby is garbage and a clown (hehe)

Christine was garbage but has since redeemed herself

Stephan is being Garbage atm

Veronica was being garbage for a bit with the Jared shit happening ( still concerned with her for hiring all these ex lovers of Laceys its weird)

Anna is Anna but she has covered for and took laceys side to many times for my liking since she was Mc's friend i find that weird

Cal is garbage

Lorenzo is just pathetic

Lacey is garbage for what she's done

some would argue MC is Garbage i personally feel like he is the way he is cause Lacey but there is many here who dislike him

Jeanette.... i can't remember if she did anything bad to the couple or not honestly she's not memorable to me

so there is maybe a handful of people who seem to be Good
Bella, Bradley, Dianne, Jamie, Bethany, Yue and Kelly
 

Pugthulhu

Member
Oct 19, 2020
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Except that isn't how it work, if anything it would be in a sense Netori, Lacey was in a relationship with her dad long before the MC, and the MC has tried to steal her away from her dad in a sense. The MC anyhow was the 'other guy' in Lacey's life as a child, not her main relationship. He ultimately became the character that is suffered Netorare but effectively as a teen he was able to cause Lacey to leave her dad, effectively being the Netori Bull. Sure she left him too, like it happen in some NTR stories, the corrupted girl not ending with the guy that effectively stole her. It became a NTR story when after the MC did become her main relationship and she ended up cheating on him.
I'm not sure I would be willing to try to tell a rape victim that they are in a relationship with the person raping them. Whether or not Lacey ever considered herself in a relationship with the MC in school, he certainly did. And he had that relationship taken from him as a direct result of her Dad. Who was first doesn't matter. At this point we are just arguing semantics.
 

JEER0X

Active Member
Sep 17, 2019
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Except that isn't how it work, if anything it would be in a sense Netori, Lacey was in a relationship with her dad long before the MC, and the MC has tried to steal her away from her dad in a sense. The MC anyhow was the 'other guy' in Lacey's life as a child, not her main relationship. He ultimately became the character that is suffered Netorare but effectively as a teen he was able to cause Lacey to leave her dad, effectively being the Netori Bull. Sure she left him too, like it happen in some NTR stories, the corrupted girl not ending with the guy that effectively stole her. It became a NTR story when after the MC did become her main relationship and she ended up cheating on him.
Did you really just say "in a relationship with her dad?" wtf?

i don't think you know how Molestation and abuse works.

the MC didn't love lacey like that right away, He was just a friend and tried to save her as best he could as a child that was impossible, well unless they went to the police but i guess they didn't.

honestly think this post of yours should be deleted its just plain wrong and you have a horrible way of trying to explain your thought on NTR and NTS. it's pretty disgusting tbh i didn't see it till the guy above me replied wow dude
 

radical686

Active Member
Nov 30, 2018
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Except its clear that Lacey isn't getting better, from Act 2 onward, some people here might claim she show clear progress, but she also show she has clearly still a ton of issues, even if she does show progress, progress is by no mean having gotten over 90% of her issues, and it doesn't take in consideration her just bullshitting others into believing she has progressed.

Again the Dev take liberties but none of those liberties have been in the optic of really solving issues but merely creating them, so you expecting at the end the Dev to just give you your ideal ending isn't going to happen. Next the Dev clearly has its own biases, he is biased heavily toward Lacey, to the point he invented a triple crutch to justify why the MC couldn't leave Lacey, if he leave she'll die, he is dependent on her heavily and will likely kill himself if he leave her, and she will never leave him even if she stop loving him. So if he can't leave, and she can't leave, guess what, no one is going anywhere. You lot keep dreaming of the MC leaving her under your terms, but again, the MC need a replacement crutch to even begin to consider leaving her, but if he did he'd have to be willing for her to die, which is questionable, so even if he was healed of his co-dependency you assume he'll just stop feeling anything for her and be totally willing to let her die over it, which is not happening.

Now sure you can claim he just did at the end of Act 3, after hallucinating that she was going to divorce him and leave, thus he can assume she would be safe to leave now, but the moment he'll be aware it was all in his head he'll run back to her.

Look I am not an advocate for toxic relationships, but getting out of one is one thing, but if their is a super massive amount of psychological issues associated with it, its different. Heard about even people that were abused by their parents are willing to overlook it 'because they are their parents', again you lack total empathy, any capability to put yourself in somebody else's shoes and purely judge everything from your ivory tower where your mindset is absolute in its validity.
I disagree. I think she has progressed, even in Act 3. She still has major issues, the kind that would break up many couples (I'll get to that in a sec) but the whole scene where he was listening in on her conversation with Lorenzo, Marcus, and Stephen showed a lot of growth on her part. And the fact that she is getting better at recognizing when men are manipulating her (Will, later in the episode) is progess too.

I agree with some of what you have said in other posts. The Vegas incidents suggest she still has some major problems that would undermine a normal relationship. I personally think this story has evolved into a story about codependency, how toxic it can be, and how there is no easy answer to breaking the cycle. If people aren't interested in that psychological narrative development, then I agree some should give up on this game. Anyone that knows how toxic codependent realtionships can be (As a child I was adjacent to one--it damages everyone around them) will have a better understanding of where the Dev is going with this.

As for the ending of Act 3, I think we'll find out that he actually did view the Vegas BDSM video, and it started the dissasociative episode that led to him mentally create a reality that allowed him to leave.

He probably viewed it, saw it as way more than just cringy (him as extraneous and someone that she would eventually abandon), his dissasociated personality then told Abby he deleted it (giving the appearence of progress), then fabricated in his mind a Lacey that gave him a way out of his codependent relationship (temporarally, since it still doesn't solve the main problem with his codependency). It's entirely possible he never even saw her at Veronica's home. This is the dissasociative break the therapist was worried about and why she recommended Partial Hospitalization Program.

I do agree that he has made no progess in his own mental health. IRL, a dissasociative episode like this is very serious. Some people end up living on the streets, mentally broken and a serious danger to themselves with this kind of personality break. I have no idea where the Dev will go with this next, but it is clear that part of him wants out of the relationship like any normal person would (he just can't because of the part of his brain that is still influenced by his serious problem with codependency). It is a form of PTSD.
 
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